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12-15-2014, 10:53 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Considering that you can buy better cameras for lower than that (one example that comes to mind is Sony A6000), the price for the camera is still quite high.
Bottom line, a lot of people will not buy product X when product Y for same quality (or even better) is on the market for a better price.
Not trying to say you decision was wrong or not, please don't misunderstand me...

An ideal price for this camera, in my opinion, will be around the sweet spot of $350.
The problem with the Sony A6000 is the native lens lineup. There's a paucity of small, quality AF lenses for Sony.

So even though the A6000 is a better camera than the K-S1 (although the Pentax does have IBIS in its corner), as a system one could argue Pentax has the advantage.

If Pentax had an A6000 equivalent I'd be all over it.

12-15-2014, 11:22 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
The problem with the Sony A6000 is the native lens lineup. There's a paucity of small, quality AF lenses for Sony.

So even though the A6000 is a better camera than the K-S1 (although the Pentax does have IBIS in its corner), as a system one could argue Pentax has the advantage.

If Pentax had an A6000 equivalent I'd be all over it.
That was just an example of a camera that just popped in my head when thinking of something that in my opinion, is better.
Obviously people can argue about X camera and Y camera all day long (as proven in a lot of posts throughout these forums) and both parties will have good (and arguable) points.

While arguably (I say arguably because some people, including myself, don't use this feature), Pentax has the IBIS as a major thing going on, the K-Silly1 fails pretty much at everything else.
They even give up on the WR with this camera - one of the big things about Pentax. Personally, based on my needs and wishes, I don't see how this specific camera has an advantage over anything... other than the colors (which some are nice and refreshing) and LED stuff.

Last edited by mrNewt; 12-15-2014 at 11:43 AM.
12-15-2014, 11:49 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
That was just an example of a camera that just popped in my head when thinking of something, that in my opinion is better.
Obviously people can argue about X camera and Y camera all day long (as proven in a lot of posts throughout these forums) and both parties will have good (and arguable) points.

While arguably (I say arguably because some people, including myself, don't use this feature), Pentax has the IBIS as a major thing going on, the K-Silly1 fails pretty much at everything else.
They even give up on the WR with this camera - one of the big things about Pentax. Personally, based on my needs and wishes, I don't see how this specific camera has an advantage over anything... other than the colors (which some are nice and refreshing) and LED stuff.
My point is that its not good to consider the camera itself without also considering the lenses available. This is a mistake many newbies make.

Some people will say the A6000 "fails" - to use your word - because it doesn't have an OVF. or it lacks IBIS. Or the lens lineup doesn't take advantage of some of the A6000's characteristics. As for me, I don't use words like "fail" or "silly" when describing a camera, because I feel every camera is suitable for some user base, and if that user base does not include me, that's OK.
12-15-2014, 12:05 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
My point is that its not good to consider the camera itself without also considering the lenses available. This is a mistake many newbies make.

Some people will say the A6000 "fails" - to use your word - because it doesn't have an OVF. or it lacks IBIS. Or the lens lineup doesn't take advantage of some of the A6000's characteristics. As for me, I don't use words like "fail" or "silly" when describing a camera, because I feel every camera is suitable for some user base, and if that user base does not include me, that's OK.
You are nitpicking over my personal opinions... which well... are personal, based on my experience and needs. I don't expect anyone to like them or agree with them. I was just sharing them (like everyone else does).
And just to make it clear, my comments are based on the original price it was listed at and what this camera can offer. Nowhere have I said that the camera is not a good contender (as long the price is right).

Anyway, we can discuss about this topic until the end of time... so I will just leave it at that.

