Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-12-2015, 12:23 PM   #16
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
TER-OR's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dundee, IL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,699
Long macro was one of my primary reasons for buying a DSLR. I bought a used FA100 f2.8 as my second or third lens. For a long time my kit was a DA 16-45, a Tamron 70-300, and that DA100. I added a few lenses along the way, based on what I wanted to do but couldn't. Or just for fun, like the DA 10-17 fisheye which I *had* to buy after renting over the holidays.

Take your time.

I use the macro in the field all the time, except when it's rainy, and lack of WR hasn't been an issue.

02-12-2015, 12:28 PM - 1 Like   #17
Veteran Member
UserAccessDenied's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,677
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by TER-OR Quote
Long macro was one of my primary reasons for buying a DSLR. I bought a used FA100 f2.8 as my second or third lens. For a long time my kit was a DA 16-45, a Tamron 70-300, and that DA100. I added a few lenses along the way, based on what I wanted to do but couldn't. Or just for fun, like the DA 10-17 fisheye which I *had* to buy after renting over the holidays.

Take your time.

I use the macro in the field all the time, except when it's rainy, and lack of WR hasn't been an issue.
Thanks for all the advice...

Just purchased a Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro from a member here.

Very excited to give it a try!


I'm gonna experiment with turning it into lab equipment too with all the extension tubes and reverse rings I just ordered as well... THIS should be interesting
02-12-2015, 02:17 PM - 1 Like   #18
GUB
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
GUB's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wanganui
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,735
QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Thanks for all the advice...

Just purchased a Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro from a member here.

Very excited to give it a try!


I'm gonna experiment with turning it into lab equipment too with all the extension tubes and reverse rings I just ordered as well... THIS should be interesting
It is all good advice here but there is one thing I feel should be pointed out to newcomers to macro. That is the biggest obstacle you will come up against in macro is a wafer thin depth of field.
And for all the variations above and for all the money you may spend it is important to realize that:
For any given format (apsc here)
for any given magnification
for any given effective aperture
THE DOF IS THE SAME.
That includes all the setups discussed above.
No amount of money will change this.
The wafer thin DOF is a task master that you have to learn to work with to get an effective image and use to enhance your image (isolating it from the background).
Don't go blaming your gear.

Last edited by GUB; 02-12-2015 at 02:19 PM. Reason: correction
02-12-2015, 03:49 PM   #19
Veteran Member
UserAccessDenied's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,677
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
It is all good advice here but there is one thing I feel should be pointed out to newcomers to macro. That is the biggest obstacle you will come up against in macro is a wafer thin depth of field.
And for all the variations above and for all the money you may spend it is important to realize that:
For any given format (apsc here)
for any given magnification
for any given effective aperture
THE DOF IS THE SAME.
That includes all the setups discussed above.
No amount of money will change this.
The wafer thin DOF is a task master that you have to learn to work with to get an effective image and use to enhance your image (isolating it from the background).
Don't go blaming your gear.
Note taken... Thank you!

I'll always blame myself as I have very limited experience and I've seen some of the most amazing images come from $1 throw away cameras before.
The most important piece of gear is usually 8 inches behind the sensor...

02-12-2015, 07:01 PM   #20
Veteran Member
old4570's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,551
The 50mm F1.7 lens will work a treat for starting out in Macro
A 49mm Tube will give you about 1:1 Macro ...
I advise you buy tubes with aperture levers ...
And the secret to macro is light , you need light ... ( Flash possibly )
02-12-2015, 08:00 PM   #21
GUB
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
GUB's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wanganui
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,735
QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
but to say it will be the same across apertures is just wrong
That is not what I was saying.

For a given format
At the same Magnification
At the same effective aperture
all makes and models of lens and lens setups will have the same DoF .

We worked on this in old4570s macro guide post ;
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/177-macro-photography/283849-macro-guide-part-1-a.html
And I think we achieved consensus on it before the discussion went all technical.

EDIT; Had to check!!
These are great tutorials
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/macro-lenses.htm

Last edited by GUB; 02-12-2015 at 08:16 PM.
02-12-2015, 09:49 PM   #22
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
K-Three's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pugetopolis, WA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 935
A point I never saw answered in all these great suggestions,
What is the target subject matter?
Insects, flowers, coins, machinery, electronics?

If you are looking to chase live insects around a garden, you need different magnification and lighting set up vs. live flowers in the garden vs. static indoor subjects,
Are you looking to set this up in a studio, or on a bench, or use it on-the-go in the field?

The more you magnify, the bigger problem motion becomes, for both camera and subject. Get a remote release,

I'd recommend a good solid tripod, that is quick and easy to adjust, Reversing column is not that great of a feature, it's hard to get your head inside the legs, better to get one with legs that can be spread wide, consider one without a (or with a removable) center column, you can drop right flat onto the ground.

