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11-04-2014, 01:02 AM   #91
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The whole point with cheerful colours is colour as such works with tiny objects where externals are more important than internals. Q is perfect for going crazy with colours as it is cheap enough to be replaced every now and then.

Even one line of an entry level DSLR may have colours.

But as one goes up, the colour should be more sophisticated, and less emphasis given on colour and more on substance. That is why K-S1 is a problematic product right now — however, if they decide to ditch the K50 tomorrow and replace it entirely with K-S1 line, lower its price and keep the colourful silliness, then it is fine.

But as is now, many see K-S1 as something in between K50 and K-3, and has more colours than K50, has less sealing, and less use as a typical DSRL. And costs more. So what's the deal? It targets a specific market, which is not very wide, as K50 also targets same market with colours galore and lower price. So K50 is an obstacle.

The positioning of the K-S1 is apparently random and without any sense now, and the problem is not in the camera, but in K50 which sits right below it and is dirt cheap. With K-S1, Ricoh is repeating same mistake, or same 'plan' as with K-01. Initial big price for a confusing product, that appeals to some. Then after the while price goes down, people go crazy after it. But how many times one can repeat same trick?

If Ricoh is waiting to deplete inventories K50 to be substituted with the K-S1 to lower its price because it will be default entry line then, they better hurry up. They should have announced K-S1 in May then, not leave it for Photokina.

Ideally, Pentax line should be
1. APS-C — K-S1, with colour craziness. Experimental styling.
2. APS-C — K-3, with limited colour editions, more sophisticated. More traditional styling.
3. FF — Whatever FF they make with a K-mount, again with limited colour editions. More traditional styling.

And call it a day.

But because they do not have an FF, the K50 and K-S1 together create confusion now, as two lines are artificially created in a clogged APS-C area within a system that still does not offer 35mm imaging, despite being originally designed for.

Create an FF, Ricoh, and stop confusing yourselves and ourselves with colour as an artificial marketing flavour aid. Then users will get a much clearer picture of your imaging offer.


Last edited by Uluru; 11-04-2014 at 01:23 AM.
11-06-2014, 03:30 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think that when 5000 people would decide today to go to the 645Z system then they will have trouble finding lenses to support that new system. It isn't a large growing market, since there aren't many products available.
How many lenses are necessary to take a portrait or shoot a landscape? For the former, something with a leaf shutter is necessary if they want to really sell the 645Z. Pentax should raise the price of the camera to $15,000 and give away three of four lenses as part of the package.It would still have an incredible price advantage.

Last edited by quant2325; 11-06-2014 at 03:35 AM.
11-06-2014, 04:17 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think that when 5000 people would decide today to go to the 645Z system then they will have trouble finding lenses to support that new system. It isn't a large growing market, since there aren't many products available.
I have always thought one of the economic considerations that makes the 645D line possible could be a pre-existing inventory of FA 645 lenses - maybe even a few A lenses - that Hoya bought, and then Ricoh bought when they bought Pentax. I note that new lenses appear to coincide with the exhaustion of inventory of an older, similar FL lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
How many lenses are necessary to take a portrait or shoot a landscape? For the former, something with a leaf shutter is necessary if they want to really sell the 645Z. Pentax should raise the price of the camera to $15,000 and give away three of four lenses as part of the package.It would still have an incredible price advantage.
Lenses are much more profitable than cameras - even the 645z. It would be smarter to give away the camera with an order of lenses.

Pentax might not have extra lenses to give away just laying around. Production runs in multiples of a few thousand cameras may be limited for reason not readily apparent.

Strangely, it might be less profitable to make more cameras.
11-06-2014, 07:40 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have always thought one of the economic considerations that makes the 645D line possible could be a pre-existing inventory of FA 645 lenses - maybe even a few A lenses - that Hoya bought, and then Ricoh bought when they bought Pentax. I note that new lenses appear to coincide with the exhaustion of inventory of an older, similar FL lens.
I thought the FA645 lenses were in more or less continuous production all the time? 645D owners who have recently bought new FA645 lenses might be able to check if they were made in Japan or in Vietnam.

11-15-2014, 09:09 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I thought the FA645 lenses were in more or less continuous production all the time? 645D owners who have recently bought new FA645 lenses might be able to check if they were made in Japan or in Vietnam.
How do we determine that a lens or camera is in continuous production? Aren't those figures kept secret (if possible) by the companies?
11-17-2014, 04:50 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
How do we determine that a lens or camera is in continuous production? Aren't those figures kept secret (if possible) by the companies?
Probably. I was curious whether anyone has any of the old 645 lens models with "made in Vietnam" on them, that would indicate a relatively recent production date. And indeed I found this in the medium format forum: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/258444-645-fa-120-lens-query.html
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