12-15-2014, 02:14 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
In my meanderings with the K-S1 this weekend, I ended up at the Smithsonian Institute in DC.
2) I'd say average height was about five feet / 150cm, maybe less. Even the taller ones tend to be slender, with small hands. In general, they had smaller hands than Caucasian women of similar height. Conclusion: Asian women tend to be small, and have small hands.
4) Not a lot of them had cameras (other than phones) - for those that did, it was compacts and superzooms. I think I saw two with DSLRs, and they both spoke to their friends in English with an American accent. In both cases, it was a smaller body and lens. (Side note: If I saw a DSLR with an f/2.8 zoom and a flash attached, it was a Caucasian male.)
Well, you are far more observant than I am. This weekend I wandered around the Monterey Aquarium, taking pictures of various types of fish. I was looking at the tanks, not people - except for after lunch when I couldn't move without stepping on someone or bumping into them. But even so, I did notice a few things:
1) The only person I saw with a 2.8 lens (looked like a Canon 70-200, I think) was a woman.
2) I saw very few dSLR cameras, but lots of compact/point and shoot cameras, along with more cell phones. From that I get the impression that casual shooters are getting away from the dSLR-quality-at-any-cost type of thing.
3) For the first time I shot with only small Limited lenses. The DA15, 21 and 40 worked very well. I've used the DA35 macro before, but didn't use it much this time. I did go "birding" (they have a few shore birds in an aviary) with the 100WR but otherwise didn't use it. For once I was really pleased with my pictures, they were better than anything else I've managed in any aquarium. I was also invisible in my blue jeans, sweater, running shoes and small white K-S1 with silver limited lenses, while the girl shooting with the big f2.8 lens stood out.
4) I might not be Asian, but I'm 5 foot and have small hands. I probably fit the size.

After spending about 4 hours wandering around with a camera around my neck and a camera bag with 6 lenses in it carried cross shouldered, I felt like I could have stayed for another 4 hours if it hadn't been wall to wall people. That's a first - usually I get really tired and sore carrying a K3, a couple of fast zooms and a prime or 2 for that long (in the same camera bag). So for me, the light-weight is huge - I'll trade the WR to have a camera I can use for a long period of time. And I'll happily trade a big zoom for the little Limited lenses.

I may not fit the demographics Pentax might be aiming the camera toward (I'm middle-aged and American), but it's turning out to be perfect for me. And I'm delighted that it's not special order in the US as I wouldn't have bought it.

If it gets down to around 350 or so, I might just have to buy a blue one, to go along with my unicorn.
12-15-2014, 02:20 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
You are nitpicking over my personal opinions... which well... are personal, based on my experience and needs. I don't expect anyone to like them or agree with them. I was just sharing them (like everyone else does).
No, you were expressing them in such a way as to make it clear that you thought that anyone who didn't agree must be an idiot. Saying that "they've even given up on WR", as if that were similar to selling a car without wheels.

Personally, I don't need WR, so if that saves a bit of weight and cost, that suits me. Just as I don't need an articulated rear screen - which saves even more weight and cost.

You have opinions - fine. How about expressing them in a more constructive way next time.
12-15-2014, 02:22 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Based on a comment from one of our members in Japan, a launch price that low would have hurt sales there, because it would suggest low quality. It's just a completely different mindset. Like I said, the K-S1 probably should not have been available in North America, except as a special order.

But then people would be complaining that it isn't stocked in stores and Pentax isn't seriously serving the western markets.
12-15-2014, 02:34 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
I dunno. I could see it taking off with the young gadget crazy crowd: the ones that will stand in line for hours to get the latest iPhone and are willing to pay top dollar for it.
That's the target audience - possible future members of this forum.

The K-50, K-3 and 645Z are aimed at current members.

12-15-2014, 02:49 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clothears Quote
No, you were expressing them in such a way as to make it clear that you thought that anyone who didn't agree must be an idiot. Saying that "they've even given up on WR", as if that were similar to selling a car without wheels.

Personally, I don't need WR, so if that saves a bit of weight and cost, that suits me. Just as I don't need an articulated rear screen - which saves even more weight and cost.

You have opinions - fine. How about expressing them in a more constructive way next time.
I think you interpret things the way you want... or you just argue for the sake of argument.
I stated a couple times, that people will disagree with what I think, and that is fine... not everyone has the same needs or wants. Not sure where you got that "clear" conclusion to be honest.

