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Macro for beginners - What lens should I buy !
Posted By: old4570, 09-05-2017, 07:51 PM

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Wow - probably opening a can of worms here !
Because everyone will have an opinion here and people might think their opinion is more valid than some one else's . So here is my $1 opinion . ( is that over priced ? )

If you are new to photography , or relatively inexperienced = Don't Buy A Macro Lens !
Chances are you purchased a Camera Kit with a 18-55 kit lens that is capable of close focus .
Honestly this is good enough for a prospective macro photographer to go out and see what results they can get .

If you are getting good results and your interest is growing then maybe some close focus filters or Tubes to get you even closer . Good thing about tubes is the value is increasing , the bad thing is a good set of auto tubes is getting harder to find and more expensive . ( Probably as new old stock is drying up ) so even used tubes are increasing in value . ( Get them while you can )
Good news is there are relatively cheap Auto focusing tubes available , the bad news is that the Pentax one I tested was NQR . Out of all my cameras the tube only worked with one camera . I also tested the cheap Canon Tubes and they worked just fine .. ( Haven't tried the Nikon tubes yet - Cheap nasty budget tubes )

So my advice would be to spend as little of your hard earned as possible till you actually know that you are going to like macro photography . And screwing on a close focus filter to a kit lens has given me some really good results , for Pentax - Canon and Nikon kit lenses . ( I would recommend +4 and +8 close focus filters )

To a beginner - If you have to buy a Lens ! , then I would say find a 50 in your price range . You can still pick up the Pentax M 50 F4 for less than $100 and this lens can produce some wonderful results as well as maintain its resale value should you decide to upgrade or what ever . ( Tubes might be cheaper and give you 1:1 macro )

I see developing skill in macro a little like developing driver skill .. You dont put learner drivers in a formula one car , you try and start them of gently in a user friendly car that is not challenging to drive . And I see developing Skill in Macro along the same lines , gently using equipment that rewards rather than punishes ..
Obviously everyone will have their own thoughts on this , just sharing mine .

Another consideration to keep in mind : What are you going to Macro ?
Insects - objects ( jewelry perhaps ) - Macro landscapes ( lots of people shoot mushrooms ) or maybe lizards and frogs ( also popular ) .. Are you going to venture into your back yard or perhaps the Bolivian Jungle ? And then there is obviously the question of money . Do you have an endless supply or do you have to work within a budget .

And not everyone can have the same perspective on things , especially equipment . One person might be happy wit ha 2nd hand $100 digital camera with a $50 kit lens and a $5 close focus filter and a $10 flash .. ( and take very good pictures ) , whilst some one else might look down on this equipment only too happy to ridicule it because they have a $15K camera with a $2.5K lens and a $1k flash solution . My perspective is - surely there is enough room on this planet for more than one way of doing things .

Here is my perspective on perspective and opinion :

2 people are looking at a mountain , both are 50 miles away from said mountain . One is sue south from the mountain and the other is due north ..
Bot hare looking at the same mountain , but have a completely different perspective and there for opinion regarding the mountain . Who's opinion is right , and who's is wrong ?
Just in case you dont know , neither is right and neither is wrong - its just an opinion born of perspective . Because there are so many ways of looking at the mountain , there simply can be no right or wrong .

Is this all confusing , well yes and no .. If you have no clear direction , then yes perhaps . Which is why I recommend doing ! ( Doing ! ) Do the deed , take the photo .. As cheaply and easily as possible - Do ! It is in the doing that we gain perspective and direction . So if you invest $5 only to find out you don't like Macro , then that's $5 well spent . If you invest $500 or $1000 in Macro only to find out you don't like it , then that's perhaps money poorly spent .

So that's my advice to Noobs - Don't buy a macro lens till you actually know that you are actually going to like macro ..
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09-05-2017, 08:19 PM   #2
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But you can buy the M 50 f4 Macro for the same or less than a good closeup lens costs... And less than some k mount extension tubes...
09-05-2017, 08:21 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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another thought on choice of lens

buy a macro lens that also works for other types of photography

my d fa 100 mm F 2.8 macro works as both a marco lens 1:1 and a short telephoto

as it is not the " latest " model - it has no WR - you may be able to pick up an " experienced " one at a decent price. I did from the market place here at the forum

do you need 1 : 1?

I also have a Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 LD Tele-Macro [1:2] (Model 772D) with a setting at 300 mm claiming 1 : 2 - " working distance " Macro 0.95 m (37.4 in.)

