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05-01-2022, 04:21 PM - 1 Like   #31
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A good example of avoiding PP in photos is red-eye in portraits. I always use an offset flash to avoid red-eye rather than hoping my pre-flash or PP red-eye removal will take care of it.

05-01-2022, 10:27 PM - 4 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilmfan Quote
One of my pet peeves is when people wander into the perfectly-composed shot I am just about to take. For some time, I used to try to eradicate them from the image in PP, but it was very time consuming.

Then, I had a bright idea, and got an electronic wizz friend to build me a hot-shoe mounted laser (trigger voltage under 4.5 volts), with which I could eliminate the distractions. This only worked up to a point - afterwards, they tended to lie around in untidy attitudes, but at least I could clone some grass over them to improve matters.
Could only give you one 'like' for the humour, but that's a great illustration.

If we photograph an iconic attraction at its best time with the sun low, even early in the morning there can be a cleaner, a passerby, an early bird tourist in the frame.

From a tripod, we can take say, three pictures in succession, and we will be able to remove all of them from the scene.

Waiting fingers crossed for perfection, for them all to leave at the same time and nobody else to arrive, would seem to be unnecessarily hardcore.

Last edited by clackers; 05-02-2022 at 04:54 PM.
05-02-2022, 12:19 AM - 2 Likes   #33
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I try to take perfect negative to post process. Avoid black and make certain that there is no overblown white. Composition a little wide so it can be cropped to perfection. If the shot is not worth the effort of pp, it's really not worth of anything and will be deleted.

I give no credit to SOOC personally. When people publish those I often feel like a little touch of pp would've made them a lot better, so it kind of feels like lazy or unskilled solution. That said there are some great jpg shooters on this forum that constantly publish amazing work, but I don't know if they are SOOC or retouched jpg's. Never asked. Don't care. It's the final image that counts. Work method is irrelevant.
05-03-2022, 10:14 AM   #34
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The world is not perfect. Why would photos be?

QuoteOriginally posted by Sam_I_am Quote
......
...

So I ask you this.(redundant I know) Do you still try to achieve that "perfect" shot, or have you found that you don't worry about it because you can edit it later.

I used parentheses on the word "perfect" because that is subjective to each and every one of us.
The world is not perfect. I like the world photographed as it is.

05-03-2022, 10:29 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by editor Quote
The world is not perfect. I like the world photographed as it is.
That also raises the question of what "perfect" consists of.

At one time I posted a photo in a "generic" {not brand specific} photo discussion site.
I posted it for a particular reason, but someone else was more interested in discussing the photo itself.
He was certain that the girls' skin {it was of my daughter playing soccer} was too pink and the grass was too blue.

Actually, this was the second half of the game during a cool April morning - their skin was pinkish.
The day was cloudy - everything was bluer than it would have been on a perfect sun-lit day.
The photo was a "perfect" rendition of what was true that day.

Last edited by reh321; 05-03-2022 at 11:54 AM.
05-03-2022, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by editor Quote
The world is not perfect. I like the world photographed as it is.
Agree, still like to try to take the perfect picture of the (sometimes imperfect, sometimes beautiful) world : that means to get the picture as I imagined it when I planned to take it....
05-04-2022, 04:05 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sam_I_am Quote
Does the "perfect" shot matter anymore
I have worked through the photography era, when it was more of requirement to endeavour "get it right" first time.

I have carried that ethos forward with me, to nowadays technology... but I'm certainly not averse to PP, where both allowed and required.

05-04-2022, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
I give no credit to SOOC personally. When people publish those I often feel like a little touch of pp would've made them a lot better, so it kind of feels like lazy or unskilled solution. That said there are some great jpg shooters on this forum that constantly publish amazing work, but I don't know if they are SOOC or retouched jpg's. Never asked. Don't care. It's the final image that counts. Work method is irrelevant.
I never understood the posted photos that come with the SOOC label as a badge of honor. Why would anyone care if you decided the Pentax engineer's post-processing in camera was preferable to someone's else's Lightroom or Darktable or Rawtherapee edits?
05-04-2022, 07:10 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I never understood the posted photos that come with the SOOC label as a badge of honor. Why would anyone care if you decided the Pentax engineer's post-processing in camera was preferable to someone's else's Lightroom or Darktable or Rawtherapee edits?
“SOOC” is not a ‘badge of honor’ - it is a ‘badge of authenticity’.
The same hands that “improved the photo” could have added a rubber ducky or a UFO.
I came into photography through another hobby - railroad photography.
There, the show organizer would typically ask that original slides be used as a guarantee of authenticity -
as a guarantee that the scene shown had actually happened,
so when Jim Boyd showed us a slide of an old steam locomotive pulling freight cars through a Mississippi flood,
we could be assured that this had really happened.

added: the automated changes never change the essence of a photo -
you can be certain they work the same way each time;
you can never be assured that human intelligence will not make real changes to the scene.

Last edited by reh321; 05-04-2022 at 07:33 AM.
05-04-2022, 07:28 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
“SOOC” is not a ‘badge of honor’ - it is a ‘badge of authenticity’.
The same hands that “improved the photo” could have added a rubber ducky or a UFO.
I came into photography through another hobby - railroad photography.
There, the show organizer would typically ask that original slides be used as a guarantee of authenticity -
as a guarantee that the scene shown had actually happened,
so when Jim Boyd showed us a slide of an old steam locomotive pulling freight cars through a Mississippi flood,
we could be assured that this had really happened.
When I was in grad school {many years ago}, I spent a night in Virginia City NV.
There was a sign there on a building where Sam Clemens {“Mark Twain”} had been newspaper editor.
An ‘artist’ would remove the sign and the utility wires to “improve” the photo -
to make the building look more like it did in his day.
I would rather use a “SOOC” view that shows it as it looks today.
Different photographers tell different stories.

