[stevebrot]

What would be my best way forward, after getting my reverse lens setup going, to get even higher magnification?

Extreme Macro Photography

Also, I asked about forum specific stuff, and this doesn't answer my question.

To answer your question, RE: increasing magnification

• With a simply reversed lens, as with a non-reversed lens, you increase magnification by increasing extension
• You may also get greater magnification, reversed, by using a shorter focal length. 28mm is usually suggested.
• With the two lens method, simply use the combination of lenses you need for the desired reproduction ratio

Eventually you will find yourself at the ragged edges of the ability to focus with whatever focus rail you are using and also the amount of light available to frame and focus with! The solution for those higher magnifications is something called a "stereo dissecting (or dissection) microscope" which is designed for use with reflected light. Hobbiest models capable of accepting a camera adapter are available on sale for less than a good macro lens.

http://www.amscope.com/stereo-microscopes/coin-stamp-stereo-microscopes.html


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 02-13-2017 at 12:03 PM.

[Not a Number]

The answers for you first question are on the Extreme Macro site (at risk of repeating much of @stevebrot ):

Example:
I'd recommend to start out with Raynox (or other achromatic) adapters at first. Adapters get you to about 3:1 or so. ...
from Field And studio techniques for extreme macro photography using diopters, enlarging lenses and other optics

Or
Reversed Lens Magnification: The more distance you put between the lens and the body, the higher the magnification.

So, for example, extension tubes or bellows are both a simple way to increase this distance, and subsequent magnification. Bellows are therefore especially handy because by altering the bellows you can change the magnification that you obtain, as are extension tubes ...
from Reverse one lens onto another for extreme macro ...

Or
A coupled reversed lens, also known as macro stacking or coupling lenses, is a great way to get to more extreme macro magnifications such as 4:1 - a nice way to do macro without a macro lens. ...
from Coupling lenses for extreme macro

There are also nice tidbits on what you need, the pros and cons of the various techniques and calculators so you can figure out magnification and other "bellows factors".

If you have specific questions then ask them.

Except for microscope objectives you will be using lenses reversed so the techniques are basically the same with bellows and tubes. As such I don't see the need to start a new thread but you can if you wish. The moderators can always split or combine threads as they see fit.

For extreme macro a 1× macro lens won't gain you anything over a 0.5× macro because when you reverse the lens you lose the built-in extension. A 1× macro will be more convenient because you can get 1× without using tubes in the field.

There's also the Laowa 60mm f/2.8 that goes up to 2×. I don't think I'd use it on tubes or bellows though.

[Nass]

Just a quick follow-up: What would be my best way forward, after getting my reverse lens setup going, to get even higher magnification? My initial thought was 1x macro lenses, but I already got 1x magnification(and beyond) with this setup. Would any of you recommend a bellows? Should I open a new topic for this? I'm asking because, at what point is buying all these accesories more expensive than "just" buying more expensive macro lenses? Bellows sound promising because I am currently trying focus stacking.

If you reverse an old enlarger 28 or 35, you can get to around 5:1 with perfectly reasonable quality. Then to go beyond this, there are again various options, and using a microscope objective in conjunction with a tube lens is the most popular of these. There are lenses that do go to 5:1 or close to it, I haven't tried the Venus or Zhongyi lenses myself so can't vouch for them. I can vouch for Canon MPE65, but that's Canon, not Pentax.

If you have a zoom like an 80-200 I'd use a Raynox on the front, this makes your entry into extreme macro relatively comfortable as you still have aperture and focus control. 1x macro lenses are great at what they do but they're not the most common tool used for extreme, >1:1 macro. But yes you can reverse a lens onto them for decent macro ratio. Ie I imagine you might have a 100mm 1:1, reverse a 35 onto that and you're looking at 3:1 or so.

