Macro Macro advice setup

chrisca70 · 04-27-2015, 11:08 AM

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Reviving this old thread.

I'm looking for an affordable set-up that will render quality images of small moths that are 5mm-15mm. The moths will be pinned and in a controlled environment (this is for Natural History Museum collections cataloging). From some posts I can conclude that I can get a Pentax F 28mm or an M 50mm F/1.7 reversed on extension tubes. Which of these lenses is best? Can you help me check if the items below are the right choices? -Thank you!! BTW I have a K-5IIs

F 28mm on eBay, is this the right lens? LINK

Extension tubes the right ones? LINK

52mm Reverse adapter LINK

chrisca70 · 05-01-2015, 05:45 AM

Anyone? would really appreciate the input...

photolady95 · 05-01-2015, 06:16 AM

HI, I've created a new thread for you where you should get better advice. I've placed it in the "Macro Photography" forum.

marcusyoung · 05-01-2015, 10:12 AM

Using reverse ring for 28 mm yield about 2.6 X magnification, I think. I have the same ring and used that before. Focus is done thru moving forward and backward to find the point of focus. Depth of field depends on F stop and as you step down to f11 and smaller, viewfinder becomes dim and find the point of focus is a challenge. at f5.6 and f9 I think its ok, normal lighting. Also this set up is prone to glare if flash is used.

Working distance is short too, about 21/2 inches, using my memory and have not do an exact measurement.. But if its a still subject, it should be ok.

Reverse 50 mm lens will probably yield a 1:1 magnification. I have not try reverse 50 mm so its just my guess.

Using the extension tubes on 28 mm will also yield you some magnification but I have never do a measurement on that. I bought one before and have find it not being useful as it has no aperture couplings and viewfinder is dim when trying to find point of focus. The 28 mm on tube will probably touch the subject you are focusing.. 50 mm on tubes will give you additional working distance but lesser magnification compare to 28mm.

In short , I will probably go for 28 mm reverse ring if I want a higher magnification or 50 mm if I want 1:1 magnification. Just my preference but I own both the reverse ring and the low cost extension tube bought many years ago.

marcus

**Hornet** · 05-01-2015, 05:22 PM

This is a difficult question to answer without better knowledge of your requirements. You say the moths are 5-15mm long. If all you want is a full body shot then staying with a 1:1 setup (either a true macro lens or a prime lens on extension tubes at f11 to 16) and cropping should provide the depth of field and detail suitable for viewing on a monitor or 8x12 prints. If you are interested in smaller structures like legs or eyes and scale patterns then higher magnification may be warranted but you will lose depth of field. You may want to look into stacking software and hardware approaches to produce the best shots but this will add considerable time to the process. When documenting a collection the time required for each shot is often a crucial concern.

For a wide range of magnifications you may want to consider using bellows instead of extension tubes.

Not a Number · 05-01-2015, 07:17 PM

See the post linked below on some of the magnification ratios on reverse mounted lens without lens stacking or tubes. This is only effective on lenses with a focal length less than 50mm, With 50mm lenses or longer you should reverse them (on extension tubes or bellows, not lens stacking) with greater than 1x magnification. Refer to he Pentax Auto Bellows K, M and A manuals which give the reason for this and I'm to lazy to find my earlier posts on this.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/22-pentax-camera-field-accessories/287960...ml#post3155624

old4570 · 05-02-2015, 12:12 AM

U-r going to be in a controlled environment :
What is the goal ?

Are the images Portraits ( Macro Portraits ) or some sort of detailed study requiring super close up?

Is speed of concern ?

Buy a Macro Lens , 28mm for 5mm Subjects = Not a good choice ..
Are you going to be image stacking ?

If not , I would recommend a 100mm Macro lens ( 1:1 ) , If you need more macro , you can lens stack a 50mm in front for 2:1 Macro ..
If you have macro skills up the wazoo , then chose tubes or bellows ..
If not , a 100mm Macro lens with Aperture ( A ) control would be the way to go ..

