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03-19-2022, 02:24 AM - 8 Likes   #1
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Fake bokeh? What have we become??

So one of my adult kids asked me today "what's depth of field dad?" Turns out said kid has availed himself (at a cost well into four figures) of a new telephone. One of them iPhone 13 thingies. So I give him a brief technical explanation of what DOF is about and the parameters that influence it, which I can see is going straight over his head, and not because of how I'm explaining it. He then asks what bokeh is and so I explain that too.

"No need for all that Dad, I've got a DOF switch". A what now? "Yes, you just set the amount of bokeh you want and the TELEPHONE does it for you. Great innit?!"

So I patiently explain that either its just another fake effect button, or the TELEPHONE is compensating by changing aperture, ISO or some other setting and the TELEPHONE's automation (are you detecting that I hate camera phones, especially Apple products?) is adjusting to suit.

However, after reading a tech review (on DPReview as it happens) seems I was right with my immediate assumption. The effect is indeed totally fake and a result of yet another, actually fairly clever, algorithm. Seems Apple designed the processing to replicate performance of a (unspecified) Zeiss lens and the review compared the effect with a Nikon 58mm wide open at f1.4, and did so fairly favourably overall. The effect I believe is intended for use with the TELEPHONE's portrait lens, which works at f15, and there were some defects, such as blurring of elements in the same focal plane as the subject (specifically hair and a scarf on the photo they analysed), but as the article said, this is Effort Numero Uno. So it means a clueless Instagrammer can invoke fake bokeh with a lens working at f15 to preserve shutter speed etc..

Point here is....its another indication of where photography is going and another nail in the coffin for the camera industry I believe. I mean imagine if Apple partnered to produce a mirrorless camera with this kind of effect capability allied with some half decent glass? They'd wipe the floor with the competition frankly. And of course the other disappointment was how clueless some folk are about the basics of photography. Doesn't stop them producing some great images, and as I've said before, it would be interesting to know what percentage of images are viewed only on a smartphone or tablet, thus missing the glory of the original image - like watching an IMAX movie on a Zen Vision M.....

I think we are exiting a golden age as regards proper cameras - enjoy it while you can people.

03-19-2022, 03:20 AM - 9 Likes   #2
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I barely use my phone for photos. if ever its for documenting something. With that said:

1. I solemnly declare I will never fake my Bokeh .

2. The new K1iii (or whatever its called) will be a must have.
QuoteOriginally posted by Thwyllo Quote
I think we are exiting a golden age as regards proper cameras - enjoy it while you can people.
03-19-2022, 03:48 AM - 6 Likes   #3
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I honestly think that all bokeh is fake, after all, it is just something that is not there in real life. It is also fake in the sense that the unsharpness of background is a trick (thus fake) to enhance the sharpness of the subject and to emphasize the subject. All this is done by using a proper camera with a proper lens, which combination is not capable of making a picture that captures everything as sharp as it is in real life. But if you are talking about the art of photographing, using the shortcomings of your camera and lens to the effect of enhancing the sharpness of the subject and isolating it from the surroundings to emphasize the subject is a clever way to produce a work of art!
03-19-2022, 04:13 AM - 5 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
I honestly think that all bokeh is fake, after all, it is just something that is not there in real life. It is also fake in the sense that the unsharpness of background is a trick (thus fake) to enhance the sharpness of the subject and to emphasize the subject. All this is done by using a proper camera with a proper lens, which combination is not capable of making a picture that captures everything as sharp as it is in real life. But if you are talking about the art of photographing, using the shortcomings of your camera and lens to the effect of enhancing the sharpness of the subject and isolating it from the surroundings to emphasize the subject is a clever way to produce a work of art!
Well it is there in real life, it varies with pupil size.



03-19-2022, 04:21 AM   #5
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Fake bokeh.....It all has become a lie. Stay real people.
03-19-2022, 04:38 AM - 5 Likes   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
all bokeh is fake
QuoteOriginally posted by slartibartfast01 Quote
Well it is there in real life, it varies with pupil size.
Ok here me out:
On a bright day, lie on your back on the ground with a ball cap over your face.
With most ball caps, there's little holes on the top of the cap.
With the cap on your face, the holes are too close to properly focus on, and therefore produce a bokeh (out of focus area).
Now, with the cap still on your face, look toward one of those holes and then away from the holes, and back to a hole again.
Since it's bright out, your pupil contract and dilates depending if you're looking at a hole or not.
With that contraction/dilation, you can see the bokeh change size and quality as your pupil filters out more/less light.

So it's very much a real thing. Our eyes just usually don't filter out much light to see the blur with our regular viewing scenarios.
03-19-2022, 04:45 AM - 3 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
I honestly think that all bokeh is fake, after all, it is just something that is not there in real life. It is also fake in the sense that the unsharpness of background is a trick (thus fake) to enhance the sharpness of the subject and to emphasize the subject. All this is done by using a proper camera with a proper lens, which combination is not capable of making a picture that captures everything as sharp as it is in real life. But if you are talking about the art of photographing, using the shortcomings of your camera and lens to the effect of enhancing the sharpness of the subject and isolating it from the surroundings to emphasize the subject is a clever way to produce a work of art!
If the people of 1850 had been able to make a lens and a photographic plate that combined to have infinite depth of field and very short exposure times, bokeh would be considered a trick like stuff folks do today in Photoshop. The human eye and brain does not perceive transitions from in-focus to out-of-focus anything like you see in a shot with a f/1.4 lens shot wide open. The only way you can look straight at an object and see bokeh is if you really need glasses.

