[Lord Lucan]

The Raspberry Pi runs PiOS or Linux.

Indeed, it was based on the Debian version of Linux. The original OS was called Raspbian which was a combination of the words Raspberry and Debian. I have used Debian (and now its fork Devuan) for years, so I felt quite at home when I got a Raspberry Pi. I use it for some file back-ups.

The processor has to have an OS to manage everything, and it doesn't matter if it's in machine code, it will still be an OS

Strictly speaking you don't need an OS. Each application could control the machine hardware directly. You just need a bit of code (perhaps hard wired) to transfer the application program into memory first. If you only ever use the same application (such as in a washing machine or camera) that can be done at the factory, but then you don't have a computer, you just have an intelligent device that uses a microprocessor.

DOS for example was really just a program loader, capable of not much more than loading a program into memory from disk and reading keyboard input. It was called "Disk Operating System" because that was about all it did. Things like word processors for DOS came packaged with drivers for every possible printer, and graphical programs like games had to include their own video drivers. It was very inefficient. Modern OS's manage the drivers themselves.

[Bob 256]

The Raspberry Pi runs PiOS or Linux.
The processor has to have an OS to manage everything, and it doesn't matter if it's in machine code, it will still be an OS but may not be a common OS.

Cheers,
Terry

True these systems can be run on a Raspberry Pi but the point I was trying to make is that there is a compiler between the OS and the chip itself which runs on it's own code specific to that chip. The Raspberry Pi board was designed with an OS in mind which is installed by the user.

[MossyRocks]

If it is modified Linux, wouldn't the camera maker have to provide a publically available version of their source code?

Depends on what was changed and how their special sauce is integrated. They could do it much like Nvidia does with their GPU drivers which basically results in nothing being shared back.

[clackers]

Depends on what was changed and how their special sauce is integrated. They could do it much like Nvidia does with their GPU drivers which basically results in nothing being shared back.

If they modify, they have to make available the source code, that's the GPL deal.

Ricoh didn't have to go with Linux, BTW.

A lot of photocopiers (including theirs) use Open BSD Unix, not Linux. It's also open source, but not GPL so it's completely free, there is no requirement to share what you do with it, your IP remains your IP.

Apple also take advantage of that arrangement with the MacOS - it is based on a Mach kernel, BSD components. Then they add their stuff on top.

[nexflatline]

Sony cameras contain an Android subsystem to run apps that can control the whole hardware, but it may not be the base system.

[UncleVanya]

Sony cameras contain an Android subsystem to run apps that can control the whole hardware, but it may not be the base system.

Are you talking about the play memories apps? Those are not in any of the bodies since the a7R II.

[nexflatline]

Are you talking about the play memories apps? Those are not in any of the bodies since the a7R II.

Thank you for the info, I didn't know that. I read about it when trying to force change the language of my Sony camera from Japanese to English (it was an older model than the a7R II).
It didn't work, and that was the reason I switched to Pentax and vowed never to buy anything Sony again.

---

Last edited by nexflatline; 05-04-2022 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Double quote

[bogwalker]

Michael - Pentax firmware has been discussed a fair bit. Short version is several of the cameras run a RTOS, and some is based on Linux for ARM processors.Resurrecting Pentax firmware hacking - PentaxForums.com
Thomas Tempelmann | RICOH / PENTAX FluCard Reverse Engineering

This makes sense. Not all cameras (including mine) are in the link to the source that BorisCleto gave (they specifically say they need to provide the source because of license requirements). So the missing cameras are likely using the eSOL system. It's a bit surprising that they use two different systems.

Back in the old days, a company could roll its own basic OS, just a run loop written in assembly and timer interrupts, but those days are long gone for something as complicated as a DSLR. These things do a LOT. Just the auto-focus is likely 100K lines of code.

I write embedded software, but generally on smaller systems. I've stayed out of the Linux world, not completely intentionally, but that's how it's worked out.

[MossyRocks]

If they modify, they have to make available the source code, that's the GPL deal.

That is why I specifically brought up Nvidia as they dance a very fine line avoiding having to opensource anything of value. So it is possible to do such things. It may be that Linux just provides system calls and interfaces to devices as just simple block or character devices and they have a large monolithic program that sits on top and had the necessary brains for actually doing useful things with the devices and all user functionality.

BSD is very different in its licensing allowing one to keep their modifications.

Having spent years working with Unix and Unix-like systems and with software that uses various licenses (GPLv2, GPLv3, LGPL, BSD, MIT, Apache, proprietary, etc.) one does have to keep those things in mind.

[gofour3]

This is the OS my cameras use:

Phil.

[clackers]

This is the OS my cameras use:

Phil.

Yeah, you're definitely in the 'I don't upgrade OSes' set, Phil.

[MarkJerling]

Phil's a MS-DOS user!

I like your style Phil.

[pimpim]

There are some open source projects that use the fact that it's Android to deploy custom feature packages for some Sony cameras, eg the a5000, nex 6 etc. Probably also early a7 models. This is different than Samsung's android cameras, updates or access to a store are supposed to be hidden to the user.

If you like doing funky stuff with cameras try a sony a5000 or nex-5r, they're cheap and you can log in via telnet over wifi and mess around, enable clean hdmi etc. Look for ma1co openmemories on github.

I wonder about magiclantern for canon. It seems to not replace the OS but it's sort of a layer on top of it.

[MossyRocks]

Phil's a MS-DOS user!

That is probably too advanced, I'm betting he's a CP/M user.

[gofour3]

That is probably too advanced, I'm betting he's a CP/M user.

Close, I date back to the IBM mainframe DOS/360 & DOS/VSE days in the late 1970's, when I started my first IT job as a mainframe computer operator.

Phil.