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09-13-2022, 12:43 PM - 3 Likes   #1
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Good perspective don't come easy!

For this scene, editors of the lord of the rings had to create a special, bigger ring in order to fit it in a proper perspective. This thing weighted 3 kilos!



How many times you wished things to be changed in your seen?

09-13-2022, 01:22 PM - 3 Likes   #2
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Ah, life in the world of photography!

On an outing with another couple to a rural park in the foothills of the local mountains, I took photographs and another person painted. I was forced to live with the existing placements of a particular rustic farm house, dusty trees, hazy mountains, sky, and lighting as they were on that day at that time. She rearranged and rescaled the object, changed the perspective, and adjusted the light as she composed a scene on canvas with bright acrylics.

I captured "reality" as it was in it's lackluster banality. She captured the emotional essence of an old farm building in the foothills.


Photography (especially landscape photography) has the challenge that nature and physics control most of the particulars of the image. Sure, clever composition, good lens choice, perfect timing, and luck in the lighting-lottery provide some control, but not as much control as is enjoyed by practitioners of the synthetic arts like painting that are not so constrained by reality.
09-13-2022, 02:05 PM - 3 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Photography (especially landscape photography) has the challenge that nature and physics control most of the particulars of the image. Sure, clever composition, good lens choice, perfect timing, and luck in the lighting-lottery provide some control, but not as much control as is enjoyed by practitioners of the synthetic arts like painting that are not so constrained by reality.
Well, that didn't stop photographers in the analog age and I feel like the digital age just encourages people to alter reality because it's so easy to do.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lev Quote
For this scene, editors of the lord of the rings had to create a special, bigger ring in order to fit it in a proper perspective. This thing weighted 3 kilos!
I never would have guessed... I'm going to blame trickery like this in the future for setting impossible standards that I always fail to achieve with my photographs

I was aware that they used all kinds of perspective trickery to make Gandalf look so much bigger than Bilbo though. If you're ever in The Hague, visit the Escher museum. Apart from so many of his art pieces being exhibited there and the building itself being quite beautiful (it is a former palace of Dutch royalty after all... ), there is a checkerboarded room that is distorted such that two people of the same height standing in different corners of the room will look like their height is vastly different from one another when looking at a picture of the room where the proper perspective correction has been applied to produce the desired effect. (I think perspective has to be corrected for the effect to show? See here under "De Scheve Kamer" for a picture of the room from the outside).
09-13-2022, 02:35 PM - 1 Like   #4
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The Escher Museum is really something different and it is the place to learn about perspective. I used to live and work in the Hague and the old head Postoffice in the Torenstraat used to have a large metamorphosis high on the wall in the public area.

09-13-2022, 03:16 PM   #5
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doesn't...doesn't come easily...you have been grammar policed...
09-13-2022, 04:32 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Ah, life in the world of photography!

On an outing with another couple to a rural park in the foothills of the local mountains, I took photographs and another person painted. I was forced to live with the existing placements of a particular rustic farm house, dusty trees, hazy mountains, sky, and lighting as they were on that day at that time. She rearranged and rescaled the object, changed the perspective, and adjusted the light as she composed a scene on canvas with bright acrylics.

I captured "reality" as it was in it's lackluster banality. She captured the emotional essence of an old farm building in the foothills.


Photography (especially landscape photography) has the challenge that nature and physics control most of the particulars of the image. Sure, clever composition, good lens choice, perfect timing, and luck in the lighting-lottery provide some control, but not as much control as is enjoyed by practitioners of the synthetic arts like painting that are not so constrained by reality.
This is always part of the discussion when the processing police open a conversation about the evils of photo editing. The painter starts with a blank canvas and picks and chooses what (and where) elements will go in the work. The photographer starts with a complete scene. Some of us believe that the photographer has just as much right as the artist to pick and choose (hence Photoshop) while others think that any alteration of the scene is sacrilege.

For me, getting rid of a misplaced trashcan, erasing a dog with its leg up, or even moving a rustic farm house is okay if that's what you want to do.
09-13-2022, 10:59 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpobuttons Quote
doesn't...doesn't come easily...you have been grammar policed...
I must take issue upon this point. Surely, by its very application, the word 'Perspective' must indicate multiplicity of subject matter - you cannot have perspective with fewer than two objects. Therefore, the word itself must be of a multiple nature, hence the usage 'don't' is, in my view, grammatically acceptable.

09-14-2022, 01:35 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Photography (especially landscape photography) has the challenge that nature and physics control most of the particulars of the image. Sure, clever composition, good lens choice, perfect timing, and luck in the lighting-lottery provide some control, but not as much control as is enjoyed by practitioners of the synthetic arts like painting that are not so constrained by reality.
Sure, from my point of view, photography is to find and capture a moment in reality, not in photoshop, that is mostly missed by people and present it to them later, while art will be always unreal, no matter how well the painter know his field. But knowing that there are tons of tools, where is the point in edited photograph from which it will be considered unreal? Does making a basic adjustments like contrast and brightness change its status in this regard?

