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04-29-2022, 08:26 PM   #1
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Michael Piziak's Avatar

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Curious - what Operating System do cameras use?

Curious - what Operating System do cameras use?

I would suspect Linux, as everything from smart tv's to radios in our cars use it.


I see Canon has their own self made OS for theirs.

Just a conversation starter and was curious....


Regards,

Michael

Addendum: Canon's is called DRYOS and a search reveals Nikon's is Linux....


Last edited by Michael Piziak; 04-30-2022 at 06:27 PM. Reason: mispelled word
04-29-2022, 08:29 PM   #2
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I think most run their own OS, if you can call it that. I know Samsung had an Android based camera, but that was more the exception rather than the rule.
04-29-2022, 11:18 PM   #3
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Most handheld devices use proprietary operating systems but there are plenty of examples of stripped down versions of either Linux/Android OS being used. These OS are heavily skinned and customized to suit the function and processing capabilities of the device, gaining root access can be quite hazardous.
04-30-2022, 01:43 AM   #4
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If it is modified Linux, wouldn't the camera maker have to provide a publically available version of their source code?

04-30-2022, 02:04 AM   #5
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From what I understand several years ago Pentax did release a SDK for their cameras, I believe that SDK was the pathway that led to the development of the unoffficial PK-Capture tethering software.
04-30-2022, 03:50 AM - 5 Likes   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
If it is modified Linux, wouldn't the camera maker have to provide a publically available version of their source code?
RICOH IMAGING Selects eSOL?s Real-time OS-based Software Platform for PENTAX K-3 DSLR and GR Cameras | Press Releases | eSOL - Real-time embedded software platform solutions
04-30-2022, 04:27 AM - 1 Like   #7
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The GR III debuted embedded Linux, the K-3 III uses it, so I think we can expect it for the future releases in those platforms, including full frame and perhaps medium format if the financial modelling says a 645Z successor would work.

04-30-2022, 04:55 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The GR III debuted embedded Linux, the K-3 III uses it, so I think we can expect it for the future releases in those platforms, including full frame and perhaps medium format if the financial modelling says a 645Z successor would work.
Is there a source for this info on the OS?
04-30-2022, 05:10 AM - 3 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Is there a source for this info on the OS?
This thread from 2019…
Is the GRIII linux based!? - PentaxForums.com

Ricoh maintains an OSS page, last update of their source code was a few weeks ago..
Open Source Software (OSS) | RICOH IMAGING

Cameras are the GR III, IIIx, G900SE, and K-3 III.
04-30-2022, 05:19 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
This thread from 2019…
Is the GRIII linux based!? - PentaxForums.com

Ricoh maintains an OSS page, last update of their source code was a few weeks ago..
Open Source Software (OSS) | RICOH IMAGING

Cameras are the GR III, IIIx, G900SE, and K-3 III.
Thank you. I couldn’t find anything.
04-30-2022, 06:17 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mooncatt Quote
I think most run their own OS, if you can call it that. I know Samsung had an Android based camera, but that was more the exception rather than the rule.
The notorious Samsung Galaxy NX camera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_NX): It was a camera with the usual processor for the camera and Android added to handle the camera and do some postprocessing. Actually the same thing that you can now do with almost any camera that can make contact with your phone. That is what I remember of that one when I was interested in a new APS-C camera but instead bought a K-01! The Galaxy NX had the largest screen seen on a camera. A problem, of course, was that, as it was Android OS, it was dfficult to keep the camera updated with new OS's.
04-30-2022, 06:56 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Michael - Pentax firmware has been discussed a fair bit. Short version is several of the cameras run a RTOS, and some is based on Linux for ARM processors.Resurrecting Pentax firmware hacking - PentaxForums.com
Thomas Tempelmann | RICOH / PENTAX FluCard Reverse Engineering

This did inspire me to have a look at the 645Z firmware 1.30, and one string "OIOSMUON" might be a name of the OS or a component of an OS, and a surprise "PENTAX 645D II" which might have been the original name for the 645Z, following the 645D.
04-30-2022, 07:03 AM - 2 Likes   #13
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A camera doesn't necessarily have to have an "operating system". For example, what operating system does an Arduino or Raspberry Pi use? They actually "operate" using machine code appropriate for each micro-controller or micro-processor, although the actual code might be written using a compiler like C+, but the actual "operating system" doesn't exist in a standardized form such as Windows, MacOS, Android, or the like. Most cameras probably operate using a "proprietary" operating system written in machine code, and there could be many, many variations on such, being different with model and maker (even within sub-models in a case where a controller is swapped out for a more capable chip having a different code set).

