Will Pentax use the 43 MP Sony APC sensor for the next K-3?

**Rondec** · 09-09-2021, 04:33 PM

I don't see a K-3 sequel coming for at least three years. So, it is certainly possible the Pentax would go with a sensor like this, but there will be others that come out in the meantime as well.

I will say that 40-ish megapixels on APS-C does feel like you would get into diffraction territory pretty quickly. A lens like the DA 15 limited, which really benefits from stopping down to f8, might not be able to churn out much extra resolution at the aperture on sensor this dense.

**RobA_Oz** · 09-09-2021, 04:43 PM

I wonder if that new sensor might sooner find a home in the GR range. The fact of a fixed lens in the GR means that it could be specifically designed to match the sensor’s capabilities, if the present (including the new 21.6mm lens in the GRiiix) optics aren’t up to it – I have no idea if they are or not.

On the other hand, would it be wasted on the GR, given the “street camera” marketing image, or would it develop new market niches for it?

ncallender · 09-09-2021, 05:36 PM

I don't love the idea of a 43mp APSC sensor. But then again I would have to try it to really know. I would rather have a 43mp full frame sensor in a camera a little bit faster than a K1.

ZombieArmy · 09-09-2021, 06:06 PM

Why in the world would I want an APSC camera above 24/26 MP? If I needed more resolution I'd be buying a bigger format. Samsung figured out this problem years ago and actually reduced the megapickles on their phones.

When I shoot with the 16 MP K-5IIs or the K-01 I don't think I've ever thought to myself "wow I really wish this had 3x the resolution".

**cdd29** · 09-09-2021, 07:25 PM

the 43mp sensor is the logical step for the next incursion of the K1.

**RobA_Oz** · 09-09-2021, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

Why in the world would I want an APSC camera above 24/26 MP? If I needed more resolution I'd be buying a bigger format. Samsung figured out this problem years ago and actually reduced the megapickles on their phones.

When I shoot with the 16 MP K-5IIs or the K-01 I don't think I've ever thought to myself "wow I really wish this had 3x the resolution".

It’s really a matter of what’s available at which price when a new model is developed. So far, we’ve had 6.2, 10, 14, 16 and 24 MP in Pentax APS-C bodies. Ricoh’s a price taker when it comes to their camera body components.

repaap · 09-09-2021, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Do tell? I have not kept up with first person accounts from former K-3 owners that have upgraded. Do you remember which lenses did not make the grade? I would not have expected any significant optical performance barrier with such a small increase in resolution.

Steve

I’m not saying that it is significant difference. I’m just looking pictures side to side, which has been taken with different lenses and this is where I do notice that some older ones are not sufficient anymore when I did not have this problem with K-3. That said, I did not have DFA15-30 or *70-200 back then. Even DFA 28-105 when stopped down does give to me nice results.

Some older lenses I’ll stop using all together.

That’s all.

---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 08:45 ----------

Originally posted by reh321

Only if we ‘play the game’.

When I got my K-30, one day I used the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 “kit lens” which I had used to take Kodachrome 25 pictures with my “Super Program” ‘back in the day’. Without even pixel peeking, I could see that the results were sharper than I had ever gotten with film. I didn’t continue to use it, because I had switched to auto focus for a good reason, but I did note the results.

I know that I’m not going to play that game. Not until I really have no choice

**UncleVanya** · 09-10-2021, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

It’s really a matter of what’s available at which price when a new model is developed. So far, we’ve had 6.2, 10, 14, 16 and 24 MP in Pentax APS-C bodies. Ricoh’s a price taker when it comes to their camera body components.

Don’t forget 26mp (k3iii)!

Also there’s very little higher than 24mp anyway. Even bleeding edge vendors like Sony haven’t jumped in with apsc bodies with high megapixels.

normhead · 09-10-2021, 06:03 AM

What is the rush to get better than 26 MP on APS-c? When you consider that The D850 and K-3 images are not so different, it's definitely not a matter of need. Since 16 MP, the number of MP has been all about marketing. Little else.

**RobA_Oz** · 09-10-2021, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Don’t forget 26mp (k3iii)!

Also there’s very little higher than 24mp anyway. Even bleeding edge vendors like Sony haven’t jumped in with apsc bodies with high megapixels.

