Grouping K-S1 and K-S2 Forums

severalsnakes · 03-26-2015, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by THoog

Sara, have you gotten your K-S2 yet? (sorry, probably a dumb question). I'm curious how blue the "Stone Gray" is. Of course product photos never match reality, but I think I've seen that shade of "gray" called "Slate Blue" on other things. It almost looks like a non-metallic version of the K-x's "Navy". The K-S1's "Tweed Gray" is an honest-to-goodness "gray".

I'm still hoping the K-S1 at closeout will get a cult like the K-01. I can reuse my yellow robes!

Pfft. The thing is not black, but only barely. I wish it was the same flat gray as the Forest Green variant, but with the black grip. It's more of a gun metal, but matte. Could be flashier, IMO, but I've always loved the wild Pentax colors.

Edit: I'm going to bed now, but I'll post a picture tomorrow morning, with the stone gray K-S2 and the crystal white K-30 side-by-side. Give it some context. :-)

Steve.Ledger · 03-26-2015, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Marktax

From the outset, that marketing language seemed misguided to me. Neither of the S-models (three, if you add the Q7 refresh) has a touch screen, which, seems to me, would have been the very feature you might want to emulate under that marketing rubric. The K-S1 was sized down, and they put "Effects" on the rear mode dial as if they were trying to give more ready access to something like Instagram filters. But that's where any phone-like aspects ended as far as I could tell. (I've not handled a K-S1, so someone can correct me on whether "Effects" was anything other than faster access to the digital filters we're already familiar with in the menus.) K-S2 allowed it's articulating screen to rotate forward for selfies, but articulating screen was bound to happen on its own merits, not to be like a phone. Wi-Fi was coming on it's own merits as well, and they already had started working in that direction with both Q7 / K-50 Eye-Fi compatibility and the K-3 FLU card implementation. As far as I'm concerned, K-S2 is really the K-70 of the K-30/50/70 series. It has nothing to do with cell phone users or the K-S1 in terms its useability in-hand. It has some internal K-S1 DNA, but on the outside it's the mid-range K-50 replacement, without -- unfortunately -- wireless flash control. That's the one thing they left off, and it really puzzles me why.

And this opinion entitled to you are. However, fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path and that the K-S series is a separate line to the K series.
The K-S2 is in fact not a K-50 replacement.

**geomez** · 03-26-2015, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

And this opinion entitled to you are. However, fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path and that the K-S series is a separate line to the K series.
The K-S2 is in fact not a K-50 replacement.

I'm with Marktax on this one. A company's words doesn't always align with their actions. They may say that K-S means something different and that they are not replacements, but does anyone on here really think that the K-50 will get a refresh now that the K-S2 is out? Maybe after the K-S2 lifespan.
For the last couple years Pentax has had a three-tiered APSC offering. Beginner, intermediate, advanced. A year ago it was K-500, K-50, K-3. Now it's K-S1, K-S2, K-3. Is it logical to think that Pentax will squeeze in beginner and mid-range K models now that they have the K-S line? I think not. I truely believe the K-S and Q-S names exist for nothing more than marketing purposes. And IMO it's a smart marketing move.
To the non-Pentaxian browsing DPreview, hearing the name Pentax K-S1 they probably think "hey that sounds different, I'll check that out", and low and behold it's basically the same Pentax tech packed into a small, crazy looking camera, aka different and intriguing. Mission accomplished.
When the same non-Pentaxian hears the name Pentax K-S2 they'll probably think "hey that sounds different too, I wonder how crazy this one looks. I'll check it out", and to their surprise it's a fairly normal looking DSLR, but this time it has a bunch of new to Pentax tech, aka different and intriguing. Mission accomplished.
Personally I'm all for whatever naming schemes, crazy designs, and new tech gets the company turning heads and gaining new users, as long as it's successful.

**clackers** · 03-27-2015, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by geomez

but does anyone on here really think that the K-50 will get a refresh now that the K-S2 is out?

Yeah, I do.

A lot of people like the K-30/K-50 line of products and they deserve a successor with the 20Mp sensor or even better the K-3 24Mp one that Nikon puts in their entry level models today.

Last edited by clackers; 03-27-2015 at 01:29 AM.

