[tonyzoc]

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tonyzoc

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4221622#forum-post-60339370







---------- Post added 03-09-19 at 04:42 PM ----------



Has anyone used these folks...

https://www.pentaxcamerarepair.com

$100 seems fair and it is a pretty easy repair from what I'm reading. Unfortunately I fly to China in 2 days so I'm going to have to wait and hope the camera is still usable on the trip. I'll take my Km as backup and I also have a a Canon Elph 350 (20mp) .

There's lots of info regarding the fix for this problem in the K-30/K-50 forum. Regarding the repair by this person, it's said that he files/sands the problematic solenoid horseshoe and that this isn't a permanent fix. That is, the problem can return and possibly cause additional problems. He does however give a one-year guarantee.



If you have a lens with an aperture ring, you can set the aperture on the ring and then use the green button to set the appropriate shutter speed to get proper exposure. You need to make some menu adjustment to make this work.

Yes, I have a number of lenses with aperture rings and I've used them on the K2S. I'm almost tempted to replace the solenoid myself. I've got the tools and it wouldn't be the first camera I've disassembled. Right now get the problem right when I turn it on..if I switch to live view and back...or turn it on and off a few times it goes away...so I'm functional to shoot...but I'm assuming the problem will get worse



---------- Post added 03-10-19 at 04:55 PM ----------

That's how it is and with that low shuttercount a waste to use the sanding/filing method.
All has been explained, and yet... some love to go the cheap way.

Spending $250 on a camera repair for a camera I paid $330 for is just not worth it to me. If that were my only option, I'd replace the solenoid myself or just but another camera...and yes I'm cheap. I don't have $1500-$3000 to spend on photo equipment...that's why I shoot Pentax. I didn't see anyone complaining that this $100 repair didn't last (though I may have missed it) and I didn't see any guarantee that what an authorized service center does won't result in the same issue down the road either.

---------- Post added 03-10-19 at 04:57 PM ----------

I had the aperture block problem with my K-S2 last summer, just after owning it for two years so just out of warranty . But when I contacted the Pentax repair partner here in Sweden they told me that Pentax had extended the warranty to three years for this specific issue, so I could just send it in and have it repaired for free! Warranties vary in different markets but this is a known issue, so always check what the terms are before doing anything else

Skickat från min VTR-L29 via Tapatalk

Good to know...I'll check USA Pentax before I do anything.
Thanks

[Merv-O]

I don't have $1500-$3000 to spend on photo equipment...that's why I shoot Pentax

You can shoot any brand cheaply if you're willing to use their less expensive, less durable models. This is not exclusive to Pentax. As an aside, A SIGMA lens built for Pentax K mount generally costs more than the same model for CanIkOny models. I have spent a lot of $$$ on my Pentax kit (see below), but I started 17 years ago with a Pentax 10 and a 18-55mm kit lens for $340.00 used on eBay. A new K-1ii kit (w/28-105mm FA lens) will cost 2,300 (US). On the other hand, Pentax offers a K-70 with a kit lens for less than 700(US). Canon and Nikon have $400 offerings as well. Construction, features, durability and quality cost $$$. The K-S2 is an entry-level camera that has some nice features, but it's not designed or priced to last 200,000 shutter counts like its more expensive siblings (I own one & use it as a back-up--it has about 1700 shutter clicks with no issues so far).

I've said this several times here at the PF--a good photographer can use almost anything to produce great pictures (look at Brady's huge box cameras during the Civil War). But don't get angry when a value priced unit fails after 3 years. It wasn't designed for the long haul in the first place.....Buy a used K-3 with 15k shutter count for 400 (US) and it should last you for several years--or go to the Ebay graveyard and find a plethora of makes and models being dumped by point and shooters who want the next best thing or were disenfranchised by the size of the DSLR.

But simply saying you don't have $$$ so you shoot Pentax is a silly rationalization...hope you can resolve your issue with RICOH.

[photogem]

Spending $250 on a camera repair for a camera I paid $330 for is just not worth it to me. If that were my only option, I'd replace the solenoid myself or just buy another camera...and yes I'm cheap. I don't have $1500-$3000 to spend on photo equipment...that's why I shoot Pentax. I didn't see anyone complaining that this $100 repair didn't last .....though I may have missed it...

