[Serkevan]

and “theater” may also deter some wrong-doers or cause them to take otherwise-unnecessary actions which ultimately cause them to be caught.

It might, but it doesn't. The number of hijackings has not particularly changed regardless of the tightening of regulations - as it had been in a downward trend for a decade before 2001. Meanwhile, the non-wrong-doers are always inconvenienced for no gain.

---------- Post added 10-25-21 at 04:35 PM ----------

The security person unrolled the tube, saw that it had originally been a 150mil tube, and flagged it as too large. I protested, as she could obviously see that there was no way that there was more than 100mils in the tube (there might have been as much as 20mils, but adamant she was, and so I was given the choice of having my toothpaste confiscated, or checking my bag.
It was quite the day.

Everyone knows that a toothpaste container - container, mind you, not the content; darned microplastics ruining everything! - of 101 ml and above has the capacity to induce critical existence failure in an airplane's aluminum frame. Something to do with quantum stuff.

[yucatanPentax]

I'm in the "it's mostly theater" group.
X-raying and occasionally swabbing carry-ons is fine and actually does something. The shoes, belts, wallets, body scanners, "hands-up and shut-up" shouting of the TSA agents is ridiculous. And they're almost always shouting. The invasive pat-downs are often cruel (elderly women in wheelchairs and 4 yr old girls?) and just over-the-top.

Here's an example: I went to a conference in Chicago in the 1980s (before 9/11, but there had been many hijackings in the 1970s). The conference had the usual grab bags of gifts. One was a letter opener, dull but pointed. Some left early and were stopped at the airport when carry-ons were x-rayed and letter openers found. The conference asked that we turn in the letter openers and they'd be mailed. I simply slipped my letter opener into the spine/binder of a loose-leaf notebook and the x-ray didn't catch it. If that had been an 8" knife....

Another example: early 2000s, I few to California with a friend to pick up an old car and drive it across the country (long story). Because the car was old and I had no idea of the condition, I put together a repair kit with wrenches, extra wire, hoses, tape, flashlights (batteries), hose clamps, a hammer, screwdrivers from small to long and heavy, etc. It was in a duffel bag along with my clothing, tennis shoes, sandals, etc.

This was so soon after 9/11 that heavy security was still in airport lobbies where it had been hastily set up, until airports could be remodeled for all the extra measures (xray and inspect checked and carry-on, pat-downs, etc). So, security hefts my duffle bag onto the x-ray machine. We start to walk to the gate and get called back. "HEY! HEY! Is THIS YOUR BAG?" "Yes, is there a problem?" (fully expecting heavy questioning over all the stuff, especially wires and batteries, let alone screwdrivers, hammer, etc). I was prepared with paperwork for the car and a full explanation.

"Do you have SHOES in there?" "Well, yes, there are shoes." "Get over here and take them out!" OK.... "here are the tennis shoes"...

They x-ray the shoes, alone. They x-ray the sandals, alone. They hand everything back. Didn't check the rolls of wire, hoses, batteries, tools just the shoes.

Two guys, flying one way across country, just after 9/11, bag full of potential weapons and suspect items, not a question about any of that. Didn't even examine it all. Only the shoes. And this was before the shoe bomber guy in whose honor we all have to go barefoot.

Just theater imho. I don't mind the x-rays, but the rest is BS and even the x-rays are poorly used by people with little thought.

[yucatanPentax]

I think you missed an important word in Dave’s post “carryon”

But to some extent you are correct in the rest, the 9/11 attackers, to my knowledge had inside help placing box cutters under seats. Security is not just what comes in with passengers.

Razor-blade box cutters and short knives (under 4.0 inches) were permissible at the time. The attackers conducted "casing flights" to insure they could get aboard with these items without issue. Casing flight experiences were shared with the others.

At the Flight 93 Pennsylvania crash site, 14 short knives or knife-like items were found (investigators excavated an enormous area and sifted all the dirt). "Knife-like items" included a short blade wrapped in tape, etc. Financial investigation revealed the purchase of numerous small knives including Leatherman multi-tools, Swiss Army knives, etc.

[bogwalker]

And one could argue that, since the Germanwings tragedy, making the cockpits impossible to unlock from outside has had a net negative result of killing hundreds (while, AFAIK, saving no one from attempted plane kidnappings).