**geomez** · 03-27-2015, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Yeah, I do.

A lot of people like the K-30/K-50 line of products and they deserve a successor with the 20Mp sensor or even better the K-3 24Mp one that Nikon puts in their entry level models today.

Let's see... A camera newer than the K-50 with a 20mp sensor, with a near identical button layout, and added goodies...
Let's hope Pentax can deliver on such a tall order, and soon!

**clackers** · 03-27-2015, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by geomez

Let's see... A camera newer than the K-50 with a 20mp sensor, with a near identical button layout, and added goodies...
Let's hope Pentax can deliver on such a tall order, and soon!

Amen.

severalsnakes · 03-27-2015, 05:29 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by severalsnakes

Edit: I'm going to bed now, but I'll post a picture tomorrow morning, with the stone gray K-S2 and the crystal white K-30 side-by-side. Give it some context. :-)

Rickster · 03-27-2015, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by severalsnakes

Thanks for that! Exactly what I wanted to see. (I have a white K30 too!)

Marktax · 03-27-2015, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path

Yes, I acknowledged that, but I think it was language to sell the product, not a product to fit the concept. K-S1 would have needed a touch screen, the hallmark of smartphone use, to be actually following that path. I actually see nothing at all "phonelike" about K-S1. It's like imagining the "fabrics," and "sweets" collections of colors are meaningful other than as marketing language. If it works for Pentax, I'm all for it. But if they re-do the K-50 with nothing new but the 20mp sensor, I think they will be really be duplicating the mid-range line and muddying the waters further. Based on the grip, dual control wheels, and mode dial placement, I'm still of the opinion that K-S2 is the K-50 with 20mp, an articulating screen, and wi-fi, not a K-S1 with an articulating screen.

Marktax · 03-27-2015, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by geomez

I truely believe the K-S and Q-S names exist for nothing more than marketing purposes

I agree totally, and i think the Q-S1 is really the proof of it. Q-S1 is merely a Q7 refresh in a new case, with maybe, I think, a minor tweak to the quick dial selections. If the S-language works to draw in new Pentax users, that's great. If "sweets" and "fabrics" colors sell the cameras, well, sweet. More new users need to be aware of what Pentax can do, and color schemes named in groups might be more effective marketing than the K-50's "custom order" scheme (that's another thing that I thought was unfairly maligned -- I thought it was cool to have such a capable camera disguised behind whatever wacky colors you wanted.).

Let's put it this way. Given the K-S2, I would be VERY interested to see what additional, differentiating feature a K-50II might have. (I'm also VERY anxious to see a Q-S2, which I think might indeed come about.)

JPT · 03-27-2015, 08:23 AM

I don’t remember Ricoh ever saying that the K-S1 was supposed to operate like a smartphone, just that they were targeting people who are used to smartphones. Now, you can interpret this as some exaggerated caricature of an airhead smartphone user or accept the fact that almost everyone is a smartphone user these days, and what they expect is a device that does what they want with minimal user intervention. The K-S1 does this. It’s a set-it-and-forget-it interface by DSLR standards, but that doesn’t mean it’s literally trying to operate like a smartphone.

When you look at the K-S2, it has an awful lot in common with the K-S1. In terms of components, the imaging sensor, the processor, the metering sensor and the battery are the same. Many other features are similar, like wi-fi capability, selfie features, decorative design and the fact that they have colour “collections” - borrowed from the fashion world (Will they be seasonal?). The K-S2 obviously comes with more features because it’s a higher end model, but its basic photography specs are basically the same. I think it’s entirely sensible for them to be grouped together. Please don’t think I’m trying to be a detractor of either camera - they are both great products.

The K-30 was an interesting camera because it had a split personality. On the one hand it had this OTT youth-oriented design, but it also had pretty advanced photographic features for 2012, inherited straight from the K-5. Personally, I think Ricoh is going to have two distinct models where the K-30/K-50 was. The K-S2 is the “youth” part, but I’m also expecting a “K-3 lite” at some point.