---------- Post added 09-14-22 at 12:47 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I never would have guessed... I'm going to blame trickery like this in the future for setting impossible standards that I always fail to achieve with my photographs
haha so true!!! Stop thinking that they are better, they show better results because of cheating! But go explain this to end user

---------- Post added 09-14-22 at 13:07 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I was aware that they used all kinds of perspective trickery to make Gandalf look so much bigger than Bilbo though. If you're ever in The Hague, visit the Escher museum. Apart from so many of his art pieces being exhibited there and the building itself being quite beautiful (it is a former palace of Dutch royalty after all... ), there is a checkerboarded room that is distorted such that two people of the same height standing in different corners of the room will look like their height is vastly different from one another when looking at a picture of the room where the proper perspective correction has been applied to produce the desired effect. (I think perspective has to be corrected for the effect to show? See here under "De Scheve Kamer" for a picture of the room from the outside).
so many interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!! Transitions are so cool, I don't remember if I've seen that before. Nice place to go!
09-14-2022, 04:47 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
This is always part of the discussion when the processing police open a conversation about the evils of photo editing. The painter starts with a blank canvas and picks and chooses what (and where) elements will go in the work. The photographer starts with a complete scene. Some of us believe that the photographer has just as much right as the artist to pick and choose (hence Photoshop) while others think that any alteration of the scene is sacrilege.

For me, getting rid of a misplaced trashcan, erasing a dog with its leg up, or even moving a rustic farm house is okay if that's what you want to do.
Indeed!

At issue is the classification of photographs into works of fiction and works of non-fiction.

Some images are so heavily edited that no one would confuse them with reality. But others are more sublte and could mislead the viewer into thinking that is what that place/person/city looks like. Personally, I'd say that photographer's do have a right to use Photoshop in any way they choose but that failure to disclose editing would be unethical. Photographs are food for thought and undisclosed edits are like a food maker not disclosing the artificial colors and flavors they used in the ingredients.

Maybe all photographs should be double-sided: one side of the print shows the photographer's final edits and the backside shows the unedited scene.
09-14-2022, 05:56 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Indeed!

At issue is the classification of photographs into works of fiction and works of non-fiction.

Some images are so heavily edited that no one would confuse them with reality. But others are more sublte and could mislead the viewer into thinking that is what that place/person/city looks like. Personally, I'd say that photographer's do have a right to use Photoshop in any way they choose but that failure to disclose editing would be unethical. Photographs are food for thought and undisclosed edits are like a food maker not disclosing the artificial colors and flavors they used in the ingredients.

Maybe all photographs should be double-sided: one side of the print shows the photographer's final edits and the backside shows the unedited scene.
To me it depends. If the intent is documentary, then movements of pixels should be prohibited. Otherwise, everything's fair game, but I take personal issue (and am not interested in) tools such as sky replacement, or adding someone to a scene where they weren't in the first place. Because to some extent, every photo is documentary, it's implied as such. So I'll remove a bit of litter on a field of green, but will not add your face into my California trip
09-14-2022, 09:32 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Ah, life in the world of photography!

On an outing with another couple to a rural park in the foothills of the local mountains, I took photographs and another person painted. I was forced to live with the existing placements of a particular rustic farm house, dusty trees, hazy mountains, sky, and lighting as they were on that day at that time. She rearranged and rescaled the object, changed the perspective, and adjusted the light as she composed a scene on canvas with bright acrylics.

I captured "reality" as it was in it's lackluster banality. She captured the emotional essence of an old farm building in the foothills.


Photography (especially landscape photography) has the challenge that nature and physics control most of the particulars of the image. Sure, clever composition, good lens choice, perfect timing, and luck in the lighting-lottery provide some control, but not as much control as is enjoyed by practitioners of the synthetic arts like painting that are not so constrained by reality.
This is why it took me decades to wrap my head around photography. I had close friends who were photographers from high school on, but as a drawing/painting person first the idea that I couldn't make adjustments to the composition at will was just alien to me. And still is to some extent. Mainly I use photography (outside of my pro work) for situations where I can't spend enough time to execute a drawing or painting, or for those things where doing it another way would be too arduous, or in those situations where photography shines as a medium.
09-14-2022, 12:43 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
This is why it took me decades to wrap my head around photography. I had close friends who were photographers from high school on, but as a drawing/painting person first the idea that I couldn't make adjustments to the composition at will was just alien to me. And still is to some extent. Mainly I use photography (outside of my pro work) for situations where I can't spend enough time to execute a drawing or painting, or for those things where doing it another way would be too arduous, or in those situations where photography shines as a medium.
Some genres of photography do get to adjust the composition in almost any way they want. Product photographers are masters at this art form. And certainly a big part of photographing people (for fashion & art) is in posing them in carefully selected surroundings with carefully selected props and carefully positioned lighting.

It's landscape photographers who are forced to live with inconveniently arranged clouds, poorly spaced layers in rock walls, trees that aren't perfectly full all the way round, and a sun that sometimes would be sooo much better if it would be willing to set to the north sometime (besides above the Arctic circle).

Even the drawing/painting people need to learn to respect the physical geometry of perspective unless they want to dance off into the worlds of Escher, Dali, and Cubism.



Of course, if it were all so very easy, it would not be worth doing!

Last edited by photoptimist; 09-14-2022 at 12:51 PM.
09-14-2022, 01:20 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
For me, getting rid of a misplaced trashcan, erasing a dog with its leg up, or even moving a rustic farm house is okay if that's what you want to do.
Every time I erase something unwanted, somewhere in the back of my mind I'm asking myself if I'm doing something that will negatively impact my image later, but I'm doing it anyway.
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