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02-14-2015, 10:22 PM - 1 Like   #16
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Steve.Ledger:

I might be the exception as I shoot weddings

I've maxed out at 3500 exposures during one wedding and if a single OEM battery can get me 500 exposures, then I'd need 5 (I already have two) which would cost me 545USD, and at least a couple of extra chargers on top of that, more or less doubling the expenses - and I'll have to worry more about batteries while shooting since they will deplete sooner, whereas AA's give me around 1000 exposures per set.

On the other hand, I can get a battery charger that can take 16 AA and 16 Eneloops, for 110USD. Double this up and I'm more than set and have still spent much less than if I take the OEM route... and I don't have a charger clutter going on. Also, I can be up and running quicker with AA's.

Sometimes I have weddings that span over 2 and even 3 days and there is little time to recharge the batteries - with AA's and in worst case, I can just buy extra non-rechargeable and not worry about having enough juice. With OEM's I'd need to have a charger for every single battery to be on the safe side.

Sure, the K-S2 isn't targeted for professionals, but neither are/were any of the others, including K-x, which was a even lesser camera.

02-15-2015, 02:00 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Can someone please give me some sound reasoning why having dual battery options (and one which requires a special holder as well) is even a good idea?
Sure!
Every year I take a backpacking mountain trip for about two weeks in unpredictable weather conditions, and I want to use my camera for not just two-three first days, and also I need to minimize the backpack weight as much as possible, so the only option for me is to use AA-adapter and several sets of lithium cells (not rechargeables).
Other batteries are either too heavy, or last too short, or simply lose the charge in cold weather. Even the highly praised Eneloops - I took them once in a small weekend trip, and I can say for sure they are much more reliable than other NiMh accumulators, but they are too far behind from lithium cells.
It's also really good that I can use the same cells in both my camera and my handheld GPS unit
02-15-2015, 03:57 AM   #18
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You can buy non original chargers and batteries. Saves money, space and weight.

How do Li-Ion batteries hold up? I thought they don't suffer nearly as much in cold weather? You can get an external Li-Ion battery brick that works with USB, and has 10k mAh, 20k, ... not too heavy either. Then a non original D-Li109 charger that takes USB. That way you can charge your camera on the go. It can also charge your phone (I use my phone as GPS tracker btw.).
02-15-2015, 07:50 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
How do Li-Ion batteries hold up? I thought they don't suffer nearly as much in cold weather?
D-Li109 batteries are in fact very good in cold weather. Once I have used them in -30 C for a couple of hours.
They surely degrade in low temperatures, but way slower than NiMh cells.

02-27-2015, 08:19 AM   #20
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Love It For My k-30d

I think it's a great feature, I don't have power stress, Regardless of where I shoot, there is somewhere close I can get some fresh AA's. The little bit in size increase is worth it not to be caught without power. There are no second chances in photography.
02-27-2015, 10:13 AM   #21
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I have the K-30 and use lithium AA's if I go on a week's vacation. In reality, though, I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the Li-109 and the charger as backup. In practical use, as it turns out, I can always shoot for a day and recharge the Li-109 overnight. Having one spare Li-109 for an especially long day of shooting, and the charger -- which I'm going to always with me take anyway -- covers every worry i might have about batteries, even if I did not use AA's. I can't see the lack of the K-30/50-style AA adapter being such a drawback to the K-S2, which added some functionality that obviously will have changed the internal component layout such that a hole big enough for 4 AA's had to get smaller. If you need to camp away from electricity for several days and need AA's, get a K-50/30,or a K-3, all of which have become absolutely amazing bargains.

I mean seriously, folks. Does Pentax not have every specific need covered with one body or another right now? I'm dizzy with range of excellent choices.
03-01-2015, 01:50 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
t is a really good feature, and one of the feature that attracted me to look at Pentax camera and eventually got me into Pentax (K200D).
The AA feature was one of the features that swayed me to get my first DSLR, the *ist DS.


QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
I agree, it is indeed a nice option. I would think the reason for not including the possibility for AA batteries in the new bodies simply is to keep the size down. Size seems to be a key factor for the K-2 line (or at least for the two released so far), and the adapter does take up a bit more space than the D-Li109 alone.
According to the official dimensions, the K-S1 is only 5mm thinner width wise as the *ist DS. I think if Ricoh wanted space for AAs in the cameras, they would have found a way to make space, or would have made it a few mm wider to accommodate.


QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Aside from the remote/rare possibility of being caught out with a flat battery and being close to a shop/service stn that actually has some decent AA's.. Can someone please give me some sound reasoning why having dual battery options (and one which requires a special holder as well) is even a good idea? I really don't see it. I mean rather than needing 1 extra Li-109 you need 4x AAs and an adapter!? Seems totally nutty to me And to those who say they only use eneloops, well good choice for sure, but this means you didn't just buy them at a service stn because you ran out of Li-109 power, it means you brought them with you when you really only needed spare Li-109s. So this kind'a of cancels out the argument.
I completely agree.
AAs are much larger and heavier than the lithium batteries in any of Pentax's DSLRs.
Also, you can get 3rd party LI battaries with better-than-Pentax chargers on Amazon for dirt cheap. I have them for all my cameras and they work just as well.
People give good reasons in this thread as to why their situation is better with the AA option, but lets face it, given the size caveats of AAs (battery size and camera size) and the fact that you can charge LI batteries with AC power, DC power, solar power, gas generators, or battery packs, and the fact that 99% of the worlds digital cameras use LI batteries, I'm with Pentax on this one... time to move on.
Another thing, if you think about it, what other of your electronics use standard batteries? Your TV remote? Certainly not your phone, your laptop, your tablet, your P&S camera, your video camera, your action camera, your drone (), your power tools, your yard maintenance tools, your car, nothing! They've all made the jump to LI batteries. Isn't it time your expensive, professional image making tool do the same?
03-01-2015, 06:48 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
AAs are much larger and heavier than the lithium batteries in any of Pentax's DSLRs
Lithium AA's are appreciably lighter than alkaline AA's, but I agree with your point that wishing for the 4-hole AA space on K-S1/2 is parsing the matter too finely. I don 't think any serious photographer leaves home thinking "I'll just buy some power on the road." He's either carrying spare AA's or a spare original battery and its charger. Lithium AA's in my K-30 indeed run literally for days, but I can readily recharge the original battery overnight. My K-30 battery is going to become my spare to my K-S2, so I'm good to go either way.

03-01-2015, 06:54 AM   #24
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I think a bit of a problem is the small size of the 109...

What Pentax should really do to make up for the problem is add USB charging to the charger and to the camera. Also make it possible to run the camera from USB as long as the battery is inside.
03-01-2015, 07:21 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I think a bit of a problem is the small size of the 109...
It's definitely not the Li90 of the K-7/5/3/01, which is indeed more robust.
03-01-2015, 07:51 AM - 2 Likes   #26
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It seems the question of 'cannot understand why, please explain to help me' is really 'My mind is already set, lets argue so I can convince you my point of view is correct.'

Perhaps we don't need to understand why we do things one way if that way works for us.. at least with camera batteries! haha everything doesn't need to be argued or debated on end.

What is next, 'I don't understand how people can have families and work a full time job, please explain why you do this instead of having 'fun' for yourself instead'

For the few really, truly wondering and wanting ideas. I'm using eneloops in ALL of my camera gear. It is one less battery type and charger needed. Both my camera and flash system use eneloop batteries (one caveat -- my K-5II sadly doesn't take them directly so I use the brick when wanting to go small, otherwise AA in the grip). So I have a ton of AA eneloops. My cheapo flash triggers also use AAA eneloops. So I can charge my camera, flashes, and flash triggers with the same charger.

Plus, much smaller on my mind, in 10 years this gear could possibly still be functional (if woefully outdated by modern standards), where am I going to find a proprietary Pentax battery? I suspect the longevity of the AA formfactor could be around then still and not so much Pentax's.

Yes, I understand they are probably heavier. But only a few ounces so more. You have to weigh (no pun intended) the pros with the cons and see what fits best for you. If you still can't understand, then please let it go and stop the thinly veiled argument of why anyone is wrong for using AA over the brick type batteries. Some things just don't go your way.
03-01-2015, 12:14 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Plus, much smaller on my mind, in 10 years this gear could possibly still be functional (if woefully outdated by modern standards), where am I going to find a proprietary Pentax battery? I suspect the longevity of the AA formfactor could be around then still and not so much Pentax's.