You did. It was mentioned a few times.

DIY with a white solenoid is worth it particular for a camera with that low shuttercount.

...and I didn't see any guarantee that what an authorized service center does won't result in the same issue down the road either.

That is true indeed. Because they cannot change the powersupply.

As much as sanded solenoid plungers failed, did repairs fail by authorized service centers.
Usually after 1 year.

The difference is that with the same solenoid built in the only danger is failure if the solenoid again.
Sanding the solenoid can lead to further damage because the plunger will move with more play and when pulled outwards the already slight angle of it is enhanced.
Only the plunger of the white solenoid sits straigth.It is a final solution.

[tonyzoc]

You can shoot any brand cheaply if you're willing to use their less expensive, less durable models. This is not exclusive to Pentax. As an aside, A SIGMA lens built for Pentax K mount generally costs more than the same model for CanIkOny models. I have spent a lot of $$$ on my Pentax kit (see below), but I started 17 years ago with a Pentax 10 and a 18-55mm kit lens for $340.00 used on eBay. A new K-1ii kit (w/28-105mm FA lens) will cost 2,300 (US). On the other hand, Pentax offers a K-70 with a kit lens for less than 700(US). Canon and Nikon have $400 offerings as well. Construction, features, durability and quality cost $$$. The K-S2 is an entry-level camera that has some nice features, but it's not designed or priced to last 200,000 shutter counts like its more expensive siblings (I own one & use it as a back-up--it has about 1700 shutter clicks with no issues so far).

I've said this several times here at the PF--a good photographer can use almost anything to produce great pictures (look at Brady's huge box cameras during the Civil War). But don't get angry when a value priced unit fails after 3 years. It wasn't designed for the long haul in the first place.....Buy a used K-3 with 15k shutter count for 400 (US) and it should last you for several years--or go to the Ebay graveyard and find a plethora of makes and models being dumped by point and shooters who want the next best thing or were disenfranchised by the size of the DSLR.

But simply saying you don't have $$$ so you shoot Pentax is a silly rationalization...hope you can resolve your issue with RICOH.

Saying cheaper was probably not the right word...I shoot Pentax because I get more for my bang for my buck. I bought an MX in the 80s because a Nikon Fm was $75 more and an Olympus om-1n was $50 more... Looking at Canon 20-24mp cameras run $500-$700 on eBay...I paid $330 for K2S with 600 clicks. Pound for pound Pentax is usually always a better deal. Btw, I still have that MX and it still works fine. Also...I'm not complaining if a 5 yr camera has issues...I just don't think putting 60-70% of the purchase price back into it is worth it...I'd more likely just buy a newer one. Would you spend $1700 to fix a $2300 camera? I'd just sell it for parts and be on my way.



---------- Post added 03-11-19 at 04:21 AM ----------

You did. It was mentioned a few times.

DIY with a white solenoid is worth it particular for a camera with that low shuttercount.


That is true indeed. Because they cannot change the powersupply.

As much as sanded solenoid plungers failed, did repairs fail by authorized service centers.
Usually after 1 year.

The difference is that with the same solenoid built in the only danger is failure if the solenoid again.
Sanding the solenoid can lead to further damage because the plunger will move with more play and when pulled outwards the already slight angle of it is enhanced.
Only the plunger of the white solenoid sits straigth.It is a final solution.

Thanks. I may go that route. I'm not a stranger to camera or phone disassembly and I've got the tools needed.

---------- Post added 03-11-19 at 04:28 AM ----------

You did. It was mentioned a few times.

DIY with a white solenoid is worth it particular for a camera with that low shuttercount.


That is true indeed. Because they cannot change the powersupply.

As much as sanded solenoid plungers failed, did repairs fail by authorized service centers.
Usually after 1 year.

The difference is that with the same solenoid built in the only danger is failure if the solenoid again.
Sanding the solenoid can lead to further damage because the plunger will move with more play and when pulled outwards the already slight angle of it is enhanced.
Only the plunger of the white solenoid sits straigth.It is a final solution.

Some clarification...authorized service center repairs also fail after about 1 year? Why is that? Are the replacing so solenoid with the same type (green)? If so then no repair service had a good solution? Only DIY is the long term solution? The $212 repair is no better than the $100 repair then...

