Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-13-2021, 02:08 AM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2020
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 56
Photographing artwork

Hello everyone. I have a question regarding photographing artwork. My question is this: I do paintings and photograph my own works. The problem I am having is this, when I take my phot I am losing the blue in my skies. I am shooting with a K-3 and have tried Bright, Landscape and Bleach Bypass. With these or any other setting you might suggest such as natural, vibrant or any would it help to adjust my saturation and hue? If so which direction should I go? Up or down? I have tried in both PS and Lightroom to adjust my saturation and hue as well as color balance but when I change and get my blue into my sky other elements also change to things which are not correct. Any ideas? My exposure settings are fine and I use a tripod and time delay so no jitters here.

I am attaching a photo and the sky in the middle and to the left is a blue but it does not show that way.

Attached Images
 
09-13-2021, 02:50 AM   #2
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,074
Things to check:
1) Proper white balance
2) Indoor lighting, check Color Rendering Index of the light source (Color rendering index - Wikipedia). To eliminate that aspect of lighting, a test shot can be done outdoors under mid-day sunlight, see it the blue appear in the photograph.
3) Exposure (check RGB histograms, making sure blue component isn't clipped)
4) Color space setting (sRGB, aRGB)

Anyway, if the hue of blue in the painting is outside of the colors camera can record, color fidelity will be partially lost (not the same blue) or totally lost (no blue at all).

Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-13-2021 at 02:59 AM.
09-13-2021, 03:31 AM   #3
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 843
I think those settings you mentioned only affect the colour output only if you're creating JPGs.
If you shoot RAW, I think they'll essentially be ignored, and it's up to Lightroom or Photoshop to adjust your tonal range from the RAW data. RAW contains a lot more information than a JPG, whereas JPG discards a lot of information, so if you get things wrong to start with the chances are the information won't be there in the file to correct if you're shooting JPG, however with RAW you may need to make adjustments and create a preset in Lightroom with the correct adjustments.

I also paint as well as take photos, but have a K-70, although those colour settings you describe exist on the K-70 too, so if you don't resolve your issue, I can try photographing some of my art that has blues in it and see if I experience a similar issue and if I do, see if I can find settings that resolve it. I mostly only shoot RAW.
09-13-2021, 04:27 AM - 1 Like   #4
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 241
This is where the deep rabbit hole of colour management comes in. First of all shoot Raw. Ideally you would calibrate and profile each component in your workflow - camera, lens, monitor. Use a Colorchecker Passport to profile your camera and lens. Use a hardware calibrator like the i1Display Studio for your monitor. Other brands are available. There are lots of tutorials on the web on how to get accurate results when shooting artwork using these tools.

09-13-2021, 04:43 AM   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,074
QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwizinho Quote
I think those settings you mentioned only affect the colour output only if you're creating JPGs.If you shoot RAW, I think they'll essentially be ignored
How is a RAW file be visualized as an image, on computer display, or print? Not converted to a color space?

---------- Post added 13-09-21 at 13:55 ----------


QuoteOriginally posted by steephill Quote
Use a Colorchecker Passport to profile your camera and lens. Use a hardware calibrator like the i1Display Studio for your monitor.
I've found that calibration doesn't solve the problem of limited color space, but it doesn't generate sales of color calibration kits however. When I print, doesn't matter how good calibrated my monitor is because the printer color space and display color space don't match. Some of the color aren't displayed on monitor but are visible on inkjet print, while other colors can't be printed but are visible on my monitor. Unfortunately, I've watched countless video where the experts say that to have the same colors on print as they appear on monitor, we should buy a wide gamut monitor and the monitor should be calibrated, color matching isn't gonna happen as long as pigment printer and monitor color spaces are different. Once we understand that, we save money.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-13-2021 at 05:08 AM.
09-13-2021, 05:25 AM   #6
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,149
How are you lighting the images? A lot of led lighting has serious gaps in the color output that our eyes ignore but the camera sensor sees.

Are You shooting in raw? If your shot in raw you might try placing a white object in the frame for a test shot, then set the image white balance from that and remember the Kelvin light temp for the shots without the splash of white. This may help if the color of the light is well balanced but the software is confused.

Have you tried tightly framing just the sky to get a feel for how the sensor and lighting render that color in Isolation?
09-13-2021, 07:36 AM   #7
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
Posts: 1,015
As others have noted

1) SHOOT RAW!!!
2) Check the quality of your light source. If it is incandescent bulbs, there is not a lot of blue. Set a custom white balance (check the manual if you don't know how to do that) at least

Try some tests with your art work out doors (or at least by a large window) - maybe especially on a cloudy day. Look at the temperature table in section 4 of this web site: A Beginner’s Guide for Manual Controls in iPhone Photography: White Balance ~ snap snap snap

The higher Kelvin values for flash/cloud/shade mean there's more blue light in the source.