That's a very good point.
03-14-2015, 10:04 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Aside from the remote/rare possibility of being caught out with a flat battery and being close to a shop/service stn that actually has some decent AA's.. Can someone please give me some sound reasoning why having dual battery options (and one which requires a special holder as well) is even a good idea? I really don't see it. I mean rather than needing 1 extra Li-109 you need 4x AAs and an adapter!? Seems totally nutty to me

And to those who say they only use eneloops, well good choice for sure, but this means you didn't just buy them at a service stn because you ran out of Li-109 power, it means you brought them with you when you really only needed spare Li-109s. So this kind'a of cancels out the argument.
you said "decent AA's"
You don't need "decent" AAs. Crappy ones will give me 500 shots on a k-200d. I know. I buy crappy ones when on vacation all the time.

you said "holder" and "adapter"
The battery holder is unfortunate, I would rather just have AAs and loose the proprietary option like the K-200d had.

Your request, Steve.Ledger:
1-My career is in ecology, I am often in the field for weeks at a time with no way to recharge batteries. The ONLY viable option is to have a box of AAs on each trip. When a chemical spill or fish kill happens I do not have time to recharge my $70 proprietary batteries. I just go by a $3 pack of AAs.
2-13 of the last 14 (non-sailing) vacations were in settings where no electricity was available for weeks at a time. The one where electricity was available was a crappy vacation because it lacked nature only afforded by getting away from the grid and all the other nasty things in life. That is why i take photos. NATURE photos. It cracks me up when cannon and nikon have there adverts showing off safari photos and nature photos. If they cared about those of us taking adventure and nature photos they would use AA. Pentax appears to be going the same direction, if this is true I will sell my pentax glass and move to nikon.
3-Those people trying to visit and shoot in locations in the developing world do not have to worry about rolling blackouts if you have the AA option.
4-If i own numerous cameras in todays consumerican world of proprietary batteries have to juggle lots of chargers and lots of batteries. But 7 years ago I could normally find a point and shoot and a Pentax DSLR that ran on eneloops and then everything uses the same system. I have a 10 square foot bench at work just devoted to chargers. mostly for the point and shoots my co-workers purchased. WTF? they could all run an AAs if the engineers making those devices would think a little.
5- I sail. Not on a yuppie boat with generators or a wussy boat that runs the motor every day. A real SAIL boat. For weeks or months at a time you have no electricity. Someday i will retire and sail for years at a time. If there is electricity you want to save it for the radar, GPS, lights and radio. There is a shortage of electricity on a boat so making your camera runs on consumable AAs is the only option for months at a time.
6- When sailling you have many things that need batteries. VHF handheld radios, flash lights, hand held gps, tools, etc. Having all things in the boat run on rechargeable AAs is very convenient and saves power. I intentionally buy only things that run on AA because I am planning my midlife crisis which will be many years of circumnavigating and i only want to deal with AAs.
7- #6 and 7 are true if you live in a cabin in the woods, or a tent, or a third world country, or are trying to live off the grid or you want to own only 1 charger.
8- When shooting a wedding or a graduation or a event in the dark and you are pounding away with a flash faster than you can charge you can always run to the quickimart and get AAs.
9- When doing scope work during experiments i have to take many many photos. I can think of several experiments were for 24 hours a day, for 5 days straight the cammera was on and we were clicking pics. We would not have been able to use proprietary Li-ions. I just went to the hardware store and got a pack of AAs. all was fine. (a wall wart adapter would also work)
10- batteries fail. sometimes when you in the developed world. Sometimes not. But on ANY continent in ANY country you will find AA batteries.
11- You really have to try hard to come up with a product that NEEDS proprietary batteries. Most anything larger than a deck of cards can run on AAs. It is a corporate scheme to make you buy more accessories, to plan obsolescence and to make you think that li-ion battery gives you more photos. I wish the large corporations spoon feeding us stuff would just stick to AAs. I can buy good ones or bad ones at my discretion
12- I have OPTIONS with AA not afforded by proprietary batteries. When shooting a cammera that uses AAs it is up to my discretion what batteries i need. Cheapo alkalin disposables? High end disposables? rechargeable cheapos? High end eneloops that hold their own against any proprietary battery. When charging on my LaCross charger i can tell it to recondition the eneloop, or charge it quick because i am in a hurry, or charge it slow because i have time for quality. No proprietary chargers have these options.
13- The extra hand grips packed with AAs are great for studio or urban settings but are not feasible in an outdoor setting. i always take one handed photos when climbing and often have to when sailing, paddling, rafting, hiking, etc and things get busy. Also, holsters and chest mounts are bulky enough already.
14- Solar chargers are one more hunk of gear to have to carry with you. to tie to the top of your pack, to mess with, and to break while cramming everything in your bag for the plane flight. No thanks.
15- solar chargers do not work on a nice summer day in south east alaska because on even the nicest day in SE alaska is raining and cloudy. Nor do solar chargers work on a nice summer day in patagonia. Nor do they work in high latitudes during the winter. They are silly most the time.
16- those of you who love proprietary use Li-ion batteries must all live in a big city? If i needed to go buy a nikon or pantex or canon proprietary battery i would have to order it online. I have no local camera shops that carry batteries for at least a 2 hour drive. And I in a large city of 300k people. If we, the consumer, demanded our toys run on AAs life would be more convenient.
17- wouldn't it be great if i could share AAs with my friends shooting other camera models and brands?
18- wouldn't it be great if i could snag batteries from my electric tooth brush, head lamp, spectrophotometer and use it in the camera?
18- I have a k-1000 that is still working. Mu k-200d still impresses my nikon using friends BEFORE i tell them how old it is. as mee said above, i might not be able to get batteries when the gear lasts this long. I hope Pentax wears that as a badge of honor and does not go the route of planned obsolescence.
19- ADDED LATER: The environmentalist in me hates to admit this, but if i am traveling using only carry on, I do not want dead batteries and chargers and car adapters taking up space in my carry-on. If i have the room I will. But doing a trip using only high end AAs (like non-rechargable Energizer Ultimate Lithiums) and gas station quality AAs makes travel easy and less cluttered. Even if i am staying at a hotel or hostel.


