Comparison between K-30/K-50 and K-S1

**THoog** · 12-24-2014, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by clackers

For you, my friend, the marketing folks recommend a product that already exists - the K-50.

The cashed-up hipsters the K-S1 is aimed at are not shooting in the rain. It gets their beards wet and ruins their velour jackets.

Or fashionable ladies who don't want to spoil the shoes that match their cotton/linen/demin/tweed camera body.

I think the Pentax marketing (do those two words even go together any more?) folks are as befuddled as anyone as to who the K-S1 is actually designed for.

Apparently, it was designed for me, but that's a pretty small market segment.

Full disclosure: I do have a beard, but I've never owned (or wanted) a velour jacket, and I'm too old and too pudgy to be a hipster. Before I had a WR body, I shot my K100D and K-x in rain and snow plenty of times - I was just careful.

**clackers** · 12-24-2014, 03:34 PM

If a 25 year-old business consultant wants to look like he's fifty, ride a singlespeed bike and get into DSLR photography, who am I to question? :-D

robtcorl · 12-24-2014, 04:59 PM

Well I was interested in the S1, but you too are pushing the envelope!

Merry Christmas!!

**mtngal** · 12-24-2014, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by THoog

Or fashionable ladies who don't want to spoil the shoes that match their cotton/linen/demin/tweed camera body.

Apparently, it was designed for me, but that's a pretty small market segment.

Full disclosure: I do have a beard, but I've never owned (or wanted) a velour jacket, and I'm too old and too pudgy to be a hipster.

It was designed for me, too. I may not be fashionable and my shoes aren't white like my camera (do they still make white sneakers? If they do maybe I should buy a pair!), but the camera suits me. I'm also too long in the tooth to be considered hip any more (not that I was ever hip, I used to own horses and was too broke paying vet bills, etc. to be hip. I would have rather buy a new halter than a fancy pair of shoes).

If I want to shoot in the snow chances are I won't be out long and I'll take the K3 and a DA* lens out.

Not a Number · 12-24-2014, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by THoog

Before I had a WR body, I shot my K100D and K-x in rain and snow plenty of times - I was just careful.

I've used my film SLR in rain and snow - taking care as you say. And there are somethings called plastic bags you can put over you camera and lenses. If you want to be fancier buy a rain cape from Ewa-Marine:

ewa-marine:

**THoog** · 01-05-2015, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by THoog

Everyone is looking to CP+ for the next body (or even the format-that-shall-not-be-named); I'm not holding my breath either way. The signs and omens (aka number of months since launch and price reductions) indicate we're about due for a K-50 replacement and almost due for a K-3 replacement. IIRC, someone from Pentax said plainly that the K-S1 was not a K-50 replacement. So far, Ricoh hasn't done big announcements at the shows. If they are ready in January, they may go ahead and launch - or they may not say a word at CP+ and launch in March. To borrow from @monochrome, either way, this place will be jumping in February.

Not to pat myself on the back - what am I saying? heck yeah, to pat myself on the back - it's not a product launch, but it's January, and here's a new body (prototype, at least) that looks like a K-50 replacement:

4 New Pentax Prototypes at CES 2015 - Pentax Announcements | PentaxForums.com

That "collapsible" 18-50 f/4-5.6 lens has my attention...

**Des** · 01-05-2015, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by THoog

That "collapsible" 18-50 f/4-5.6 lens has my attention...

Apart from its compactness, why? The optical quality of the Sony equivalent seems to be nothing special: Sony E 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS Lens Review

Steve.Ledger · 01-05-2015, 06:56 PM

Not even remotely the same lens equivalent, Des. Why would you compare the two and imply a negative conclusion at such an early stage?
Personally I prefer to remain positive and a little excited about new stuff from Pentax until such time as I have enough information that says otherwise.

**THoog** · 01-05-2015, 07:24 PM

i'm going to assume that it will not be worse than the 18-55 DA-L, which may not be great, but can get very good results on the K-S1 in the right hands, with the right eye (which I don't claim to have have, but I can dream!):

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/184-pentax-k-s1/275993-k-s1-review-list-o...ml#post3028862

The snub F35-70 is one of my favorite lenses on the K-01 and K-S1; if I could have similar IQ for 18-50mm in roughly the same size package, I'd be very happy.

**Des** · 01-06-2015, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Not even remotely the same lens equivalent

My point is just that a lens being collapsible doesn't mean it is good. Neither of us can know yet how it will compare with the Sony.

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Personally I prefer to remain positive and a little excited about new stuff from Pentax until such time as I have enough information that says otherwise.

Originally posted by THoog

The snub F35-70 is one of my favorite lenses on the K-01 and K-S1; if I could have similar IQ for 18-50mm in roughly the same size package, I'd be very happy.

Amen to both. The K-50 replacement looks very promising - as Todd has shown, the sensor from the K-S1 performs very well. I hope the new kit lens does justice to it, especially as many people (reviewers and consumers) seem to judge a camera by its performance with the kit lens.

Steve.Ledger · 01-06-2015, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Des

My point is just that a lens being collapsible doesn't mean it is good..