Marktax · 03-27-2015, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by JPT

a device that does what they want with minimal user intervention. The K-S1 does this

The Pentax user interface on all of their cameras has always been elegant and intuitive -- minimal user intervention all along, more so than other makers. Sliding the K-S1 mode dial down onto the back improved nothing in that regard. In fact, DPR and several users criticized the K-S1 rear mode dial as being difficult to turn with the thumb (the designed-in mode of operation), and the 4-way buttons were criticized as being too recessed within said mode dial placement. If anything, K-S1 was possibly harder to use in it's effort to appear to require less intervention. Nonetheless, the need to draw in new users is clear, by whatever means is possible, so i commend them for trying

I'm truly indifferent to what the K-S2 is called, or how much K-S1 or K-50 DNA it has. It even has K-01 DNA, since that's the only other body with HDR actually on the mode dial. If the new naming convention sells more cameras, that's great. But operationally, in your hands, K-S2 is a K-50 with the latest features. I like it thus far, except for the deletion of wireless flash control (that's some K-S1/K-01 DNA i could do without). I do commend Pentax for the forward looking design that the K-S1 displays, and for the bits of said design that made it to the K-S2. Neither camera is just another black tar ball, of which in my collection there are none:

**THoog** · 03-27-2015, 10:17 AM

All this talk about a "real" K-50 successor reminds me of the talk of a K-5III (a K-3, but with the 16MP sensor). We all have our own ideas of an ideal feature set, but Pentax just doesn't currently have the infrastructure for that many bodies in the lineup, and adding the FF at the top will put even more pressure on it. While I think there will be a plastic 24MP body eventually, I think it will be a while, and it probably will have a blend of features. Then there will be endless debates whether it is the "real" K-50 successor, the K-S2 successor, or a K-3 successor (because it will probably have some features the K-3 doesn't).

For that matter, was the K-30 a successor to the K-r (plastic DSLR, multi-colored, same battery, no grip, LiveView), the K200D (midrange feature set, weather sealed, AA battery support), the K20D (weather sealed, two wheels, name followed in number sequence), or the K-5 (same sensor and other inherited tech, with improved AF and LiveView, but NO top LCD)? The categories get blurred - not always in the ways we expect.

Clothears · 03-28-2015, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by severalsnakes

If the S2 didn't have the glitzy features, I'm sure I would have bought the S1 to replace my abused K-30. How can I say no to the articulated screen and wi-fi/NFC when it's right there waiting for me. :-)

Personally I'm glad that the K-S1 came first so I was able to avoid tilty screen, touch screen, WiFi, second wheel, and all the other weight-adding features that I don't want or need.

**clackers** · 03-28-2015, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Clothears

Personally I'm glad that the K-S1 came first so I was able to avoid tilty screen, touch screen, WiFi, second wheel, and all the other weight-adding features that I don't want or need.

It's another 120g. I just wanted the smallest possible, replacing my K-x.

I understand people like their gadgets, though - especially first time DSLR owners the S line was designed for.

03-27-2015, 06:04 AM	#39
Marktax Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Washington DC Photos: Albums Posts: 610	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path Yes, I acknowledged that, but I think it was language to sell the product, not a product to fit the concept. K-S1 would have needed a touch screen, the hallmark of smartphone use, to be actually following that path. I actually see nothing at all "phonelike" about K-S1. It's like imagining the "fabrics," and "sweets" collections of colors are meaningful other than as marketing language. If it works for Pentax, I'm all for it. But if they re-do the K-50 with nothing new but the 20mp sensor, I think they will be really be duplicating the mid-range line and muddying the waters further. Based on the grip, dual control wheels, and mode dial placement, I'm still of the opinion that K-S2 is the K-50 with 20mp, an articulating screen, and wi-fi, not a K-S1 with an articulating screen. Last edited by Marktax; 03-27-2015 at 07:39 AM.

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03-26-2015, 09:18 PM	#31
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	Originally posted by THoog Sara, have you gotten your K-S2 yet? (sorry, probably a dumb question). I'm curious how blue the "Stone Gray" is. Of course product photos never match reality, but I think I've seen that shade of "gray" called "Slate Blue" on other things. It almost looks like a non-metallic version of the K-x's "Navy". The K-S1's "Tweed Gray" is an honest-to-goodness "gray". I'm still hoping the K-S1 at closeout will get a cult like the K-01. I can reuse my yellow robes! Pfft. The thing is not black, but only barely. I wish it was the same flat gray as the Forest Green variant, but with the black grip. It's more of a gun metal, but matte. Could be flashier, IMO, but I've always loved the wild Pentax colors. Edit: I'm going to bed now, but I'll post a picture tomorrow morning, with the stone gray K-S2 and the crystal white K-30 side-by-side. Give it some context. :-)