09-13-2021, 08:47 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Idaho
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,405
How is the color appearing on your LCD screen? Is the blue missing there also? If not, then the camera is "seeing" the color properly - just not getting it to the final image as it should. If the blue is missing on the LCD screen, you can play around with camera settings to see if you can fix the issue there. There are some pigments and colors which are very difficult to image correctly and it may the case for this issue.
09-13-2021, 09:20 AM - 2 Likes   #9
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Baltimore
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,307
Shoot raw, first and foremost, and shoot with a color card (Gretag Macbeth is the go-to these days). The Color Checker Passport is useful if you know how to use it properly. It has an LR plug-in.


Also, control your lighting, in all ways. Know its color temperature, and if it "combs". Shoot your lights polarized if possible/necessary (it isn't always necessary....), but be sure you know if the polarizers have a color cast, especially the one on the camera if also used.

I shoot for museums---you don't need to be that exacting, but it's always good to use care.
09-13-2021, 11:33 AM   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,074
Isn't it possible to color calibrate the painting?
09-13-2021, 02:23 PM   #11
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,846
When you adjust the white balance manually on your camera (for example Kelvin setting) you can see through the rear lcd camera screen what effect it has on the scene your camera is viewing.
09-13-2021, 07:32 PM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,035
I would use a good WB target as a starting point, I would also look at how you are setting your WB you need to look at using a neutral white target more so than a grey card and also for that white card I would use the largest exposure that you can achieve without clipping the raw file. This way you have the best signal for correctly setting your WB, you don't want to use noise from a lower exposure giving you an incorrect WB.

You also have to look at eliminating color cast from surrounding objects and even lens flare.

If you are have troubles still you many need to use a custom color profile in your raw converter by creating your own, but this comes with its own problems as many times the target is really not meant for artwork and you may need to build a color profile based on the pigments used in the artwork you are trying to photograph. This can be difficult and challenging to do without the equipment .

Depending on how you are going to use the final image I would also look to see if it color space issue, If it is for web viewing then it is really out of your control as to how people are going to view the image and I would worry more about what is best for you.

A lot of blue simply fall outside of the srgb color space, but can still be used by by printers if that is how you are going to view the final image


here is a photo that I regularly print and all of the blue outside of the wireframe falls out side of that color space.


Here is the same image but using my printers color space it covers all of the blue in my image.

To solve some of your problems you might consider using a larger color space like Prophoto and then you have the freedom to shift some of the blue details into the color space of your final product, while this won't give you an accurate recreation it will however give you something that would look more pleasing
09-13-2021, 08:30 PM   #13
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 15,014
QuoteOriginally posted by dougieazar Quote
I have tried in both PS and Lightroom to adjust my saturation and hue as well as color balance but when I change and get my blue into my sky other elements also change to things which are not correct. Any ideas?
Very important in this scenario to not change global saturation and hue, Dougie.

Go around with selection tools like the brush and alter each area in your picture individually until you're happy!
09-13-2021, 09:13 PM   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Photos: Albums
Posts: 412
A few things:

1. Shoot raw
2. Shoot on tripod, live view/mirror lockup mode
3. Set to M settings, shoot at base ISO and adjust aperture to around F5.6 - F11 based on the sharpest MTF performance of your lens
4. Ideally have a color passport or at the very least a grey color card and shoot one picture with the color passport in the middle of the frame and use that as your white balance
5. Ideally shoot under lights that have high CRI scores, otherwise your colors are going to get washed even after tuning. Modern multicolored LED panels can easily hit 95 CRI or better and will give you very good results

A few other possible tips depending on the configuration:
- Shoot with a circular polarizer to avoid banding/streaking on reflective surfaces, especially with oil paintings
- The 85 - 135mm focal length is the rough range that the human brain "remembers" things such as faces at and as such looks most pleasing
- It's typically better to shoot ETTR as long as you don't clip on highlights
09-14-2021, 02:02 AM   #15
Pentaxian
Michail_P's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Kalymnos
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,984
Would PixelShift provide a more accurate color here? It's working well on landscapes, maybe it would bring some nice results.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
artwork, calibration, change, color, colors, colour, display, hue, monitor, photography, print, printer, question, saturation, sky, space
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to increase pixels when shooting photos of artwork? Ashley_2021 Photographic Technique 21 04-01-2021 05:31 PM
Best Lense for Photographing Artwork? TAP Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 36 12-29-2018 08:03 PM
[Advice] Lighting, lenses, workflow for photographing Artwork carrrlangas Photographic Technique 13 12-23-2013 11:18 AM
Photographing Artwork writerman Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 04-16-2013 07:44 PM
Lens for photographing artwork writerman Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 10 06-24-2012 01:38 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top