Doubt they'd make a bad lens on purpose. Lens tech is getting better all the time. The thin 40mm collapsible they made for the K-01 launch is a testament to this, by all accounts it's a great lens.

6BQ5 · 01-06-2015, 01:09 PM

The lens is no doubt intended as a starter lens for those who may be buying their first mid-tier kit. It's not made to be DA 18-135 or a DA* zoom. This lens is probably not intended for the seasoned Pentaxian. Wrong market. I'm going to guess that it will be at least incrementally better than the current DA 18-55 kit lens because it will take advantage of updated coatings and trickled down tech from the upper tier products. It's all good and exciting!

mee · 01-06-2015, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

The lens is no doubt intended as a starter lens for those who may be buying their first mid-tier kit. It's not made to be DA 18-135 or a DA* zoom. This lens is probably not intended for the seasoned Pentaxian. Wrong market. I'm going to guess that it will be at least incrementally better than the current DA 18-55 kit lens because it will take advantage of updated coatings and trickled down tech from the upper tier products. It's all good and exciting!

I think so too.. especially exciting that they are looking at the lower end of their selection and upgrading / renovating from what they had into new tech.

This means, to me, they are trying to build a healthy whole.. not just appease one small niche, but to go after a larger chunk a bit more seriously..

**THoog** · 01-28-2015, 08:40 AM - **1 Like**

I had suspected that the K-S1's 20MP sensor handles blue lights better than the 16MP, which tends to go a little crazy (especially with blue LEDs). Now I have some (not-very-scientific) evidence. This is based on a couple visits to the Carolinas Aviation Museum in Charlotte. They have these nice blue lights directed at the hangar walls, which the K-30 and K-5II turn into light blue splotches. You can repair some of it in post, but it's a pain.

K-30

K-5II

K-5II, from LightRoom - better, but still some issues

K-S1 - still a little too blue, but much less splotchy

K-S1, from LightRoom - much, MUCH closer to what the eye sees

**mtngal** · 01-30-2015, 01:29 PM

Interesting! Are these jpg? If so, what were your settings for custom image? I've never much liked the bright setting and usually change any of my cameras to natural right away. I don't use jpg all that often, though I usually shoot raw+. Your first picture from the K-S1 reminds me of a picture I took of a coffee maker I had that had a blue menu screen - the bright jpg version just showed an oversaturated, blue square for it. When you looked at the raw file you could read the letters and the blue was a natural color. In any case, it's interesting to see the differences between the cameras, they all interpret it slightly differently. Being a person who loves blue, I think it's a great background for a beautiful, shiny antique airplane.

01-28-2015, 08:40 AM - 1 Like	#29
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	20MP sensor versus 16MP sensor in blue lighting I had suspected that the K-S1's 20MP sensor handles blue lights better than the 16MP, which tends to go a little crazy (especially with blue LEDs). Now I have some (not-very-scientific) evidence. This is based on a couple visits to the Carolinas Aviation Museum in Charlotte. They have these nice blue lights directed at the hangar walls, which the K-30 and K-5II turn into light blue splotches. You can repair some of it in post, but it's a pain. K-30 K-5II K-5II, from LightRoom - better, but still some issues K-S1 - still a little too blue, but much less splotchy K-S1, from LightRoom - much, MUCH closer to what the eye sees

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12-24-2014, 03:18 PM	#16
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by clackers For you, my friend, the marketing folks recommend a product that already exists - the K-50. The cashed-up hipsters the K-S1 is aimed at are not shooting in the rain. It gets their beards wet and ruins their velour jackets. Or fashionable ladies who don't want to spoil the shoes that match their cotton/linen/demin/tweed camera body. I think the Pentax marketing (do those two words even go together any more?) folks are as befuddled as anyone as to who the K-S1 is actually designed for. Apparently, it was designed for me, but that's a pretty small market segment. Full disclosure: I do have a beard, but I've never owned (or wanted) a velour jacket, and I'm too old and too pudgy to be a hipster. Before I had a WR body, I shot my K100D and K-x in rain and snow plenty of times - I was just careful.

12-24-2014, 03:34 PM	#17
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	If a 25 year-old business consultant wants to look like he's fifty, ride a singlespeed bike and get into DSLR photography, who am I to question? :-D

12-24-2014, 04:59 PM	#18
robtcorl Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: St Louis, MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,606	Well I was interested in the S1, but you too are pushing the envelope! Merry Christmas!!

12-24-2014, 06:05 PM	#19
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	Originally posted by THoog Or fashionable ladies who don't want to spoil the shoes that match their cotton/linen/demin/tweed camera body. Apparently, it was designed for me, but that's a pretty small market segment. Full disclosure: I do have a beard, but I've never owned (or wanted) a velour jacket, and I'm too old and too pudgy to be a hipster. It was designed for me, too. I may not be fashionable and my shoes aren't white like my camera (do they still make white sneakers? If they do maybe I should buy a pair!), but the camera suits me. I'm also too long in the tooth to be considered hip any more (not that I was ever hip, I used to own horses and was too broke paying vet bills, etc. to be hip. I would have rather buy a new halter than a fancy pair of shoes). If I want to shoot in the snow chances are I won't be out long and I'll take the K3 and a DA* lens out.