[Merv-O]

Would you spend $1700 to fix a

TonyZoc:
No of course not....I think your response clarified it. Earlier in this thread I stated that if/when the K-S2 dies, I will toss it. I paid about $400 for It new with the 18-50mm WR retractible lens which I learned later is worth $300 new by itself, so I practically got the K-S2 body for free. Knowing it is already 4 years old means I bought it understanding that it would not be a long-term solution.

However, the K-S2 has several forward thinking ideas: 3" tillable screen, wifi that works, water resistance in a plastic carbon exterior that makes it lightweight, smaller size, etc. RICOH could build on this. Also, I like the way the 20mp sensor articulates images. However, the 'value' comes at a price in less durability and life. Most of us in this Forum expect your Pentax to "take a licking'" and keep on ticking'. Not so sure with the K-S2.

That's why I recently bought a leftover New In Box K-5ii with the 18-55mm SMC DA WR kit lens for $420.00. The K-5ii is rated for at least 100,000 clicks and has the all magnesium body, top LCD, low light ISO efficiency, etc. The IQ on paper doesn't seem to make the K-5ii as advanced as the K-S2, but the results in the field speak otherwise. Personally, I thought the K-5ii was the value of the year for me. That 16mp APS-c 'sweet spot' is so good to my method of photography that I'm convinced there is magic dust in that 5/50 series sensor (my K-50 was solid as well).

Anyway, I'm glad you're not giving up on Pentax per se...If I were you and you enjoy the K-S2, a used KP with 5,ooo clicks might be a winner for you as well.

[photogem]

Saying cheaper was probably not the right word...I shoot Pentax because I get more for my bang for my buck.

I did understand it this way and totally agree. I think only AF-C can be critical for some, I never use it, so this would not bother me.

Thanks. I may go that route. I'm not a stranger to camera or phone disassembly and I've got the tools needed.

Then by all means... you have the advantage. It is straight forward, few hidden screws under the rubber, the K-S2 is the only Pentax body where you don't need to
take the screw out in the battery compartment, flash is a bit tricky to get to (for discharging it), it is on the other side, so battery out, let it stand for a week and don't
open the flash with the battery in.

Better not to go for the solenoid from the MZ50 or any other MZ, they are that tiny bit different, but any DSLR from K10D up to the K-r will do.

Don't take any solenoid from CD/DVD-Rom drives either, most have different impedance, some a different holding force, every solenoid was built to demand and specification. But all from the DLSRs I mentioned are guaranteed 100% identical and never failed.

Some clarification...authorized service center repairs also fail after about 1 year? Why is that? Are the replacing so solenoid with the same type (green)? If so then no repair service had a good solution? Only DIY is the long term solution? The $212 repair is no better than the $100 repair then...

I explained this HERE .

My experience with a lot of repaired (also sanded versions) K30/50/500/K-S1/K-S2's (I have repaired all of them) is exactly that:
DIY with the mentioned solenoid is the only 100% save long term solution.

Well, one shouldn't say 100% because any part can fail, even a white made in Japan solenoid. But they have never failed in any of the mentioned K-DSLR's nor was there ever reported a failure. When you have taken the green solenoid out of your K-S2 and then compare it just by pulling the plunger out of each several times...
I'd say everybody with some sensitivity will notice very clearly the difference.


So good luck! For you it should be peanuts.

[reh321]

Yes, I have a number of lenses with aperture rings and I've used them on the K2S. I'm almost tempted to replace the solenoid myself. I've got the tools and it wouldn't be the first camera I've disassembled. Right now get the problem right when I turn it on..if I switch to live view and back...or turn it on and off a few times it goes away...so I'm functional to shoot...but I'm assuming the problem will get worse

Yes, most likely it will get worse. My K-30 starting exhibiting those symptoms in May 2018; by October 2018 it was consistently happening unless I was using half-charged AA batteries, so I switched it to a bag with several aperture-ring only lenses, and when I got a KP I moved it to the original collection of lenses. I try to use the K-30 at least once a month, and it still works fine with the aperture-ring lenses.

