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Macro choice
Posted By: pgamble, 09-10-2014, 09:39 AM

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Hi all


I have most lenses I need and had hoped my Sigma 17-70 C lens which allows circa .2m focus would meet macro needs ... but whilst it's a great lens for most things, it's not quite the quality I want for ultra close ups.


I'm thinking I would like a 90 to 120mm prime macro lens and really want the best handling, best built lens that ensures the highest keep rate of the sharpest, brightest images possible.


My first choice was the Pentax smc DFA 100mm f2.8 WR Macro. Autofocus isn't supposed to be great .. and it would be good to at least have that work well when using for portrait etc ... but I could live with that as most Macro would be manual focus ... but technical reviews going back a long way suggest it wasn't great from resolution perspective even when used with a K5 ... DxO was one of those reviews. Given we are now using a much more detailed K3 .. surely that is not a great place to start ... even though web images do look good.


Sigma doesn't have it's 105 or 150 on k mount which is a shame ...


The only other options seems like the Tamron 90. I've been reluctant to look that way because of build quality, but reviews do seem to suggest the Macros are an exception and indeed a highlight for Tamron ... but again ... it's an old lens and surely not matched to what should be available for a body like the K3.


I don't want to buy a dedicated lens if it won't offer very significant benefits over the Sigma 17-70 (which is pretty good ... just not exceptional) ... what do people suggest ?


Cheers

Paul.
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09-10-2014, 09:47 AM   #2
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Thread moved to proper forum. I thought you might get better coverage in the Macro Photography forum rather than the K-3 forum, as that only deals with the camera not the lenses.

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09-10-2014, 09:48 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
Sigma doesn't have it's 105
I just purchased one of these used from Adorama. You might also want to check out the Marketplace here.
09-10-2014, 10:02 AM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
Autofocus isn't supposed to be great .. and it would be good to at least have that work well when using for portrait etc
This is inaccurate, the AF works quite well. Except that this is a macro lens with a very long focus throw, so it is not going to focus quickly. But describing it as not working well is just not correct. The long focus throw is unusual for AF lenses, but is needed if the lens is to be good at manual focus, which is important for a macro.

09-10-2014, 10:25 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
This is inaccurate, the AF works quite well. Except that this is a macro lens with a very long focus throw, so it is not going to focus quickly. But describing it as not working well is just not correct. The long focus throw is unusual for AF lenses, but is needed if the lens is to be good at manual focus, which is important for a macro.
Thanks all.


I think the complaint re the auto focus related to the lack of focus lock which meant that if you were using the lens for non Macro and it missed initial focus, the long throw and hunting resulted in inordinately long focus times. As said, either way, I don't think that would be an issue for me.


What I want is something that provides a significant improvement on an otherwise good close up zoom like the 17-70. My worry is that Pentax lens doesn't appear to receive good technical review ... even from years ago ... I know technical and actual subjective image quality are often different things ... but it is just a worry.


I'll follow on correct forum now :-)


Paul
09-10-2014, 10:42 AM   #6
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SMC Pentax-D FA 100mm F2.8 Macro WR Reviews - D FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
One of the highest rated lenses in the database. The only area it gets gigged is with the AF, which I think is unfair. If it had the snappy AF of the DA 70 then the manual focus would be less than optimal.
QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
but technical reviews going back a long way suggest it wasn't great from resolution perspective even when used with a K5 ... DxO was one of those reviews.
Curious what technical reviews you are concerned about? The only lens I own that I think might be sharper is the F 50mm macro. I've used the DFA 100mm WR on k-5, k-5IIs and k-3.

Build quality is similar to the DA limited line, in other words about as good as it gets. Sorry to sound like a fan, but I love this lens, it delivers excellent images in all kinds of situations. Would not want you to give it a pass because of a review that may or may not be accurate. Real world results are more important to me.
09-10-2014, 11:06 AM   #7
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There is no review on DPR by DPR of the Pentax 100mm WR lens. There are, however, 4 user reviews, 3 of which score it 5/5, the 4th 4.5/5, this last one being a comment on the AF.