03-26-2015, 11:05 PM	#32
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Marktax From the outset, that marketing language seemed misguided to me. Neither of the S-models (three, if you add the Q7 refresh) has a touch screen, which, seems to me, would have been the very feature you might want to emulate under that marketing rubric. The K-S1 was sized down, and they put "Effects" on the rear mode dial as if they were trying to give more ready access to something like Instagram filters. But that's where any phone-like aspects ended as far as I could tell. (I've not handled a K-S1, so someone can correct me on whether "Effects" was anything other than faster access to the digital filters we're already familiar with in the menus.) K-S2 allowed it's articulating screen to rotate forward for selfies, but articulating screen was bound to happen on its own merits, not to be like a phone. Wi-Fi was coming on it's own merits as well, and they already had started working in that direction with both Q7 / K-50 Eye-Fi compatibility and the K-3 FLU card implementation. As far as I'm concerned, K-S2 is really the K-70 of the K-30/50/70 series. It has nothing to do with cell phone users or the K-S1 in terms its useability in-hand. It has some internal K-S1 DNA, but on the outside it's the mid-range K-50 replacement, without -- unfortunately -- wireless flash control. That's the one thing they left off, and it really puzzles me why. And this opinion entitled to you are. However, fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path and that the K-S series is a separate line to the K series. The K-S2 is in fact not a K-50 replacement.

03-26-2015, 11:51 PM	#33
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger And this opinion entitled to you are. However, fact is Ricoh themselves made the comment about cellphone users step-up path and that the K-S series is a separate line to the K series. The K-S2 is in fact not a K-50 replacement. I'm with Marktax on this one. A company's words doesn't always align with their actions. They may say that K-S means something different and that they are not replacements, but does anyone on here really think that the K-50 will get a refresh now that the K-S2 is out? Maybe after the K-S2 lifespan. For the last couple years Pentax has had a three-tiered APSC offering. Beginner, intermediate, advanced. A year ago it was K-500, K-50, K-3. Now it's K-S1, K-S2, K-3. Is it logical to think that Pentax will squeeze in beginner and mid-range K models now that they have the K-S line? I think not. I truely believe the K-S and Q-S names exist for nothing more than marketing purposes. And IMO it's a smart marketing move. To the non-Pentaxian browsing DPreview, hearing the name Pentax K-S1 they probably think "hey that sounds different, I'll check that out", and low and behold it's basically the same Pentax tech packed into a small, crazy looking camera, aka different and intriguing. Mission accomplished. When the same non-Pentaxian hears the name Pentax K-S2 they'll probably think "hey that sounds different too, I wonder how crazy this one looks. I'll check it out", and to their surprise it's a fairly normal looking DSLR, but this time it has a bunch of new to Pentax tech, aka different and intriguing. Mission accomplished. Personally I'm all for whatever naming schemes, crazy designs, and new tech gets the company turning heads and gaining new users, as long as it's successful.

03-27-2015, 01:09 AM	#34
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by geomez but does anyone on here really think that the K-50 will get a refresh now that the K-S2 is out? Yeah, I do. A lot of people like the K-30/K-50 line of products and they deserve a successor with the 20Mp sensor or even better the K-3 24Mp one that Nikon puts in their entry level models today. Last edited by clackers; 03-27-2015 at 01:29 AM.

03-27-2015, 01:58 AM	#35
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by clackers Yeah, I do. A lot of people like the K-30/K-50 line of products and they deserve a successor with the 20Mp sensor or even better the K-3 24Mp one that Nikon puts in their entry level models today. Let's see... A camera newer than the K-50 with a 20mp sensor, with a near identical button layout, and added goodies... Let's hope Pentax can deliver on such a tall order, and soon!

03-27-2015, 03:52 AM	#36
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by geomez Let's see... A camera newer than the K-50 with a 20mp sensor, with a near identical button layout, and added goodies... Let's hope Pentax can deliver on such a tall order, and soon! Amen.

03-27-2015, 05:29 AM - 1 Like	#37
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	Originally posted by severalsnakes Edit: I'm going to bed now, but I'll post a picture tomorrow morning, with the stone gray K-S2 and the crystal white K-30 side-by-side. Give it some context. :-)

03-27-2015, 05:39 AM	#38
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580 Original Poster	Originally posted by severalsnakes Thanks for that! Exactly what I wanted to see. (I have a white K30 too!)