How about you tone down your attitude before attacking me like this, based on things I have never said or tried to imply (i.e. - "you were expressing them in such a way as to make it clear that you thought that anyone who didn't agree must be an idiot").

Last edited by mrNewt; 12-16-2014 at 10:39 AM.
12-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
Well, you are far more observant than I am.
Eh, I like to camera-spot anyhow. I think I actually saw a K10D or K20D in the wild! It was definitely a Pentax DSLR with a top LCD, but curvier than the K-7/5/3. Too big to be a K100D or K200D, and the mode dial was different.

QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
This weekend I wandered around the Monterey Aquarium, taking pictures of various types of fish. I was looking at the tanks, not people - except for after lunch when I couldn't move without stepping on someone or bumping into them. But even so, I did notice a few things:
1) The only person I saw with a 2.8 lens (looked like a Canon 70-200, I think) was a woman.
2) I saw very few dSLR cameras, but lots of compact/point and shoot cameras, along with more cell phones. From that I get the impression that casual shooters are getting away from the dSLR-quality-at-any-cost type of thing.
3) For the first time I shot with only small Limited lenses. The DA15, 21 and 40 worked very well. I've used the DA35 macro before, but didn't use it much this time. I did go "birding" (they have a few shore birds in an aviary) with the 100WR but otherwise didn't use it. For once I was really pleased with my pictures, they were better than anything else I've managed in any aquarium. I was also invisible in my blue jeans, sweater, running shoes and small white K-S1 with silver limited lenses, while the girl shooting with the big f2.8 lens stood out.
4) I might not be Asian, but I'm 5 foot and have small hands. I probably fit the size.

After spending about 4 hours wandering around with a camera around my neck and a camera bag with 6 lenses in it carried cross shouldered, I felt like I could have stayed for another 4 hours if it hadn't been wall to wall people. That's a first - usually I get really tired and sore carrying a K3, a couple of fast zooms and a prime or 2 for that long (in the same camera bag). So for me, the light-weight is huge - I'll trade the WR to have a camera I can use for a long period of time. And I'll happily trade a big zoom for the little Limited lenses.
That's great! For the museums, I stuck to the DA15, DA21, DA35, and my Sigma Art 30 (good for really low light, but a little heavy). For outdoor Christmas lights, I ended up mostly with my older Sigma EX 30, because it gives nice stars. I'm still going through the pictures. I didn't get anything spectacular, but I wanted warts and all, so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't. (Where was my new lightweight carbon fiber travel tripod when I was wandering around in the dark? In the car, of course!)

Any issues with reflections of the white body off the aquarium glass?
12-15-2014, 03:39 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
I think I actually saw a K10D or K20D in the wild! It was definitely a Pentax DSLR with a top LCD, but curvier than the K-7/5/3. Too big to be a K100D or K200D, and the mode dial was different.
Maybe you saw a field tester of the new full frame.

No thread is complete without a reference
12-15-2014, 03:51 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
Well, you are far more observant than I am. This weekend I wandered around the Monterey Aquarium, taking pictures of various types of fish. I was looking at the tanks, not people - except for after lunch when I couldn't move without stepping on someone or bumping into them. But even so, I did notice a few things:
1) The only person I saw with a 2.8 lens (looked like a Canon 70-200, I think) was a woman.
2) I saw very few dSLR cameras, but lots of compact/point and shoot cameras, along with more cell phones. From that I get the impression that casual shooters are getting away from the dSLR-quality-at-any-cost type of thing.
3) For the first time I shot with only small Limited lenses. The DA15, 21 and 40 worked very well. I've used the DA35 macro before, but didn't use it much this time. I did go "birding" (they have a few shore birds in an aviary) with the 100WR but otherwise didn't use it. For once I was really pleased with my pictures, they were better than anything else I've managed in any aquarium. I was also invisible in my blue jeans, sweater, running shoes and small white K-S1 with silver limited lenses, while the girl shooting with the big f2.8 lens stood out.
4) I might not be Asian, but I'm 5 foot and have small hands. I probably fit the size.

