[biz-engineer]

ut if you re-read my original post in that thread, you'll note that I've not once claimed to be annoyed by the software

I guess you are playing with words here. Anyway, the "after-taste" left your post about AI is one of being unsatisfied, frustrated, annoyed (I'd need to look into a thesaurus to find other words). It's the overall message that counts more than individual words I guess

Nice try, biz, but no cigar

Well, my point was that being friendly, agreeable, compassionate seems to works both ways, and I can do anything to make it uni-directional, unfortunately

[BigMackCam]

I guess you are playing with words here. Anyway, the "after-taste" left your post about AI is one of being unsatisfied, frustrated, annoyed (I'd need to look into a thesaurus to find other words). It's the overall message that counts more than individual words I guess

Not at all, biz. I can categorically state that I'm not annoyed or frustrated by AI software or the folks that use it (of whom I'm one) - I just don't trust it (yet). I thought I'd been very clear about that in my thread on the subject. Perhaps I wasn't, or perhaps you read more into it than was intended. Anyway, I trust you'll accept this as final clarification, and we can return to the OP's specific subject...

[Wheatfield]

exactly - it's entirely subjective...

I suppose we could blame Mike for it....

without him, would "bokeh" have happened anyways???

Of course. Before bokeh, we just said the background looks kind of ugly.

[Bob 256]

It took me this long to realize this thread wasn't about wine fragrance.................. Too many people, too hot about something, which is like being hot about the shape of clouds. Everyone take a breath and enjoy the fact that photography has so many nuances to make it what it is, and then do your own thing

[texandrews]

The older I get (66, now, photographing things since I was 10) , the more astonished (but not actually surprised, one of the meanings of that word) I am when I encounter righteous certainty about topics where there is a spread of valid points of view.

I have rather gone in the other direction....

[biz-engineer]

Not at all, biz.

I agree (showing example here). What I became more and more aware recently was the notion of "gestalt" (the whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts), has its application in photography, as well as in communication. So we have things such as soft spoken authority , courteous authority and the respectful disagreement .

As a matter of fact, I was recently looking for ways to create bokeh balls, not because of TikTok, but because I took a few shots of roses with Satobi and accidental bokeh balls, and I found it really cool.

[c.a.m]

Ahh, bokeh!

Once it was unleashed, discussions about bokeh appeared everywhere. And not just bokeh balls! There are 'bokeh monsters' (e.g., Pentacon 135mm f/2.8), Kings of Bokeh, Bokehlicious! images, Bokeh Beauty. Don't forget cat's-eye bokeh, swirly bokeh, soft bokeh, harsh bokeh, and -- something to be avoided, perhaps -- nervous bokeh. Good Bokeh, Bad Bokeh.

Some bokeh history:

Photo Techniques magazine, May/June 1997 -- the bokeh edition, Mike Johnston.
Book review 2; Photo Techniques May/June 1997 ? PhotoKensho

The issue included three articles:
"What is Bokeh?"
"Notes on the Terminology of Bokeh"
"A Technical View of Bokeh"

Here's one of the articles, A Technical View of Bokeh, by Harold Merklinger.
http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/ATVB.pdf

More from Mike: The Online Photographer: 20 Years Ago Next Month: What Is 'Bokeh'?

There's even Bokeh for Beginners, by Nikon: How to Create Bokeh - Bokeh Photography Tips | Nikon | Nikon.

Nikon gives tips on 'achieving' bokeh: "To increase the likelihood of creating visible bokeh in your photographs, increase the distance between your subject and the background." Great tips on getting some of that good ol' bokeh! F/1.2 and be there!

Bokeh is everywhere! It would have been a perfect word to be whispered by the Bill Murray character in Lost in Translation.

- Craig

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Last edited by c.a.m; 06-16-2022 at 03:23 PM.

[35mmfilmfan]

Sometimes I get 'accidental' bokeh, which either pleases me or displeases me, depending upon whether it enhances or detracts from my original subject. I don't think I have ever planned bokeh, unlike the 'sun stars' which I occasionally try to capture (with indifferent success). Some people like bokeh, some don't. Some people like tomatoes - I don't. Live and let live - vent your spleen on topics that really matter, such as the ultra-annoying habit of builders not to place the front doors on houses perfectly centrally, thus ruining a perfectly good architectural image. (Irony ? You decide.)