12-24-2014, 07:32 PM	#20
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by THoog Before I had a WR body, I shot my K100D and K-x in rain and snow plenty of times - I was just careful. I've used my film SLR in rain and snow - taking care as you say. And there are somethings called plastic bags you can put over you camera and lenses. If you want to be fancier buy a rain cape from Ewa-Marine: ewa-marine:

01-05-2015, 04:46 PM	#21
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by THoog Everyone is looking to CP+ for the next body (or even the format-that-shall-not-be-named); I'm not holding my breath either way. The signs and omens (aka number of months since launch and price reductions) indicate we're about due for a K-50 replacement and almost due for a K-3 replacement. IIRC, someone from Pentax said plainly that the K-S1 was not a K-50 replacement. So far, Ricoh hasn't done big announcements at the shows. If they are ready in January, they may go ahead and launch - or they may not say a word at CP+ and launch in March. To borrow from @monochrome, either way, this place will be jumping in February. Not to pat myself on the back - what am I saying? heck yeah, to pat myself on the back - it's not a product launch, but it's January, and here's a new body (prototype, at least) that looks like a K-50 replacement: 4 New Pentax Prototypes at CES 2015 - Pentax Announcements \| PentaxForums.com That "collapsible" 18-50 f/4-5.6 lens has my attention...

01-05-2015, 05:13 PM	#22
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,423	Originally posted by THoog That "collapsible" 18-50 f/4-5.6 lens has my attention... Apart from its compactness, why? The optical quality of the Sony equivalent seems to be nothing special: Sony E 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS Lens Review

01-05-2015, 06:56 PM	#23
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Not even remotely the same lens equivalent, Des. Why would you compare the two and imply a negative conclusion at such an early stage? Personally I prefer to remain positive and a little excited about new stuff from Pentax until such time as I have enough information that says otherwise.

01-05-2015, 07:24 PM	#24
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	i'm going to assume that it will not be worse than the 18-55 DA-L, which may not be great, but can get very good results on the K-S1 in the right hands, with the right eye (which I don't claim to have have, but I can dream!): https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/184-pentax-k-s1/275993-k-s1-review-list-o...ml#post3028862 The snub F35-70 is one of my favorite lenses on the K-01 and K-S1; if I could have similar IQ for 18-50mm in roughly the same size package, I'd be very happy.

01-06-2015, 04:28 AM	#25
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,423	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Not even remotely the same lens equivalent My point is just that a lens being collapsible doesn't mean it is good. Neither of us can know yet how it will compare with the Sony. Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Personally I prefer to remain positive and a little excited about new stuff from Pentax until such time as I have enough information that says otherwise. Originally posted by THoog The snub F35-70 is one of my favorite lenses on the K-01 and K-S1; if I could have similar IQ for 18-50mm in roughly the same size package, I'd be very happy. Amen to both. The K-50 replacement looks very promising - as Todd has shown, the sensor from the K-S1 performs very well. I hope the new kit lens does justice to it, especially as many people (reviewers and consumers) seem to judge a camera by its performance with the kit lens.

01-06-2015, 04:44 AM	#26
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Des My point is just that a lens being collapsible doesn't mean it is good.. Doubt they'd make a bad lens on purpose. Lens tech is getting better all the time. The thin 40mm collapsible they made for the K-01 launch is a testament to this, by all accounts it's a great lens.

01-06-2015, 01:09 PM	#27
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	The lens is no doubt intended as a starter lens for those who may be buying their first mid-tier kit. It's not made to be DA 18-135 or a DA* zoom. This lens is probably not intended for the seasoned Pentaxian. Wrong market. I'm going to guess that it will be at least incrementally better than the current DA 18-55 kit lens because it will take advantage of updated coatings and trickled down tech from the upper tier products. It's all good and exciting!

01-06-2015, 05:53 PM	#28
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by 6BQ5 The lens is no doubt intended as a starter lens for those who may be buying their first mid-tier kit. It's not made to be DA 18-135 or a DA* zoom. This lens is probably not intended for the seasoned Pentaxian. Wrong market. I'm going to guess that it will be at least incrementally better than the current DA 18-55 kit lens because it will take advantage of updated coatings and trickled down tech from the upper tier products. It's all good and exciting! I think so too.. especially exciting that they are looking at the lower end of their selection and upgrading / renovating from what they had into new tech. This means, to me, they are trying to build a healthy whole.. not just appease one small niche, but to go after a larger chunk a bit more seriously..

01-30-2015, 01:29 PM	#30
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	Interesting! Are these jpg? If so, what were your settings for custom image? I've never much liked the bright setting and usually change any of my cameras to natural right away. I don't use jpg all that often, though I usually shoot raw+. Your first picture from the K-S1 reminds me of a picture I took of a coffee maker I had that had a blue menu screen - the bright jpg version just showed an oversaturated, blue square for it. When you looked at the raw file you could read the letters and the blue was a natural color. In any case, it's interesting to see the differences between the cameras, they all interpret it slightly differently. Being a person who loves blue, I think it's a great background for a beautiful, shiny antique airplane.