Silly me! I've even got one.

Anyway, we'll get what we're given, and maybe the K-3iv will have that 43MP sensor, because by then (?another 3, 4 or 5 years?) that'll be what's on offer at the right price.

**UncleVanya** · 09-10-2021, 07:08 AM - **2 Likes**

What would really be awesome would be a programmable color filter array. Then quasi-x-trans (by rapid shots with cfa changes), bayer, quad-bayer, and monochrome would be available at the touch of a button.

---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 10:32 AM ----------

An example of rudimentary prototype and several ideas in this area… already out there:

https://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/11Sig/Papers/c96-f96_2-a482-paper-v2.pdf

**GregL564** · 09-10-2021, 09:43 AM

Technology advances with time. We will know for certain at some point next year whether and how well Sony and Fuji have addressed the technical issues and tradeoffs of putting more MP in a small sensor. I do find a higher MP camera attractive for all the reasons higher MP cameras exist--ability to enlarge and crop. I like the idea of a higher MP small sensor because it reduces the size and weight of lenses. I don't expect Pentax to release another APC camera soon but the options and possibilities for the next generation certainly appear to be expanding.

Wheatfield · 09-10-2021, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by cdd29

the 43mp sensor is the logical step for the next incursion of the K1.

I'm betting closer to a 50% increase in resolution and something in the 50+ mp range for a K1-3

**luftfluss** · 09-10-2021, 08:26 PM

If there is a K-1 III announced second half next year, I think the Sony 61MP sensor is a good bet, along with a $3k USD price.

**Rondec** · 09-11-2021, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

What would really be awesome would be a programmable color filter array. Then quasi-x-trans (by rapid shots with cfa changes), bayer, quad-bayer, and monochrome would be available at the touch of a button.

---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 10:32 AM ----------

An example of rudimentary prototype and several ideas in this area… already out there:

https://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/11Sig/Papers/c96-f96_2-a482-paper-v2.pdf

I would prefer something more like Foveon tech, but with better performance.

09-10-2021, 07:08 AM - 2 Likes	#41
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,398	What would really be awesome would be a programmable color filter array. Then quasi-x-trans (by rapid shots with cfa changes), bayer, quad-bayer, and monochrome would be available at the touch of a button. ---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 10:32 AM ---------- An example of rudimentary prototype and several ideas in this area… already out there: https://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/11Sig/Papers/c96-f96_2-a482-paper-v2.pdf Last edited by UncleVanya; 09-10-2021 at 07:33 AM.

09-10-2021, 09:43 AM	#42
GregL564 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2018 Photos: Albums Posts: 80 Original Poster	Technology advances with time. We will know for certain at some point next year whether and how well Sony and Fuji have addressed the technical issues and tradeoffs of putting more MP in a small sensor. I do find a higher MP camera attractive for all the reasons higher MP cameras exist--ability to enlarge and crop. I like the idea of a higher MP small sensor because it reduces the size and weight of lenses. I don't expect Pentax to release another APC camera soon but the options and possibilities for the next generation certainly appear to be expanding. Last edited by GregL564; 09-11-2021 at 05:20 AM.

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09-09-2021, 04:33 PM	#31
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	I don't see a K-3 sequel coming for at least three years. So, it is certainly possible the Pentax would go with a sensor like this, but there will be others that come out in the meantime as well. I will say that 40-ish megapixels on APS-C does feel like you would get into diffraction territory pretty quickly. A lens like the DA 15 limited, which really benefits from stopping down to f8, might not be able to churn out much extra resolution at the aperture on sensor this dense.

09-09-2021, 04:43 PM	#32
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	I wonder if that new sensor might sooner find a home in the GR range. The fact of a fixed lens in the GR means that it could be specifically designed to match the sensor’s capabilities, if the present (including the new 21.6mm lens in the GRiiix) optics aren’t up to it – I have no idea if they are or not. On the other hand, would it be wasted on the GR, given the “street camera” marketing image, or would it develop new market niches for it?

09-09-2021, 05:36 PM	#33
ncallender Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 128	I don't love the idea of a 43mp APSC sensor. But then again I would have to try it to really know. I would rather have a 43mp full frame sensor in a camera a little bit faster than a K1.