IMHO DPR reviews are not too good, so if you are using them as a buying aid proceed with caution!

The user review average on this site is 9.62.

It's a great lens. I've got one. Just buy it, you won't be disappointed.

09-10-2014, 11:56 AM   #8
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The DFA100mm WR macro is a great lens, as is the FA 100mm f2.8 macro (though uglier).
The slow focusing of the WR when using it as a tele lens (for portrait and stuff) can be handled by manually focusing to infinity before hitting the AF button.
FA 100mm macro has focus limiter, so that takes care of the problem.
09-10-2014, 12:00 PM   #9
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FWIW, as you may not be looking at a manual focus lens, I own a Pentax 100/4 macro lens, as well as a Lester Dine 100/2.8 (Kiron) macro lens. These are extremely well built, esp. the Lester Dine, and every now and hen tone pops up on the forum. with very reasonable prices. I've never felt the need to have auto focus, and I know of several photographers who never use auto focus when doing macro work, even though they have it available. Depth of field, plane of focus and other non-lens factors like using mirror lock-up and having a solid low-capability tripod etc. are more important in macro photography, I think than having auto focus. If you have focus peaking available, manual focus will be an extremely precise way of getting pin-sharp photos. A long throw is probably an inherent part of any macro lens design, so using it for purposes other than that for which it was designed and wishing for good auto focus is almost by definition not ideal. I'm just putting this out there in case you hadn't considered a manual lens.
09-10-2014, 12:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
There is no review on DPR by DPR of the Pentax 100mm WR lens. There are, however, 4 user reviews, 3 of which score it 5/5, the 4th 4.5/5, this last one being a comment on the AF.

IMHO DPR reviews are not too good, so if you are using them as a buying aid proceed with caution!

The user review average on this site is 9.62.

It's a great lens. I've got one. Just buy it, you won't be disappointed.
Tests and reviews for the lens Pentax smc D FA MACRO 100mm F2.8 WR - DxOMark - sharpness / resolution seems to get a very poor result. I have to confess, I struggle with this because I love the DA*300 which didn't do great .. but it does suggest that the lens isn't meeting capabilities of the K5, let alone the K3. I would want the lens no to be the limiting factor in imaging.


How is there this disconnect with apparent image reviews and technical performance ?


Paul.
09-10-2014, 01:01 PM   #11
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I own the Tamron 90, and it's my most used lens. Absolutely love it. I had the older generation Sigma 17-70 (f/2.8-4.5), and while it took great pictures, the macro ability wasn't what I was looking for. My buddy has the Sigma 105mm ( a lens praised for its build quality), and while it does feel a little heavier/beefier, and not as "plasticky", I don't see it as any better than the Tamron for that reason. The Tamron is plasticky feeling, but it's weight feels good, and it's not like people are throwing these things at walls. For me, I understand that it's an expensive piece of electronics, so I treat it as such, and am careful. I would also think the build quality must be pretty decent for them to slap a 6-year warranty on a new model (if you purchased it in Canada, believe it's three years for the US). If they thought they were going to have to replace it early in the game, I don't think they'd be slapping such a long warranty on it. They'd go with a crappy one-year warranty, and call it a day.

As the others have said, you'll get great image quality from nearly any macro lens, and since a lot of macro work is done shooting manually, a lens like the Pentax 100mm f/4 is really a bargain on all fronts. You get the sturdy metal build, you'd be stopping down past f/4 anyway, and you get the great Pentax color rendering. I like my Tamron because it gives ideal macro results as soon as I stop down to f/8, plus I can shoot portraits wide-open, and it doesn't have the super-sharp, unflattering for people factor, to it. The slower auto-focus doesn't matter to me because the person is stationary. The Tamron being an older lens is a non-factor, as old M series Pentax macro lenses rock on any camera. They haven't changed anything on it for a reason -- it delivers. The Sigma 105mm shows up in the Marketplace every now and then (believe there is one on there right now for about $280), and can sometimes be found on eBay, too. So a few options.