[okieman46]

I received my K-S2 for a 30 year service award. It then sat in the box for about 18 months before I had time to mess with it. I retired at 33 years so thought I would take a photography class using the K-S2. The very first night I started getting Black images from the dreaded Aperture Block failure. Off it went to the repair shop, $212 for the repair and $28 for the shipping, so right around $240 all together. The camera comes back, the Aperture is working great and it makes really nice pictures.....Except the exposure info display in the eyepiece is black......no info. So I call the repair place again and off it goes back to them. I just got it back for the second time yesterday all seems fine now. I shot a few frames and the all look great. Hopefully it'll live a good long life now.

Jim

[totsmuyco]

I'm thinking of getting 1 for my son. However, this problem is blocking my decision. Is there a list of serial number of cameras affected? Do we have a census of the number of users affected? I can't understand why this solenoid problem wasn't addressed early on during the k-30 and k-50 era. This could've been avoided for models thereafter.

[clackers]

I'm thinking of getting 1 for my son. However, this problem is blocking my decision. Is there a list of serial number of cameras affected? Do we have a census of the number of users affected? I can't understand why this solenoid problem wasn't addressed early on during the k-30 and k-50 era. This could've been avoided for models thereafter.

This Forum did a poll of its K-30 and K-50 owners, and five hundred (including me) responded. As someone noted:

"As you mention the survey bias means that the failures rates reported here are necessarily higher than the actual rates, but are good to observe as the upper bound. Estimating the lower bound is easy as well. As most respondents will be those with an axe to grind (ie failure = true), you can approximate that non respondents are those that did not have camera failures. So for the K30 and K50, respectively, the estimated minimum failure rates are 165/2659*100 and 107/1799*100. Both work out to ~6%."

[photogem]

I'm thinking of getting 1 for my son. However, this problem is blocking my decision. Is there a list of serial number of cameras affected? Do we have a census of the number of users affected? I can't understand why this solenoid problem wasn't addressed early on during the k-30 and k-50 era. This could've been avoided for models thereafter.

At the beginning one didn't know it was the solenoid. When it became clearer (i.e. not yet really clear) it was adressed at the end of the K-50 in December 2015 as far as we have researched. The K-S1 was introduced Aug. 2014, the K-S2 Febr. 2015. So this is why we still find failures on early K-S1's and K-S2's.


The production of the (good never failing) pre-K30 Solenoid was in Japan but had been moved to China.

The China made solenoid was first "tried out" in the less critical flash-circuitry of the K100D, K200D and then K-m, K-x and K-r. Nothing went wrong, so it was finally installed into the aperture-mechanism of the K-30. It took a year or longer for the very first failures to happen, nobody took it that serious. First repairs where under warranty, so not yet public. This was later when the K-50 had replaced the K-30.


Then the problem became noticed, more regular but not yet as wide-spread as later on. Only since about a year or so the 2-nd hand offeres on platforms such as eBay and similar of aperture-failing K-30's and K-50's speak for themselves.

The culprit for sure is the solenoid (with very rare other exceptions... and even those exceptions often were a result of the failed China solenoid).


I will soon write more about what modifications were done (by Ricoh) to solve the problem of this solenoid up to now including the K-70.

The problem was that the Japanese manufacturer has moved production completly out of Japan, there are no more made in Japan solenoids available.

A common practice since decades.


The original Ashahi patent of using such a solenoid goes way back into analog days, the Pentax Program-A was one of the first (same design of the solenoid but 3Volts!) The MZ50, MZ6 and MZ7 used it: 6Volts but minor difference to the first DSLR bodies which have the best ones (for our use) starting with the ist*DS/DL, K100D, K200D, K10D and K20D up to K-m, K-x and K-r (but often China solenoid in the flash-circuit).


It was an amazing invention, it works very well. But now we have the problem that the Chinese have not yet delivered a solenoid of the same quality as the one made in Japan. The differences and why the China solenoid is inferior is known to many (and must be known to Ricoh!).


So to your other question:
I would only buy a K30/50/500 if either I am willing to repair it myself one day (because official repairs offered are based on modification of the green solenoid, i.e. filing it, which has resulted in failures again, or ... based on replacing the China solenoid with the same one again, not a great idea either, because even modified China solenoids are prone to failure, which I will explain later on)

There are less failures of the K-S1 and K-S2 or K-70. But a slight risk is there, I had 2 x bad K-S2 here and now, yesterday, the first K-S1 with solenoid failure.
7 reported K-70 failures on a German Pentax-forum. This is for sure way better because it was introduced 3 years ago, the failure rate is marginal compared to the K30/50's! With the K-S1 and K-S2 I would check manufacture dates and get a later model.