There has been at least one attempt to get into the cockpit that I heard of...
Passenger injured after jumping out of taxiing plane at Los Angeles airport | US News | Sky News

Also, just knowing the cockpit is locked will prevent potential hijackers from attempting to break in in the first place. We have no idea how many that might be.

---

Last edited by bogwalker; 10-25-2021 at 08:23 PM. Reason: grammar

[reh321]

It might, but it doesn't. The number of hijackings has not particularly changed regardless of the tightening of regulations - as it had been in a downward trend for a decade before 2001. Meanwhile, the non-wrong-doers are always inconvenienced for no gain.

It would be interesting to see some actual statistics of recent “in-air” attempts.
I do know that a ‘friend’ of mine made national news when he attempted to hyjack a plane before 9-11; we see very few reported on now. There are very few “DB Coopers” now.

[Lord Lucan]

They x-ray the shoes, alone. ... They hand everything back. Didn't check the rolls of wire, hoses, batteries, tools just the shoes.

Maybe they still get nightmares about Rosa Klebb?

[aslyfox]

. . . just knowing the cockpit is locked will prevent potential hijackers from attempting to break in in the first place. We have no idea how many that might be.

my recollection was that, after 9 11, as you boarded the air craft, the cockpit door was closed

however, when I flew in July this year, the cockpit door was open as we boarded

and I thought that was a real security issue

---

Last edited by aslyfox; 10-26-2021 at 11:53 AM.

[bogwalker]

my recollection was that, after 9 11, as you boarded the air craft, the cockpit door was closed

however, when I flew in July this year, the cockpit door was open as we boarded

and I thought that was a real security issue

I'm sure it was locked before you pushed back from the gate.

[aslyfox]

I'm sure it was locked before you pushed back from the gate.

by that time

" the horse may have escaped the barn "

and the bad actor could be in the cockpit with hostages

with the cockpit door closed and locked as the passengers walk onto the plane, there is no chance of anyone gaining access to the cockpit

[Serkevan]

by that time

" the horse may have escaped the barn "

and the bad actor could be in the cockpit with hostages

with the cockpit door closed and locked as the passengers walk onto the plane, there is no chance of anyone gaining access to the cockpit

You might have a hostage situation, but the plane won't be able to leave the airport. If the bad actor were *outside* the cockpit, but in flight (and therefore with the passage as hostages), I'd argue that they would be more in control of the situation, actually.

[aslyfox]

You might have a hostage situation, but the plane won't be able to leave the airport. If the bad actor were *outside* the cockpit, but in flight (and therefore with the passage as hostages), I'd argue that they would be more in control of the situation, actually.

We have gone beyond the scope of the forums

Have we not ?

[bogwalker]

Way, way, beyond the scope of the "general photography" forum. People can start a thread in "general talk" if they really want to beat this dead horse.

[aslyfox]

passenger gained access to cockpit via open door

American Airlines plane grounded after passenger rushes cockpit
CBSNews - 11h ago

An American Airlines flight preparing to take off from Honduras was grounded Tuesday night after a passenger rushed into the cockpit and damaged some controls, CBS Miami reports.

American Airlines confirmed the incident in a statement and said the passenger was taken into custody by local law enforcement.

According to the carrier, during boarding of Flight 488 to Miami, the passenger "entered the open flight deck and caused damage to the aircraft."

CBS News has learned that after damaging the flight controls, the traveler tried exiting through a cockpit window when a pilot intervened.

A replacement aircraft was to depart later Tuesday night.

"We applaud our outstanding crew members for their professionalism in handling a difficult situation," American Airlines said.

MSN

[UncleVanya]

passenger gained access to cockpit via open door



MSN

Yes but did he use his camera to do it???? Lol.

[Photos-by-Chas]

passenger gained access to cockpit via open door



MSN

Yes but did he use his camera to do it???? Lol.

What was the source of the report, and what does it really have to do with taking a camera out during a flight. The original thread "Is it dangerous to take a camera out during a flight now?" was started in October 2021 and the last post directly related to that post was made 10/30/2021. That indicated that the thread had pretty much run its course. So, why is it resurrected with an unrelated subject?