All the lighting suggestions above could work, depending on your subject.
Ring lights are OK, but give a very flat, sterile light, everything looks the same under them, makes for a very technical, "Field guide" quality to bugs and flowers. Unless you are cataloging things, you will get tired of that light quality quickly.
Get a bracket to get your flash off the axis of the lens, and get some direction to the light through your scene, you can work with your built-in pop-up flash to provide some fill while triggering your main flash off camera, with the right unit or an optical slave on the off camera flash, you don't need a cord between the camera and the flash unit. Most of the best brackets get modified by the users to their needs and gear, I'd hate to recommend an off the shelf solution.

It's good you found a 100 mm lens, for most macro work, longer is better, especially if you really want to get closer than 1:1; your working distance gets frustratingly close, no room to get lights in, and live critters don't cooperate. Even 100 mm at greater than 1:1 has a short working distance.

The main thing I can suggest, is don't go crazy buying stuff right away, the kit you described is a good start, play around with it, shoot all the crazy combinations you can come up with and look at your results, compare lighting and focus for different combinations of magnification and light sources. Get to know your gear, and how it works in different set ups and conditions. Post results for feedback and criticisms, this forum is a tremendous resource.

You have a great advantage over many of us here on the forum, you can learn this digitally, where every shot is essentially free, us oldsters learned these things on film, that cost us $ for every press of the button whether it was a good shot or not. You can just wipe the card and start over again.
Have fun with it!

02-13-2015, 06:31 AM   #23
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
baro-nite's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,294
QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Let's say I were to add the 49mm of extension tubes to the body, attach the 100mm F4 Macro, then reverse the 50mm 1.7...
We're talking a massive amount of "stuff" on the business end of my K-30, but also a significant magnification (~2.5:1 )
dcshooter is correct, extension plus stacked lenses is likely to result in vignetting.

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
This is precisely why the Q series make great macro setup, since you can achieve the same shot of your bug or whatever from 3 feet away, getting it entirely in focus, that on your K-3 would require being right on top of your subject.
If you include diffraction effects, the Q's advantage largely disappears. With a larger sensor you can use a much higher f-number without significant diffraction than you can on the Q. The greater working distance of the Q is still an advantage, though, whether photographing insects in the field, or doing studio work where short working distance can limit your lighting setup.
02-13-2015, 07:50 AM   #24
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,332
QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
For a given format
At the same Magnification
At the same effective aperture
all makes and models of lens and lens setups will have the same DoF .
Pupil magnification matters at macro magnifications and this varies based on lens design. I gave these two links before: a worked out example and the gory DoF equations

This doesn't change the point you've brought up though- the DoF gets teeny at high magnifications.
02-13-2015, 09:02 AM   #25
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
baro-nite's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,294
QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
I find that I can do just as well diffraction-wise and significantly better DOF-wise at f/4 (below the Q's diffraction threshold) than I can with the same lens at f/16 on the K5 with similarly-framed subjects.
I've only done one direct comparison test under reasonably controlled conditions; I found f/5.6 on the Q roughly similar in both sharpness and DOF to f/16 on the K10D using the same lens and similarly-framed subjects. I do use the Q for macro, because of the greater working distance, lack of mirror slap and reduced shutter vibration, and small size and weight. I am just unable to find any meaningful, practical DOF advantage.
02-14-2015, 02:57 PM - 1 Like   #26
Veteran Member
UserAccessDenied's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,677
Original Poster
As promised: Here are my first ever attempts at macro...

K-30, Rikenon 50mm F1.7 with 49mm of tubes, onboard flash and 2 pieces of printer paper...
my $26 macro setup (minus the K-30 of course).


I'm also starting to learn about the need for an external flash, lol. These were all done with on-board flash and pieces of paper folded over depending on intensity needed.

I know I need better test subjects but it's raining here and I don't really feel like setting up an umbrella to shoot outside... Maybe next time







02-14-2015, 03:02 PM   #27
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
baro-nite's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,294
QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Here are my first ever attempts at macro...
Well done! Paper diffusers can work really well. If you can hold or affix the paper toward the front of the lens you can get very diffused and natural looking light.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
100mm, 1:1, 1:2, 49mm, 50mm, extension, f4, lens, love, macro, noob, piece, setup, shots, tubes
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I am going to travel to U.S.A (to work) in winter and i would like your advice carlosodze General Talk 13 06-15-2014 07:19 AM
Please help, i am about to buy a k-30 and i need some advice (mabe a lot). carlosodze Pentax K-30 & K-50 15 05-20-2013 11:11 PM
I Upgraded thanks to your advice, now need some assitance Sig0431 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 14 03-01-2013 06:28 AM
Buying a new notebook, need your advice. Recercare Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 19 11-22-2010 01:26 PM
I need advice on Macro lens purchase. mrjamesabels Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 11 09-06-2010 07:15 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top