After spending about 4 hours wandering around with a camera around my neck and a camera bag with 6 lenses in it carried cross shouldered, I felt like I could have stayed for another 4 hours if it hadn't been wall to wall people. That's a first - usually I get really tired and sore carrying a K3, a couple of fast zooms and a prime or 2 for that long (in the same camera bag). So for me, the light-weight is huge - I'll trade the WR to have a camera I can use for a long period of time. And I'll happily trade a big zoom for the little Limited lenses.

I may not fit the demographics Pentax might be aiming the camera toward (I'm middle-aged and American), but it's turning out to be perfect for me. And I'm delighted that it's not special order in the US as I wouldn't have bought it.

If it gets down to around 350 or so, I might just have to buy a blue one, to go along with my unicorn.
I think people have got fixated on the smartphone generation thing. In the explanatory video, the bilingual one, the designers mention smart phones in passing, but they put more emphasis on class leading performance and the features of the camera.

It seems to me that Pentax added so many (admittedly useful) features to their DSLRs that they got heavier than the competition. The K-S1 brings back the appeal of the K-x.

I think that people exaggerate the differences in taste of Asian consumers. I can only speak for Japan, but I feel their needs are broadly similar to any other nation. Perhaps the main difference is that people in Japan tend to travel by public transport more, where a big camera kit is a real nuisance.
12-15-2014, 04:36 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Maybe you saw a field tester of the new full frame.

No thread is complete without a reference
Oh, don't even say that, or in a couple hours there will be three threads in N&R quoting a thread from DPR linking to a post on PhotoRumors linking to a different thread on DPR linking to a blog site in Kyrgyzstan linking to this thread.

(Yes, I skipped GrainElevator RH. Tomorrow there will be another two threads linking to a RH post referring to all the N&R threads.)



QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I think that people exaggerate the differences in taste of Asian consumers. I can only speak for Japan, but I feel their needs are broadly similar to any other nation. Perhaps the main difference is that people in Japan tend to travel by public transport more, where a big camera kit is a real nuisance.
True - any time you paint in broad strokes, you lose accuracy. Do you see lot of the color variants in Japan? In five years, I've seen one red K-x (foreign tourist), one navy K-x, and one K-01 Bumblebee, but every other Pentax I've seen was black.

Last edited by THoog; 12-15-2014 at 04:44 PM.
12-15-2014, 05:15 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
You are nitpicking over my personal opinions... which well... are personal, based on my experience and needs. I don't expect anyone to like them or agree with them. I was just sharing them (like everyone else does).
And just to make it clear, my comments are based on the original price it was listed at and what this camera can offer. Nowhere have I said that the camera is not a good contender (as long the price is right).

Anyway, we can discuss about this topic until the end of time... so I will just leave it at that.

You know what... I think I was too pointed in my reply to you. For that I apologize. I have kind of a soft spot in my heart for the underdog, and I get a little riled sometimes.

Sorry for my attitude.
12-15-2014, 05:38 PM - 1 Like   #75
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The more I use the K-S1, the more I *love* the ergonomics.

The grip is very positive with the pulps of the middle and ring fingers curled into the rubberised recess and the pinky under the body. Those with smaller hands could rest the pinky in the grip as well. The palm side of the thumb knuckle rests against the little rubberised plate on the back.

Using that grip, the index finger just falls on the shutter release, and it only takes a small but deliberate movement to reach the green button and the exposure compensation/Av button. The pulp of the thumb is already hovering over the e-dial and a small sideways shift puts the knuckle on the AF/AE-L button.

It is every bit as good (with a simpler layout) as the K-3, and addresses just about every drawback of the K-01, including the lack of a viewfinder of course. It keeps the nice tactile e-dial of the K-01, which I actually prefer to those on the more advanced bodies.

All good so far
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