03-27-2015, 07:36 AM	#40
Marktax Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Washington DC Photos: Albums Posts: 610	Originally posted by geomez I truely believe the K-S and Q-S names exist for nothing more than marketing purposes I agree totally, and i think the Q-S1 is really the proof of it. Q-S1 is merely a Q7 refresh in a new case, with maybe, I think, a minor tweak to the quick dial selections. If the S-language works to draw in new Pentax users, that's great. If "sweets" and "fabrics" colors sell the cameras, well, sweet. More new users need to be aware of what Pentax can do, and color schemes named in groups might be more effective marketing than the K-50's "custom order" scheme (that's another thing that I thought was unfairly maligned -- I thought it was cool to have such a capable camera disguised behind whatever wacky colors you wanted.). Let's put it this way. Given the K-S2, I would be VERY interested to see what additional, differentiating feature a K-50II might have. (I'm also VERY anxious to see a Q-S2, which I think might indeed come about.)

03-27-2015, 08:23 AM	#41
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	I don’t remember Ricoh ever saying that the K-S1 was supposed to operate like a smartphone, just that they were targeting people who are used to smartphones. Now, you can interpret this as some exaggerated caricature of an airhead smartphone user or accept the fact that almost everyone is a smartphone user these days, and what they expect is a device that does what they want with minimal user intervention. The K-S1 does this. It’s a set-it-and-forget-it interface by DSLR standards, but that doesn’t mean it’s literally trying to operate like a smartphone. When you look at the K-S2, it has an awful lot in common with the K-S1. In terms of components, the imaging sensor, the processor, the metering sensor and the battery are the same. Many other features are similar, like wi-fi capability, selfie features, decorative design and the fact that they have colour “collections” - borrowed from the fashion world (Will they be seasonal?). The K-S2 obviously comes with more features because it’s a higher end model, but its basic photography specs are basically the same. I think it’s entirely sensible for them to be grouped together. Please don’t think I’m trying to be a detractor of either camera - they are both great products. The K-30 was an interesting camera because it had a split personality. On the one hand it had this OTT youth-oriented design, but it also had pretty advanced photographic features for 2012, inherited straight from the K-5. Personally, I think Ricoh is going to have two distinct models where the K-30/K-50 was. The K-S2 is the “youth” part, but I’m also expecting a “K-3 lite” at some point.

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03-27-2015, 10:17 AM	#43
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	All this talk about a "real" K-50 successor reminds me of the talk of a K-5III (a K-3, but with the 16MP sensor). We all have our own ideas of an ideal feature set, but Pentax just doesn't currently have the infrastructure for that many bodies in the lineup, and adding the FF at the top will put even more pressure on it. While I think there will be a plastic 24MP body eventually, I think it will be a while, and it probably will have a blend of features. Then there will be endless debates whether it is the "real" K-50 successor, the K-S2 successor, or a K-3 successor (because it will probably have some features the K-3 doesn't). For that matter, was the K-30 a successor to the K-r (plastic DSLR, multi-colored, same battery, no grip, LiveView), the K200D (midrange feature set, weather sealed, AA battery support), the K20D (weather sealed, two wheels, name followed in number sequence), or the K-5 (same sensor and other inherited tech, with improved AF and LiveView, but NO top LCD)? The categories get blurred - not always in the ways we expect.

03-28-2015, 11:44 AM	#44
Clothears Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canterbury Posts: 170	Originally posted by severalsnakes If the S2 didn't have the glitzy features, I'm sure I would have bought the S1 to replace my abused K-30. How can I say no to the articulated screen and wi-fi/NFC when it's right there waiting for me. :-) Personally I'm glad that the K-S1 came first so I was able to avoid tilty screen, touch screen, WiFi, second wheel, and all the other weight-adding features that I don't want or need.

03-28-2015, 02:08 PM	#45
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Clothears Personally I'm glad that the K-S1 came first so I was able to avoid tilty screen, touch screen, WiFi, second wheel, and all the other weight-adding features that I don't want or need. It's another 120g. I just wanted the smallest possible, replacing my K-x. I understand people like their gadgets, though - especially first time DSLR owners the S line was designed for.