[Bertrand3000]

Hi,

It's something I noticed long ago with my K-S2. When you take a photo using the viewfinder, you hear two distinct sounds when pressing the shutter. The first is probably mirror up / shutter open, and the second is mirror down / shutter close. This is what is expected.


But in Live View, when mirror should not be involved at all (just going up when entering Live View, and going down when disabling LV), it seems that the following happens when pressing the shutter button :

1) Mirror goes down (why?)
2) Mirror goes up again and shutter open
3) After exposition, mirror goes down again, shutter close
4) Then after a short while, mirror goes up again to restore Live View

Such a process slow down taking photo in Live View mode, and could induce wear in the mechanical systems. But why the mirror is involved at all ? It should stay up while Live View is active! Unless it is mechanically coupled with the shutter

Am I right?

Are more recent bodies affected as well by this weird behavior?

[Adam]

Are more recent bodies affected as well by this weird behavior?

No— AFAIK high-end bodies such as the K-3 and newer have separate actuators capable of opening the shutter without moving the mirror. Other bodies don't either (a) to keep costs lower or (b) because live view wasn't as popular early on.

The difference is illustrated in this video:

You Tube

You Tube

[monochrome]

This is my understanding: What you hear is the shutter cycling twice. The shutter is open when you are viewing the image in the LCD screen, so the shutter action is:

The shutter is OPEN in ready state
>> Release shutter>>

1. CLOSE to prepare the curtains for the photo
2. OPEN > 3. CLOSE to mechanically capture the image (1st and 2nd curtains pass in front of the sensor)
4. OPEN to return the shutter to ready state.

[stevebrot]

This is my understanding: What you hear is the shutter cycling twice. The shutter is open when you are viewing the image in the LCD screen, so the shutter action is:

The shutter is OPEN in ready state
>> Release shutter>>

1. CLOSE to prepare the curtains for the photo
2. OPEN > 3. CLOSE to mechanically capture the image (1st and 2nd curtains pass in front of the sensor)
4. OPEN to return the shutter to ready state.

My memory

Insert 1a. Mirror down as shutter cocks as ready for shutter sequence
Insert 1b. Mirror up as start of shutter sequence

Insert 3a. Mirror down as shutter cocks as end of shutter sequence
Insert 3b. Mirror up as start of shutter open for live view

As noted by Adam above, my understanding has been that mirror up and aperture actuation are both part of the shutter interlock timing on models other than the K-3/K-3II, KP, and K-1/K-ii (Edit: K-01 too). The shutter will not open unless it is closed and cocked with the mirror up. Mirror down does not happen except during shutter cock. Edit: For clarity, the mirror movement is not mechanically driven by the shutter nor the other way around. A good example would be MUP drive mode where the mirror is raised and may drop independent of any shutter action; the interlock is a logical gating. Two-second delay happens after 1b. and before 2.

At least, that is how I remember the action when stepping through using delay from live view in B mode (type 2) on a friend's K-50.


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 10-19-2019 at 10:11 PM.

[monochrome]

My memory

Insert 1a. Mirror down as shutter cocks as ready for shutter sequence
Insert 1b. Mirror up as start of shutter sequence

Insert 3a. Mirror down as shutter cocks as end of shutter sequence
Insert 3b. Mirror up as start of shutter open for live view

As noted by Adam above, my understanding has been that mirror up and aperture actuation are both part of the shutter interlock timing on models other than the K-3/K-3II, KP, and K-1/K-ii. The shutter will not open unless it is closed and cocked with the mirror up. Mirror down does not happen except during shutter cock. Two-second delay happens after 1b. and before 2.

At least, that is how I remember the action when stepping through using delay from live view in B mode (type 2) on a friend's K-50.


Steve

I’m away rom home but later I’ll observe the mirror through the mount on K-01, K5lls, K-1 and KP.

[stevebrot]

I’m away rom home but later I’ll observe the mirror through the mount on K-01, K5lls, K-1 and KP.

The easiest way to confirm the mirror movement is to set drive mode to continuous "L" in live view with a slow shutter speed and watch the action through the optical viewfinder.


Steve

[monochrome]

The easiest way to confirm the mirror movement is to set drive mode to continuous "L" in live view with a slow shutter speed and watch the action through the optical viewfinder.


Steve

Except K-01

[reduno]

As noted by Adam above, my understanding has been that mirror up and aperture actuation are both part of the shutter interlock timing on models other than the K-3/K-3II, KP, and K-1/K-ii (Edit: K-01 too). The shutter will not open unless it is closed and cocked with the mirror up. Mirror down does not happen except during shutter cock.

I agree the mirror movement and aperture actuation are coupled on models like the K-S2. However, I believe the shutter itself is completely independent. I'm sure the electronics ensure it only opens when the mirror is up but I don't believe there is a mechanical linkage whereby the mirror cocks the shutter.

[stevebrot]

I'm sure the electronics ensure it only opens when the mirror is up but I don't believe there is a mechanical linkage whereby the mirror cocks the shutter.

I am sure you are correct.


Steve

[UncleVanya]

No— AFAIK high-end bodies such as the K-3 and newer have separate actuators capable of opening the shutter without moving the mirror. Other bodies don't either (a) to keep costs lower or (b) because live view wasn't as popular early on.

The difference is illustrated in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQle-yDtX-U

Adam what about the K70? Do you know if it works like the older k-50 or more like the K3?

[Adam]

Adam what about the K70? Do you know if it works like the older k-50 or more like the K3?

Same as the K-S2/K-50.

[Bertrand3000]

And what about the KP?

[reduno]

And what about the KP?

The Kp uses the same aperture stepper motor system as the K-3 and other flag-ship models.

[Bertrand3000]

Thank you for the information. So the electronic shutter option is available only to K-3, KP and K1?

[reduno]

So the electronic shutter option is available only to K-3, KP and K1?

The electronic shutter option can only be enabled by the user on the K-1 and Kp. The K-3 II does use an electronic shutter for the multiple shots during high resolution pixel shift mode but the electronic shutter cannot be enabled separately by the user. Since the K-3 does not have the high resolution pixel shift mode, I don't believe it uses an electronic shutter at all.