I still find the K30/50 with the 16MP Sony CMOS Sensor great bodies, a good photographer will be able to deliver almost as good photos with them as with the K70 but the K30/50 are more solid, rugged and I find it feels way better in my hands. Way better than the K-70.

[reh321]

The original Ashahi patent of using such a solenoid goes way back into analog days, the Pentax Program-A was one of the first (same design of the solenoid but 3Volts!) The MZ50, MZ6 and MZ7 used it: 6Volts but minor difference to the first DSLR bodies which have the best ones (for our use) starting with the ist*DS/DL, K100D, K200D, K10D and K20D up to K-m, K-x and K-r (but often China solenoid in the flash-circuit).

It was an amazing invention, it works very well. But now we have the problem that the Chinese have not yet delivered a solenoid of the same quality as the one made in Japan. The differences and why the China solenoid is inferior is known to many (and must be known to Ricoh!).

An additional comment:

In 1979 I purchased my first SLR - a Pentax ME/SE. Unfortunately I didn't properly protect that camera from the spray when we were at Niagara Falls, and in 1983 I suddenly needed another camera; I had been very satisfied with the ME/SE, but now the Pentax camera for sale at my local store was a "Super Program" {apparently called the "Super A" in some markets} , so I purchased that camera (*). According to research I've done recently, this was the very first camera to provide the KA-mount, and the mechanism which allowed the body to control the lens's aperture looks essentially like the mechanism used by my K-30 .... the last time I used it {last Fall} the aperture control mechanism still worked! 35-1/2 years old and the aperture control mechanism still works correctly - I would say that is a good design!

I am quite certain that the Pentax engineers were more confused than we were when reports first started coming in of this mechanism, which they had depended on for over 1/3-rd century, failing. I am disappointed that my K-30 has not worked perfectly for even 1/21-st century (1/7-th as long as the Super Program}, but that is not Pentax's fault.


(*) leftmost camera in my signature

[reh321]

Saying cheaper was probably not the right word...I shoot Pentax because I get more for my bang for my buck. I bought an MX in the 80s because a Nikon Fm was $75 more and an Olympus om-1n was $50 more... Looking at Canon 20-24mp cameras run $500-$700 on eBay...I paid $330 for K2S with 600 clicks. Pound for pound Pentax is usually always a better deal. Btw, I still have that MX and it still works fine. Also...I'm not complaining if a 5 yr camera has issues...I just don't think putting 60-70% of the purchase price back into it is worth it...I'd more likely just buy a newer one. Would you spend $1700 to fix a $2300 camera? I'd just sell it for parts and be on my way .

In my case, I purchased an FA 28-105. It has an aperture ring, so it provides AF and meters in green button mode, which is similar to the manual-focus ME/SE {with the equivalent of Av and Manual modes} which started me down the Pentax path forty years ago. Even though I have a KP now, I still use the K-30 regularly, the most recent time being on Monday.

[reh321]

I received my K-S2 for a 30 year service award. It then sat in the box for about 18 months before I had time to mess with it. I retired at 33 years so thought I would take a photography class using the K-S2. The very first night I started getting Black images from the dreaded Aperture Block failure. Off it went to the repair shop, $212 for the repair and $28 for the shipping, so right around $240 all together. The camera comes back, the Aperture is working great and it makes really nice pictures.....Except the exposure info display in the eyepiece is black......no info. So I call the repair place again and off it goes back to them. I just got it back for the second time yesterday all seems fine now. I shot a few frames and the all look great. Hopefully it'll live a good long life now.

Jim

Experience seems to show that the camera is less likely to have the Dark Image Syndrome problem if you use it regularly. Sitting on the shelf for a year is deadly for it.

[okieman46]

Had to have my K-S2 Aperture Control block replaced as well. The camera was new, but had set in the box for a year or so and not been used when the problem occurred. I sent it to the Pentax repair depot, it cost $250 to have it fixed. It has worked great dver since