Every lens mentioned in this thread will give better results than the 17-70 -- I guarantee you that.

Just a few thoughts.

---------- Post added 09-10-14 at 01:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
Tests and reviews for the lens Pentax smc D FA MACRO 100mm F2.8 WR - DxOMark - sharpness / resolution seems to get a very poor result. I have to confess, I struggle with this because I love the DA*300 which didn't do great .. but it does suggest that the lens isn't meeting capabilities of the K5, let alone the K3. I would want the lens no to be the limiting factor in imaging.


How is there this disconnect with apparent image reviews and technical performance ?


Paul.
While I love to read reviews, I trust the samples that people post. Look at the results of some of these lenses in the various lens clubs, or do a little Googling. I don't have the experience of some of the other board members, but I trust my eyes. A lot of the stuff they talk about in reviews (corner softness in particular) isn't nearly as noticeable to me (if at all) as they make it sound. Or it would disappear when cropping, anyway. Plus they may have gotten a lesser quality sample. Sample quality is always a factor, unfortunately. That's why I like buying used lenses from PF members, as they have the body of work from the lens, and I know what I'm getting into.

Any respectable macro lens, some practice using it, and some light -- will deliver for you
09-10-2014, 01:22 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
I think the complaint re the auto focus related to the lack of focus lock which meant that if you were using the lens for non Macro and it missed initial focus, the long throw and hunting resulted in inordinately long focus times. As said, either way, I don't think that would be an issue for me.
I can speak to the non-WR version of the 100mm on a k100d and k5iis. At 'normal' distances where I'd use autofocus the focus throw is short and it's quite fast. Assuming it doesn't miss focus. When it misses and has to hunt you get into the long focus throw of the close up range and it's game over. This happened enough with the k100d behind it that I pretty much gave up on AF at any distance. The k5iis is another story, it rarely misses and I'm happy to use AF for portraits etc. I'd expect with the k-3 it would be even better.

The camera is an important part of the AF equation.

As to the sharpness tests, meh, my copy seems pretty darn fine.
09-10-2014, 01:43 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
Tests and reviews for the lens Pentax smc D FA MACRO 100mm F2.8 WR - DxOMark - sharpness / resolution seems to get a very poor result. I have to confess, I struggle with this because I love the DA*300 which didn't do great .. but it does suggest that the lens isn't meeting capabilities of the K5, let alone the K3. I would want the lens no to be the limiting factor in imaging.


How is there this disconnect with apparent image reviews and technical performance ?


Paul.
DxO doesn't rate any Pentax lens any good, because they shoot their tests in low light and Pentax doesn't have any 1.4 glass or any sensors that excel in low light. Using DxO to look at Pentax gear is a complete waste of time.

The 100 macro is a great lens. If you want WR, that's what you want. The Tamron 90 is a great lens, if WR isn't important then thats' what you want.

If you want maximum reach the Sigma 105 is what you want...
http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=Sigam+105+macro+Penax

Last edited by normhead; 09-10-2014 at 01:51 PM.
09-10-2014, 01:58 PM   #14
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I'd say if you want to hand hold macro, a 50mm macro is much easier to steady. I recently got the Sigma 70, and it's a brilliant lens, but hand holding shots at 1:1 is significantly more challenging than when I use the DA35 Macro Limited. If you are planning on shooting things that stay still, I'd advise going to a 50mm. Another tip, buy used from the forum, if it doesn't work out, just sell it along for no loss, buy something else (longer or shorter, or whatever).
09-10-2014, 02:32 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
The only other options seems like the Tamron 90. I've been reluctant to look that way because of build quality, but reviews do seem to suggest the Macros are an exception and indeed a highlight for Tamron ... but again ... it's an old lens and surely not matched to what should be available for a body like the K3.
I think you need to read up a little more.... [URL="http://www.photozone.de/pentax/362-tamron-af-90mm-f28-di-sp-macro-pentax-"]http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/282-tamron-af-90mm-f28-di-sp-macro-test-report--review

I own the 90 SP Di which is the newer version and it's very highly regarded and not just for it's 1:1 macro.
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