Another route to greater magnification is a lens further away from your sensor. That's why extension tubes work, they just put different distances between lens and sensor to achieve different magnifications. A bellows is the next step if you like, it's a variable length extension tube, that's all. You certainly can stack with bellows but the control is relatively coarse compared to a stage, which lets you make smaller/finer incremental movements.

Nobody can tell you though what is and isn't a waste of money accessory on your part, since the truth is that there are more than one ways to achieve the same end result and when trying one way, you might find yourself wanting something slightly 'better' as such. Can't read your mind

Good luck

[stevebrot]

Nobody can tell you though what is and isn't a waste of money accessory on your part, since the truth is that there are more than one ways to achieve the same end result and when trying one way, you might find yourself wanting something slightly 'better' as such. Can't read your mind

You nailed it! There are many ways to attain high magnification and some are more involved than others. I usually suggest the cheapest and simplest route to 1:1 first as a way for the user to experience the five demons of macro work:

1. Narrow DOF
2. Attaining focus
3. No light to see with and even less for the exposure
4. Working distance
5. Subject staging

If I were doing a lot of it and I were rich, my macro setup would include a competent focus rail, focus stage, macro-specific lighting, a couple of different bellows, a selection of extension tubes and reversing rings, a motorized stage for automated stacking ($$$), and a selection of lens of different focal length to allow flexibility in working distance. Alas, I am not rich.


Steve

[Racer X 69]

Bellows sound promising because I am currently trying focus stacking.

I have bellows and extension tubes, and have used them together before.

[Not a Number]

I have bellows and extension tubes, and have used them together before.

Yes, tubes can be used with bellows. You can even couple two bellows together with extension tubes. The tricky part is aligning and supporting the rails but should not be too much of a challenge to fabricate something if you have the tools and the skills. One of the Pentax manuals even says to link two bellows together for more extension. I'd hate to see what exposure factor adjustment would be like.

[stevebrot]

Bellows sound promising because I am currently trying focus stacking.

Be aware that unless the bellows includes a geared focus rail (over/under design) there is no advantage for focus stacking. The top rail geared movement is used to set magnification (extension) and is of limited usefulness for focusing. For high magnification macro, the convention is to focus by moving the camera/lens (and optionally bellows) as a unit. Alternatively one may move the subject on a geared focus stage. Commercially available focus stacking systems use a focus rail.


Steve

[Racer X 69]

Bellows sound promising because I am currently trying focus stacking.

I have bellows and extension tubes, and have used them together before.

Yes, tubes can be used with bellows.

I just realized my response had nothing to do with focus stacking really.

Must be the pain meds clouding my comprehension.

Sorry.

Time for a nap now.

[Not a Number]

I just realized my response had nothing to do with focus stacking really.

Must be the pain meds clouding my comprehension.

Sorry.

Time for a nap now.

Naw, because the OP did as about bellows (in general). You may have been responding to the earlier part of the post.

My initial thought was 1x macro lenses, but I already got 1x magnification(and beyond) with this setup. Would any of you recommend a bellows?

[Racer X 69]

Naw, because the OP did as about bellows (in general). You may have been responding to the earlier part of the post.

Well I did quote his comment about focus stacking.

It's all good.

Like goodnite.

ZZZZZZ . . . . .

[Göran]

Update: With a full set of extension tubes and reversing the lens I achieve a full magnification of 2:1, seeing 12mm on a ruler when photographed. That's the right way of calculating the magnification, right?

[Not a Number]

Update: With a full set of extension tubes and reversing the lens I achieve a full magnification of 2:1, seeing 12mm on a ruler when photographed. That's the right way of calculating the magnification, right?

Yup. Just divide 25.1 by the number of mm you see in the ruler (lengthwise).

[jack002]

Alright, thanks to you all! I knew this community was awesome from observing the threads I will write an update here once I got the articles I need!
(I think I'll take a cheaper option, not the NEX Adapter linked above )

$255. Wow, that thing must have a hidden microprocessor.