09-09-2021, 06:06 PM	#34
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Why in the world would I want an APSC camera above 24/26 MP? If I needed more resolution I'd be buying a bigger format. Samsung figured out this problem years ago and actually reduced the megapickles on their phones. When I shoot with the 16 MP K-5IIs or the K-01 I don't think I've ever thought to myself "wow I really wish this had 3x the resolution".

09-09-2021, 07:25 PM	#35
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	the 43mp sensor is the logical step for the next incursion of the K1.

09-09-2021, 09:59 PM	#36
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	Originally posted by ZombieArmy Why in the world would I want an APSC camera above 24/26 MP? If I needed more resolution I'd be buying a bigger format. Samsung figured out this problem years ago and actually reduced the megapickles on their phones. When I shoot with the 16 MP K-5IIs or the K-01 I don't think I've ever thought to myself "wow I really wish this had 3x the resolution". It’s really a matter of what’s available at which price when a new model is developed. So far, we’ve had 6.2, 10, 14, 16 and 24 MP in Pentax APS-C bodies. Ricoh’s a price taker when it comes to their camera body components.

09-09-2021, 10:43 PM	#37
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by stevebrot Do tell? I have not kept up with first person accounts from former K-3 owners that have upgraded. Do you remember which lenses did not make the grade? I would not have expected any significant optical performance barrier with such a small increase in resolution. Steve I’m not saying that it is significant difference. I’m just looking pictures side to side, which has been taken with different lenses and this is where I do notice that some older ones are not sufficient anymore when I did not have this problem with K-3. That said, I did not have DFA15-30 or *70-200 back then. Even DFA 28-105 when stopped down does give to me nice results. Some older lenses I’ll stop using all together. That’s all. ---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 08:45 ---------- Originally posted by reh321 Only if we ‘play the game’. When I got my K-30, one day I used the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 “kit lens” which I had used to take Kodachrome 25 pictures with my “Super Program” ‘back in the day’. Without even pixel peeking, I could see that the results were sharper than I had ever gotten with film. I didn’t continue to use it, because I had switched to auto focus for a good reason, but I did note the results. I know that I’m not going to play that game. Not until I really have no choice

09-10-2021, 05:35 AM	#38
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,398	Originally posted by RobA_Oz It’s really a matter of what’s available at which price when a new model is developed. So far, we’ve had 6.2, 10, 14, 16 and 24 MP in Pentax APS-C bodies. Ricoh’s a price taker when it comes to their camera body components. Don’t forget 26mp (k3iii)! Also there’s very little higher than 24mp anyway. Even bleeding edge vendors like Sony haven’t jumped in with apsc bodies with high megapixels.

09-10-2021, 06:03 AM	#39
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	What is the rush to get better than 26 MP on APS-c? When you consider that The D850 and K-3 images are not so different, it's definitely not a matter of need. Since 16 MP, the number of MP has been all about marketing. Little else.

09-10-2021, 06:43 AM	#40
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	Originally posted by UncleVanya Don’t forget 26mp (k3iii)! Also there’s very little higher than 24mp anyway. Even bleeding edge vendors like Sony haven’t jumped in with apsc bodies with high megapixels. Silly me! I've even got one. Anyway, we'll get what we're given, and maybe the K-3iv will have that 43MP sensor, because by then (?another 3, 4 or 5 years?) that'll be what's on offer at the right price.

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09-10-2021, 07:55 PM	#43
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	Originally posted by cdd29 the 43mp sensor is the logical step for the next incursion of the K1. I'm betting closer to a 50% increase in resolution and something in the 50+ mp range for a K1-3

09-10-2021, 08:26 PM	#44
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	If there is a K-1 III announced second half next year, I think the Sony 61MP sensor is a good bet, along with a $3k USD price.

09-11-2021, 03:00 AM	#45
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by UncleVanya What would really be awesome would be a programmable color filter array. Then quasi-x-trans (by rapid shots with cfa changes), bayer, quad-bayer, and monochrome would be available at the touch of a button. ---------- Post added 09-10-21 at 10:32 AM ---------- An example of rudimentary prototype and several ideas in this area… already out there: https://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/11Sig/Papers/c96-f96_2-a482-paper-v2.pdf I would prefer something more like Foveon tech, but with better performance.