If Pentax drops the AA option they will loose me, my family, and numerous friends of mine as customers. I know Pentax is as good as Nikon and Canon. And for the money they are WAY better. But you cant even buy underwater cases of pentax anymore. The used market for glass is limited because we are a minority. If Pentax gets rid of the AA I will have to join the majority. Reluctantly.

I see so much marketing from canikon in backpacker and outside magazine showing grizzly looking photographers on safari's and outdoor adventure photoshoots. Or interviews with Nat Geo employees shooting nikanon talking about the risks and the hard lifestyle. Come on? If they were doing ballsy things for any sizable duration they would not be able to recharge their proprietary batteries. Someone must be sleeping in a hotel with electricity. (or using a car)

Pentax should have advertised the waterproofing, the higher end (per cost) construction, and the AA flexibility back when they had the chance.

---------- Post added 03-14-15 at 11:12 AM ----------

Also, since we are on the topic, I will likely start hording AA cameras. Is it true that the k-30 or K-50 was the most advanced one still using AA? (i based this on the sites DSLR comparison feature). If there are others let me know.
What about point-n-shoots? What were the better later models that still used AAs (not limited to pentax)?
Many thanks for the help.

Last edited by cadmus; 03-14-2015 at 05:53 PM.
03-14-2015, 10:25 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
eneloops are quite expensive though, not to mention heavy. Might as well get Li-Ions.

You don't have to buy eneloop btw. LSD is the magic word, chances are they are identical to eneloop, just cheaper. And even if not they will be similar.
These are almost certainly Eneloops privately branded for Amazon. I've been using them with my K-50 without issue. Get 'em.
http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Rechargeable-Batteries-8-Pack-Pre-charged/dp/B00CWNMV4G/ref
03-14-2015, 10:26 AM   #30
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You have some points. However on Duracell I got around 150 shots from my istDS. My K-5 with proprietary battery (which is much smaller and lighter than even my eneloops which got around 1000 shots with the istDS) easily goes above 1000 shots, and does an hour of video on top. There is no way you could do that with 4 AA.

How about a car battery? They hold quite a punch... and I have a 12V charger for my proprietary battery. With adapters for different battery types.
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