[Sir Nameless]

I have five (five!) photos in my flickr account that prominently feature bokeh balls. All five are abstractions of a natural phenomenon: sunlight refracting through ice. I happen to like them. They were my way of expressing what I was seeing. I also have a few with accidental bokeh pentagons. I even have some with no out of focus areas at all. So what.

[JohnMc]

Ahh, bokeh!

Bokeh is everywhere! It would have been a perfect word to be whispered by the Bill Murray character in Lost in Translation.

I always thought Adams and his f64 compatriots had bad bokeh because of Eddy Steichen.

[BigMackCam]

So we have things such as soft spoken authority , courteous authority and the respectful disagreement

Bingo Combine those with acceptance and tolerance, a desire to be constructive and supportive, and not to ruffle feathers... If everyone posted with these qualities in mind (or at least tried to... I try, but I know I fail on occasion - I'm human ) we'd have an even more wonderful environment here than we currently enjoy...

[GUB]

This rant reminds me of another one: Fake bokeh? What have we become?? - PentaxForums.com . By the way, both authors seem to dislike bokeh. The real one as well as the fake one.
I guess that bokeh gets stressed because modern lenses are so, well, sharp. In the old days we compared how sharp our subject in the picture was. Now we compare them on the basis of how unsharp fore- and background are. I am the station in life that I make fully bokeh pictures... Where others convert their camera to a monochrome by mutilating the camera I just switch off AF on camera and lens, set SR to off and have fully bokeh camera at the cost of nothing. Now I am ready to just push the exposure button. Only things I take into account is the right aperture and shutterspeed and then fire away. I never have enjoyed photographing as much as at the moment, none of my pictures taken failed. They are all of a lovely bokeh and it saves a lot of room on the SD card. I just shoot jpeg, not raw because as all my pictures are perfect I have no need of extensive post processing. Yes I love bokeh. My wife says I should stop this hobby, because I cannot make a good picture anymore. She claims she never heard about bokeh?

Thanks for that inspiration - you have set me free! Headed out this morning with a trendy Helios, with the trendy flip the front element thing, fired it wide open with the focus at the wrong end and presto - bokeh by the bucket load!
No more diffraction limited obsession for me!

[Oldbayrunner]

I've been taking photos for 50+ years and this (to me) incredibly annoying phenomenon has only been a thing for the last few years, especially since the new generation of Instagram/Lomography fans decided that buying cheap nasty plastic cameras

Interesting you state this, I've been into photography for the last 62 years and your so called annoying phenomenon gained popularity and has been used in several facets of film & Video since the late 1990's carrying over into digital photography today.

If one so chooses one could find annoyance in several of today's more poplar forms of out of the norm snap shot photography from the abundance of HDR to Night shots that include the Milky Way.... I agree with others, you don't like it dont waste your time looking at them and concentrate on what you are interested in.

[yucatanPentax]

My aunt was a professional photographer. Made her living at it for over 40 years. I remember very clearly being in the front yard of our grandparents' house in the 1960s. She was showing me the difference between bokeh with a Hassleblad and with a Mamiya 67. (BTW, yes, she'd been to Japan, even back then.)

"Look at the leaves in the background when I do this.... OK, now when I do this. If you only want to see the person, this way is better."

She then took a photo of my grandad in a somewhat Swiss-style hat in front of their autumn-red maple tree. Not long after, the photo was on the cover of a magazine. Guess what? It had bokeh! 1960s.

So, no, it's not brand new. It did not start with cheap cameras in the 1990s or whatever. It's not low class, or cheap, or .... whatever the perceived issue is (?which I don't get, obviously?) When I see photos which don't appeal to me, I don't even think about them a moment later, let alone rant about them.

People are trying out their talents, their abilities, their equipment, playing with light, and absorbing what happens when making images. The technique of a photo has never angered me or caused me to rant. Somehow I just don't get that.

[Stefan Jr]

I had a sudden urge to share a photo with a strategic bokeh ball - using an old "crap" lens.

Have a nice weekend Pentaxians - not matter what "style" or equipment you prefer. And
remember; have fun!