Last edited by reh321; 05-04-2022 at 07:59 AM. Reason: fix quote marks
05-04-2022, 07:45 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
“SOOC” is not a ‘badge of honor’ - it is a ‘badge of authenticity’.
The same hands that “improved the photo” could have added a rubber ducky or a UFO.
I came into photography through another hobby - railroad photography.
There, the show organizer would typically ask that original slides be used as a guarantee of authenticity -
as a guarantee that the scene shown had actually happened,
so when Jim Boyd showed us a slide of an old steam locomotive pulling freight cars through a Mississippi flood,
we could be assured that this had really happened.

added: the automated changes never change the essence of a photo -
you can be certain they work the same way each time;
you can never be assured that human intelligence will not make real changes to the scene.
Maybe it's just me, but I never thought pulling up shadows, straightening the horizon, making sure white balance is right, cropping and applying sharpening is the same thing as adding in Elvis riding in a UFO. It's pretty obvious that the photos of cats and flowers and the Eiffel Tower that have been run through RawTherapee aren't normally attempts to deceive and nothing is gained by noting the sliders were barely touched.
05-04-2022, 07:51 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The same hands that “improved the photo” could have added a rubber ducky or a UFO.
I think you mixing post processing and photoshopping together, while for me those are two different things. I'm under illusion that many RAW editors don't even allow adding rubber ducks into shots. At least I don't know how that could be done in Capture 1 that I use. I do have a programm where I could do that, but I need to process the shot to jpg or tiff first.
05-04-2022, 07:57 AM   #43
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If one is not trying to get the best they can every step of the way, they are compromising the quality of their work. I've seen far too many unrepairable "I'll fix it in post" images that could have been saved by spending a few extra seconds behind the camera. I've spent too many hours trying to repair "fix it in post" images for people who could have taken a few extra moments behind the camera to get it right to save me the time and them the money that they are paying me to fix their mistakes.

Fix it in post works to varying degrees until it doesn't, and then you've wasted your money buying that decent camera and your time going out and using it. I really don't understand the "I'll fix it in post" attitude.

Why not save yourself the trouble and fix it now rather than take the chance that you won't be able to fix it later?

Why not spend the extra few seconds now to fix it in camera rather than spend a percentage of an hour trying to fix it later?

Why not try to get the best you can every step of the way rather than start off with compromised garbage that you have to pull out of the digital junk bin to make something decent when you could have taken those extra few moments at the beginning to make something great?

Why settle for mediocrity when it takes such little effort to be better?

---------- Post added May 4th, 2022 at 09:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by editor Quote
The world is not perfect. I like the world photographed as it is.
In this case your photography needs to be perfect to ensure the world is being seen just as it is in your photographs.

You aren't thinking these things through to the end are you?

Last edited by Wheatfield; 05-04-2022 at 08:07 AM.
05-04-2022, 08:12 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
If one is not trying to get the best they can every step of the way, they are compromising the quality of their work. I've seen far too many unrepairable "I'll fix it in post" images that could have been saved by spending a few extra seconds behind the camera. I've spent too many hours trying to repair "fix it in post" images for people who could have taken a few extra moments behind the camera to get it right to save me the time and them the money that they are paying me to fix their mistakes.

Fix it in post works to varying degrees until it doesn't, and then you've wasted your money buying that decent camera and your time going out and using it. I really don't understand the "I'll fix it in post" attitude.

Why not save yourself the trouble and fix it now rather than take the chance that you won't be able to fix it later?

Why not spend the extra few seconds now to fix it in camera rather than spend a percentage of an hour trying to fix it later?

Why not try to get the best you can every step of the way rather than start off with compromised garbage that you have to pull out of the digital junk bin to make something decent when you could have taken those extra few moments at the beginning to make something great?

Why settle for mediocrity when it takes such little effort to be better?

---------- Post added May 4th, 2022 at 09:05 AM ----------



In this case your photography needs to be perfect to ensure the world is being seen just as it is in your photographs.

You aren't thinking these things through to the end are you?
We keep throwing around words like “mediocrity” and “perfect” without defining them.
I believe the definitions mean a lot.
Some people aim for ‘a good rendition of how things are today’, while others aim for ‘as perfect as I can make it’.
They are not the same goals, and no one should judge the work of others by his/her own goals.
The “little time to fix it” is counterproductive if it moves the photo away from my goals.
05-04-2022, 08:16 AM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Why not save yourself the trouble and fix it now rather than take the chance that you won't be able to fix it later?

Why not spend the extra few seconds now to fix it in camera rather than spend a percentage of an hour trying to fix it later?

Why not try to get the best you can every step of the way rather than start off with compromised garbage that you have to pull out of the digital junk bin to make something decent when you could have taken those extra few moments at the beginning to make something great?

Why settle for mediocrity when it takes such little effort to be better?
Because there are types of photography that make it impossible to be deliberate. It's considered rude to ask the striker sprinting past me on the way to scoring a goal to pause while I change settings to account for him running from shade into direct sunlight. It's sometimes a necessity to get it close in camera and touch it up in post.
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