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/tamron-lenses-for-pentax-zooms-c76.html#ixzz4rtxQPE5i

Last edited by aslyfox; 09-06-2017 at 05:34 AM. Reason: added info on Tamron
09-05-2017, 09:41 PM   #4
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Hmmmmm

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
But you can buy the M 50 f4 Macro for the same or less than a good closeup lens costs... And less than some k mount extension tubes...
Perhaps ... Prices on certain items are going up up up ... Do you wait for a good deal ? or do you buy something that is good ? That is not for me to decide ..
Prices on tubes are very variable ( luck ) . Lens prices are rising , the M lenses far more slowly than A lenses .

I see M lenses going cheap on Ebay , but the cheap lenses are usually moldy oldies .. Finding a good clean lens ! is getting harder .. Easy if you are prepared to spend $
A good example is the A 50 F2.8 , a few years ago you picked up a clean one for around $100 USD , not so any more . Want a nice clean one , be prepared to shell out $200 USD or more depending on condition . So with the number of available lenses for sale dropping , and the rising prices . The time for waiting is over ! Really good deals are going to be a rarity . Exactly the same thing happened with tubes . A few years ago you could pick up a mint or new set for around $30 USD , not today .. You see K mount auto tubes for $30 , snap them up quick ..

Those good clean M 50 F4 lenses ? I am just not seeing so many any more .. And the lower priced ones are usually NQR ( mold / fungus mostly )
Pentax M 50 F4 | eBay

If you see one you like ( price ) be sure to read the description ..

---------- Post added 09-06-17 at 02:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
buy a macro lens that also works for other types of photography

my d fa 100 mm F 2.8 macro works as both a marco lens 1:1 and a short telephoto

as it is not the " latest " model - it has no WR - you may be able to pick up an " experienced " one at a decent price. I did from the market place here at the forum
Absolutely !

Everyone can use a 50mm Prime , and will most likely not languish until fungus takes over .
So if you plan on trying Macro and you plan on having a 50 prime , why not make it a macro ?
If you can double duty the lens

09-06-2017, 02:29 AM   #5
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as I understand it, the focal length of a macro lens is what determines how close you must bring the lens towards the " target ".

In other words, if you are interested in macro and insects, you must bring a 50 mm macro closer to the insect than you would bring a 100 mm macro

the closer you are to your target, the more likely you would be to " spook " it into being " flighty " or " defensive "
09-06-2017, 03:34 AM - 1 Like   #6
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I spent barely any of my Great British Pounds on obtaining some manual tubes and reversing rings. For me this was by far the cheapest way into Macro photography. Also whilst I would have been happy to extend or reverse my kit lens at the time I did have an old manual 50 and old manual 28 that worked even better.

A slightly more expensive (but still relatively cheap) option after that was a Raynox adapter. For the money I thought it was a great bit of kit.

I did eventually buy a dedicated Macro lens - the Tamron 90mm - which I believe wasn't that expensive (£275 -ish), can also be used as a portrait lens/short telephoto and I still use my tubes, rings and primes with for SUPER macro!
09-06-2017, 03:49 AM   #7
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yep

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
as I understand it, the focal length of a macro lens is what determines how close you must bring the lens towards the " target ".

In other words, if you are interested in macro and insects, you must bring a 50 mm macro closer to the insect than you would bring a 100 mm macro

the closer you are to your target, the more likely you would be to " spook " it into being " flighty " or " defensive "
Probably why people pick the 100 over the 50 , and its completely understandable .
I see the look insects have when trying to shove my Vivitar 55 38mm from their face .. Its like - Dude ! _ What the parking lot !
Id swear black and blue they gave me that offended look for intruding into their personal space , mantis have a way of looking at you like that .
And some times flies , they try to back away ( rather than fly away ) especially if they are in a prime catch some rays spot and there I am just pushing my lens at them . ( How rude )
Some times I am amazed that I can shove a lens that close . ( perhaps that should be - carefully position a lens so close )

09-06-2017, 03:56 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by old4570 Quote
Probably why people pick the 100 over the 50 , and its completely understandable .
I see the look insects have when trying to shove my Vivitar 55 38mm from their face .. Its like - Dude ! _ What the parking lot !
Id swear black and blue they gave me that offended look for intruding into their personal space , mantis have a way of looking at you like that .
And some times flies , they try to back away ( rather than fly away ) especially if they are in a prime catch some rays spot and there I am just pushing my lens at them . ( How rude )
Some times I am amazed that I can shove a lens that close . ( perhaps that should be - carefully position a lens so close )
it could be worse for those " targets " valuing their privacy

SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.8 Limited Macro Reviews - DA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
09-06-2017, 04:16 AM   #9
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Insects probably value their lives more .. That lens would probably be representative of a predator trying to eat them .. That flight for life thing .
09-06-2017, 05:08 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by veato Quote
A slightly more expensive (but still relatively cheap) option after that was a Raynox adapter. For the money I thought it was a great bit of kit.
They are excellent options and if you do end up with a dedicated macro you can put the Raynox on it for more magnification (like your tubes and reversing rings). It can be money well spent in the long run.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
as I understand it, the focal length of a macro lens is what determines how close you must bring the lens towards the " target ".

In other words, if you are interested in macro and insects, you must bring a 50 mm macro closer to the insect than you would bring a 100 mm macro

the closer you are to your target, the more likely you would be to " spook " it into being " flighty " or " defensive "
More distance to your target can also make getting lighting equipment or reflectors, etc. in position. "Working Distance" or how far your subject is from the front of the lens, is the measurement you're looking for here. At 1:1 magnification, the DFA100's working distance is ~13cm, the DFA50mm's is 5cm, and I've seen the Da35mm's described as "none".
09-06-2017, 05:18 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
. . . More distance to your target can also make getting lighting equipment or reflectors, etc. in position. "Working Distance" or how far your subject is from the front of the lens, is the measurement you're looking for here. At 1:1 magnification, the DFA100's working distance is ~13cm, the DFA50mm's is 5cm, and I've seen the Da35mm's described as "none".
for 1 : 1

13 cm = 5.1 in

5 cm = 1.9 in

0 cm = 0 in

I think

I also have a Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 LD Tele-Macro [1:2] (Model 772D) with a setting at 300 mm claiming 1 : 2 - " working distance " Macro 0.95 m (37.4 in.)

never have done any measurements on any to determine if those measurements are accurate

I try the bob in/out focus method on my macros for macro photography, darn DOF is so so so small

Last edited by aslyfox; 09-06-2017 at 05:29 AM.
09-06-2017, 05:21 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
for 1 : 1

13 cm = 5.1 in

5 cm = 1.9 in

0 cm = 0 in

I think
Just off the top of my head, I can verify the last one is correct
09-06-2017, 05:39 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Just off the top of my head, I can verify the last one is correct
always glad to have some one check my math

thanks
09-06-2017, 07:59 AM - 1 Like   #14
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I don't set up for macro, I just go for walks and let them happen.
I currently have an FA 50 macro, a Sigma 70 macro, a Tamron 90 macro, and a D FA 100 macro. IMHO, you can never have too many macro lenses.

The reason being, we use all these lenses for walk around lenses, meaning if I see a nice macro type image, I can stop and shoot a quick burst, without changing lenses.

For example, my dog walk yesterday.... (K-1 and D FA 100 macro 2.8.)

Tripper waiting for me to finish up with a macro shot...


Other images along the way.....






Many times when I could have taken my FA 50 1.7 I take the FA 50 macro 2.8 and I get much more variety in my images. SO I stopped at line one. If you're interested in macro, make it easy on yourself. Get a macro lens. They have great resolution and edge sharpness for walk around images, and you can do spot macros without lens changes or fiddling with other gear. If you really want to do something, cleaning up your workflow always helps, and simplifying what it take to get a macro image is going to help you get a lot more macro images while just doing other things.

Back to Jesse the dog... no lens change, no screwing off attachments, just turn, point and shoot. Easy peasy.


Life should be simple.

The only time I don't have a macro with me, is when I have something like the 18-135 or 16-85, which do pseudo macro (at least 1:3.5) that's good enough for 2 of my three images, but I would have missed the one that required true macro.

Last edited by normhead; 09-06-2017 at 08:11 AM.
09-06-2017, 12:09 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you're interested in macro, make it easy on yourself. Get a macro lens. They have great resolution and edge sharpness for walk around images, and you can do spot macros without lens changes or fiddling with other gear.
This is worth repeating! I know too many people who keep their macros tucked away for small subjects, but any of the modern ones (last 30 years or so) seem dandy at any distance.

I'd be interested to hear how you're finding the autofocus of your dfa100mm on the K1 at normal distances, specifically does it do much hunting? It's a common criticism for its use as an all-rounder that I found definitely true on my k100d (manual focus was the game at any distance), and mostly not an issue with my k5iis.
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