The variables are - Whats required ( pictures ) - the equipment needed ( to get the pictures ) - and your skill ... ( get good pictures )

Sounds like you have a very interesting time ahead of you ..
Is there some where to rent a lens ?
Like maybe a 105 Sigma , or maybe a 150mm Sigma , or a 180mm Sigma , or maybe a Close focus 500mm Sigma .
I would like to know = Whats expected !
Did they provide you with a sample ? ( photo's )

Aaron28 · 05-02-2015, 07:20 AM

anything old4570 recommends will be of great help......one of the best macro photographers on here that I recognize by name....

Not a Number · 05-02-2015, 11:40 AM

From your equipment choices above it would seem you are working on a practically a non-existent budget. If we had an idea of what your budget is would help on recommendations.

Do the images between specimen have to reflect relative size (i.e. shot at the same magnification) or will a scale be provided and differing magnifications can be used on a per subject basis?

How cramped is the work area where you will be photographing the specimens? Longer focal lengths give you more working distance between the front of the lens and the subject. This make lighting easier but can be a problem in cramped quarters.

How much magnification is needed? Consider the dimensions of the APS-C (crop) sensor in Pentax cameras is usually listed as 23.5 × 15.7mm.

So at 1x magnification a 15mm long/wide object would take up ~64% of the length of the sensor. A 5mm long object only ~21%.
At 2x magnification the 5mm object would take about 43%

Looking at the manual for the Pentax Auto Bellow-A (all lenses set to infinity):
for the Pentax M-50mm and A-50mm f/1.7 lenses (non-reversed)
values magnification, extension (mm), working distance (mm)
0.8, 42, 93
1.0, 52, 80
The same lenses reversed
1.0, 61, 90
2.0, 113, 64
3.0, 165, 56
M-Macro 100mm f/4 (non-reversed)
0.4, 40, 340
0.5, 50, 290
0.8, 80, 215
1.0, 100, 190
reversed - not given, not recommended.

04-27-2015, 11:08 AM	#1
chrisca70 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 81	Macro advice setup Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Reviving this old thread. I'm looking for an affordable set-up that will render quality images of small moths that are 5mm-15mm. The moths will be pinned and in a controlled environment (this is for Natural History Museum collections cataloging). From some posts I can conclude that I can get a Pentax F 28mm or an M 50mm F/1.7 reversed on extension tubes. Which of these lenses is best? Can you help me check if the items below are the right choices? -Thank you!! BTW I have a K-5IIs F 28mm on eBay, is this the right lens? LINK Extension tubes the right ones? LINK 52mm Reverse adapter LINK

05-01-2015, 05:22 PM	#5
Hornet Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Victoria, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 169	This is a difficult question to answer without better knowledge of your requirements. You say the moths are 5-15mm long. If all you want is a full body shot then staying with a 1:1 setup (either a true macro lens or a prime lens on extension tubes at f11 to 16) and cropping should provide the depth of field and detail suitable for viewing on a monitor or 8x12 prints. If you are interested in smaller structures like legs or eyes and scale patterns then higher magnification may be warranted but you will lose depth of field. You may want to look into stacking software and hardware approaches to produce the best shots but this will add considerable time to the process. When documenting a collection the time required for each shot is often a crucial concern. For a wide range of magnifications you may want to consider using bellows instead of extension tubes. Last edited by Hornet; 05-01-2015 at 08:38 PM.

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05-01-2015, 05:45 AM	#2
chrisca70 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 81 Original Poster	Anyone? would really appreciate the input...

05-01-2015, 06:16 AM	#3
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	HI, I've created a new thread for you where you should get better advice. I've placed it in the "Macro Photography" forum.