Last edited by Bob 256; 05-03-2022 at 11:49 AM.
04-30-2022, 10:16 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
A camera doesn't necessarily have to have an "operating system". For example, what operating system does an Arduino or Raspberry Pi use? They actually "operate" using machine code appropriate for each micro-controller or micro-processor
The Raspberry Pi runs PiOS or Linux.
The processor has to have an OS to manage everything, and it doesn't matter if it's in machine code, it will still be an OS but may not be a common OS.

Cheers,
Terry
04-30-2022, 10:29 PM - 5 Likes   #15
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For 50 years I was a software/systems engineer engaged in cold bare metal hard real time full stack embedded systems.

This has the right feel to it. We know that Pentax uses the Socionext Milbeaut image processing system on a chip (SOC), which contains a set of quad-core ARM CORTEX core processors along with a small DSP (digital signal processor) array. We also know that Pentax embraces reuse, essentially reusing the common system guts across their processor lines - crop, full-frame, medium frame, and this can be extended to their 360 degree cameras.As soon as the Milbeaut processors support a new capability/functionality Pentax supports it usually enhancing the basic capability.

Also as gatorguy posted the eSOL’s Real-time OS supports the ARM processor architecture. eSOL has major client support - so they are not a fly by night shop..... and Socionext is a major partner of eSOL, so the entire vertical integration is there. That provides enormous risk mitigation for Pentax, along with a source of accelerating the entire development process.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
If it is modified Linux, wouldn't the camera maker have to provide a publically available version of their source code?
Usually - however, there are so many distributions and specialized forks of Linux, some of which only used the original Linux code as a blueprint - essentially rewriting the actual code so as to be original works.

QuoteOriginally posted by ProfessorBuzz Quote
Michael - Pentax firmware has been discussed a fair bit. Short version is several of the cameras run a RTOS, and some is based on Linux for ARM processors.Resurrecting Pentax firmware hacking - PentaxForums.com
Thomas Tempelmann | RICOH / PENTAX FluCard Reverse Engineering

This did inspire me to have a look at the 645Z firmware 1.30, and one string "OIOSMUON" might be a name of the OS or a component of an OS, and a surprise "PENTAX 645D II" which might have been the original name for the 645Z, following the 645D.
There is a very large world of ARM OSs available, some original, others using a "Linux template". The company that I retired from has its own ARM-based OS that provides for specialized cyber security capabilities - essentially a fully customized secure separation kernel - based on formal methods.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
A camera doesn't necessarily have to have an "operating system". For example, what operating system does an Arduino or Raspberry Pi use? They actually "operate" using machine code appropriate for each micro-controller or micro-processor, although the actual code might be written using a compiler like C+, but the actual "operating system" doesn't exist in a standardized form such as Windows, MacOS, Android, or the like. Most cameras probably operate using a "proprietary" operating system written in machine code, and there could be many, many variations on such, being different with model and maker (even within sub-models if a controller is swapped out for a more capable chip).
The Pi uses the Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) which is a derivative/tailored version of Linux. Due to the nature of the Pi's hardware, and its user base, they really needed an off-the-shelf OS version tailored for the bare hardware board that was selling. Without the software support, the Pi would have not been as successful as it has been. Having a fully rolled functional OS based on Linux with known interfaces provided the full package to make the product successful. The same goes for the Arduino to a somewhat lesser extent Pentax is unable to afford a custom OS written in assembly (and the maintenance would be financial suicide). Actually, today - the optimizing compilers are so good, that there is little need for custom assembly language outside of potentially a few specialized areas. As noted above where real-time OS that is tailored to the hardware (both ARM and the specific image processing SOC), there is no need, Pentax has (apparently) essentially just able to purchase it off the shelf. The eSOL's OS even supports the DSPs in the SOC.

That leaves Pentax to focus on what they do best - add their tailoring and customizations to the overall product. The main problem that Pentax has is that in using these off-the-shelf subsystems - they are at the mercy of the basic thruput of the Milbeaut SOC, which determines their overall FPS for the particular sensor they are using. Nikon uses the same Milbeaut SOC apparently with a lot of custom-tailoring. What I find somewhat interesting is that Ricoh and Pentax do not use the same image processing SOC.

Last edited by interested_observer; 05-01-2022 at 12:09 PM.
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