As for the original post about using a cell phone with tons of processing to fake bokeh, well, the end result is what matters. I'm not going to be mad that someone with an iPhone or a Pixel or a Galaxy can approximate the results of a K-1 and wide open lens. This isn't a skill and purity contest, and don't worry, you'll still be able to spend $thousands on camera gear if you want to and there will probably always be internet forums where you can boast about how your skills are way better than those darned kids and their fancy gadgets that real photographers would never deign to touch.

03-19-2022, 05:01 AM - 19 Likes   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
Ok here me out:
On a bright day, lie on your back on the ground with a ball cap over your face.
With most ball caps, there's little holes on the top of the cap.
With the cap on your face, the holes are too close to properly focus on, and therefore produce a bokeh (out of focus area).
Now, with the cap still on your face, look toward one of those holes and then away from the holes, and back to a hole again.
Since it's bright out, your pupil contract and dilates depending if you're looking at a hole or not.
With that contraction/dilation, you can see the bokeh change size and quality as your pupil filters out more/less light.

So it's very much a real thing. Our eyes just usually don't filter out much light to see the blur with our regular viewing scenarios.
Without my glasses on EVERYTHING IS BOKEH!
03-19-2022, 05:11 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thwyllo Quote
...
I think we are exiting a golden age as regards proper cameras - enjoy it while you can people.
Huh? What are all those splotchy canvas background muslins you see in portrait studios, then, if not fake bokeh (or bokeh enhancements)??? Did backdrops end the golden age of photography?

Last edited by jgnfld; 03-19-2022 at 05:20 AM.
03-19-2022, 05:24 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
Ok here me out:
On a bright day, lie on your back on the ground with a ball cap over your face.
With most ball caps, there's little holes on the top of the cap.
With the cap on your face, the holes are too close to properly focus on, and therefore produce a bokeh (out of focus area).
Now, with the cap still on your face, look toward one of those holes and then away from the holes, and back to a hole again.
Since it's bright out, your pupil contract and dilates depending if you're looking at a hole or not.
With that contraction/dilation, you can see the bokeh change size and quality as your pupil filters out more/less light.

So it's very much a real thing. Our eyes just usually don't filter out much light to see the blur with our regular viewing scenarios.
Sure, it a real thing. Just not in everyday viewing conditions that you see in a photograph. You never see bokeh if you're looking at your kid getting his school picture taken.
03-19-2022, 05:38 AM - 6 Likes   #11
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I think this discussion is conflating bokeh: The quality of out of focus rendering with shallow depth of field, The amount of the scene in and out of focus. Post processing tools have often had the ability to manipulate the latter with effects to the former.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with computational photography - but some of it fails to scale well. Printing some phone photos shows excellent quality and resolution - but heavily manipulated images tend to fail to hold up. But these images are rarely needed to do so - they are viewed on the phones, shared online, and general not exposed to the level of critique that we view images with. Phones are democratizing photography. They bring high enough quality to make the users happy. They are the Brownie Hawkeye cameras of today.

I strongly suggest you find a way to embrace them as a tool you can use when you don’t have your big rig with you - because capturing a moment with them is better than wishing you had a better tool that you left at home.
03-19-2022, 06:10 AM - 1 Like   #12
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I wonder if many folks here remember the "Blur Control" function on the Pentax Q7? In the right circumstances it was quite effective...
03-19-2022, 06:35 AM - 6 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I wonder if many folks here remember the "Blur Control" function on the Pentax Q7? In the right circumstances it was quite effective...
I don't need Blur Control to make my pictures blurry. I do that manually, like all REAL photographers. Tips: Camera shake, slow shutter speed, no tripod, wind, and cheapest filters and lens; Combine that with my lack of skill and talent!
03-19-2022, 06:49 AM - 3 Likes   #14
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Processed microwave food has taken over but it will never completely replace a properly cooked meal. I see this the same way.
03-19-2022, 06:50 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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Out of focus areas may be real, but in real life, you brain adjusts your eyes really quickly to achieve the effect of infinite depth of field, and it uses a form of stitching to create an no-bokeh image. Seeing out of focus areas as blurry would place humans at an evolutionary disadvantage. The frustrating thing about blurry out of focus areas, is in real life, your eyes adjust and see the whole scene. In a photograph, your eyes can adjust all they want, the info just isn''t there. That's why out of focus areas are un-natural.

I've aways considered it a conceit of photographers that they would select what's important for the audience, as if we'd be too dumb to do that ourselves. "What's that down there in the corner?" "It's out of focus, we'll never know." That's not real life. Real life is 3D. A 2D image is a very rough approximation.

Last edited by normhead; 03-19-2022 at 07:18 AM.
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