05-01-2015, 10:12 AM	#4
marcusyoung Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: singapore Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,123	Using reverse ring for 28 mm yield about 2.6 X magnification, I think. I have the same ring and used that before. Focus is done thru moving forward and backward to find the point of focus. Depth of field depends on F stop and as you step down to f11 and smaller, viewfinder becomes dim and find the point of focus is a challenge. at f5.6 and f9 I think its ok, normal lighting. Also this set up is prone to glare if flash is used. Working distance is short too, about 21/2 inches, using my memory and have not do an exact measurement.. But if its a still subject, it should be ok. Reverse 50 mm lens will probably yield a 1:1 magnification. I have not try reverse 50 mm so its just my guess. Using the extension tubes on 28 mm will also yield you some magnification but I have never do a measurement on that. I bought one before and have find it not being useful as it has no aperture couplings and viewfinder is dim when trying to find point of focus. The 28 mm on tube will probably touch the subject you are focusing.. 50 mm on tubes will give you additional working distance but lesser magnification compare to 28mm. In short , I will probably go for 28 mm reverse ring if I want a higher magnification or 50 mm if I want 1:1 magnification. Just my preference but I own both the reverse ring and the low cost extension tube bought many years ago. marcus

05-01-2015, 07:17 PM	#6
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	See the post linked below on some of the magnification ratios on reverse mounted lens without lens stacking or tubes. This is only effective on lenses with a focal length less than 50mm, With 50mm lenses or longer you should reverse them (on extension tubes or bellows, not lens stacking) with greater than 1x magnification. Refer to he Pentax Auto Bellows K, M and A manuals which give the reason for this and I'm to lazy to find my earlier posts on this. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/22-pentax-camera-field-accessories/287960...ml#post3155624

05-02-2015, 12:12 AM	#7
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551	U-r going to be in a controlled environment : What is the goal ? Are the images Portraits ( Macro Portraits ) or some sort of detailed study requiring super close up? Is speed of concern ? Buy a Macro Lens , 28mm for 5mm Subjects = Not a good choice .. Are you going to be image stacking ? If not , I would recommend a 100mm Macro lens ( 1:1 ) , If you need more macro , you can lens stack a 50mm in front for 2:1 Macro .. If you have macro skills up the wazoo , then chose tubes or bellows .. If not , a 100mm Macro lens with Aperture ( A ) control would be the way to go .. The variables are - Whats required ( pictures ) - the equipment needed ( to get the pictures ) - and your skill ... ( get good pictures ) Sounds like you have a very interesting time ahead of you .. Is there some where to rent a lens ? Like maybe a 105 Sigma , or maybe a 150mm Sigma , or a 180mm Sigma , or maybe a Close focus 500mm Sigma . I would like to know = Whats expected ! Did they provide you with a sample ? ( photo's )

05-02-2015, 07:20 AM	#8
Aaron28 Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,131	anything old4570 recommends will be of great help......one of the best macro photographers on here that I recognize by name....

05-02-2015, 11:40 AM	#9
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	From your equipment choices above it would seem you are working on a practically a non-existent budget. If we had an idea of what your budget is would help on recommendations. Do the images between specimen have to reflect relative size (i.e. shot at the same magnification) or will a scale be provided and differing magnifications can be used on a per subject basis? How cramped is the work area where you will be photographing the specimens? Longer focal lengths give you more working distance between the front of the lens and the subject. This make lighting easier but can be a problem in cramped quarters. How much magnification is needed? Consider the dimensions of the APS-C (crop) sensor in Pentax cameras is usually listed as 23.5 × 15.7mm. So at 1x magnification a 15mm long/wide object would take up ~64% of the length of the sensor. A 5mm long object only ~21%. At 2x magnification the 5mm object would take about 43% Looking at the manual for the Pentax Auto Bellow-A (all lenses set to infinity): for the Pentax M-50mm and A-50mm f/1.7 lenses (non-reversed) values magnification, extension (mm), working distance (mm) 0.8, 42, 93 1.0, 52, 80 The same lenses reversed 1.0, 61, 90 2.0, 113, 64 3.0, 165, 56 M-Macro 100mm f/4 (non-reversed) 0.4, 40, 340 0.5, 50, 290 0.8, 80, 215 1.0, 100, 190 reversed - not given, not recommended.