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04-19-2021, 12:57 AM   #1
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What does the shutter sound like when it is wearing out?

I have a much-loved K-S2 that has around ~60k shutter actuations. I've noticed recently that the noise it makes at the typical speeds I use has gone from being a reassuring "clunk" to having a note of "boing" at the end *sounding a little bit springier. It's really subtle, but definitely different. Could this be the sign that I've nearly worn it out?

04-19-2021, 04:35 AM   #2
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Have you tried using a very long exposure (or bulb mode), to see if the 'boing' occurs when the shutter cocks and the first curtain opens, or at the end when second curtain closes. In the K-S2, the mirror (shutter is cocked by the same motor) and aperture solenoid will all be operating at the same time, so it may be difficult to isolate where the sound is coming from. Using live-view further complicates things, as the mirror makes two cycles when the photo is taken. Unfortunately, I have not taken the shutter count high enough on one of these cameras to experience any change in sound myself.
04-19-2021, 11:50 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Landak Quote
I have a much-loved K-S2 that has around ~60k shutter actuations. I've noticed recently that the noise it makes at the typical speeds I use has gone from being a reassuring "clunk" to having a note of "boing" at the end –*sounding a little bit springier. It's really subtle, but definitely different. Could this be the sign that I've nearly worn it out?
The solenoid in the K-S2 is made out of PET which wears quicker than the PTFE of the older Japan-Solenoid which was used in many Pentax bodies up to the K-r (K20D, K10D etc. as well)
I often noticed a "better" sound when I had exchanged this green (PET) China-made solenoid against the white (PTFE) Japan-Solenoid.
Also series photos are faster!


The PET-body of the China-Solenoid acts as a bearing for the plunger which moves very fast in and out when actuating.
It is anyway slightly larger, i.e. more bearing-play then the PTFE body. Each time the plunger actuates heats is dissipated and thus the PET body
wears quicker due to a lower meltingpoint.


You can see the difference here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13040-diff...ure123013.html
and here when the plunger is out:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13040-diff...ure123014.html

And yet, high shuttercount was always safer for Pentaxbodies with the Chinasolenoid than low shuttercount, not because of wear but because low shuttercount usually indicates longer periods of non-use which is the more common cause for ABF.

The danger with a worn solenoid is that the plunger moves more sloppy (more bearing play):
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13036-gree...ure123005.html
while it should move like this:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13035-whit...ure123001.html

Thus is can block differently and then goes out of alignement. This can be the result:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13069-gear...ture128375.jpg

So the solution could well be to swap the solenoid.

@reduno:
The mirror up is done by this motor, which sits on the very right side on the diaphragm-block:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13179-diap...ure124607.html
The shutter actuates by two strong solenoids which sit invisible underneath the plunger.

Last edited by photogem; 04-19-2021 at 11:56 PM.
04-20-2021, 06:20 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
The mirror up is done by this motor, which sits on the very right side on the diaphragm-block:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/85274-photogem/albums/13179-diap...ure124607.html
The shutter actuates by two strong solenoids which sit invisible underneath the plunger.
Unfortunately the photo link above currently does not appear to be working for me. On the K-S2, I believe there are two motors, one that drives the mirror/aperture mechanism and one for auto focus. I must admit that I originally thought the shutter was completely independent but was corrected by 'photoptimist' in his post:
Taking a photo Live View : too many mechanical movements? - Page 2 - PentaxForums.com
If you look at the original K-3 promotional material, it also makes a point of having a third motor to optimize the action of the shutter, mirror and diaphragm independently:
K-3 | RICOH IMAGING

04-20-2021, 09:42 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by reduno Quote
Unfortunately the photo link above currently does not appear to be working for me.

In general you can say:
2 motors for *ist, K100/200D, K10/20D, Km/x/r, K30/50/500/S1/S2/70
3 motors for K7/01/5/3/KP/K1
K3III I don't know (yet)
04-20-2021, 11:12 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
In general you can say:
2 motors for *ist, K100/200D, K10/20D, Km/x/r, K30/50/500/S1/S2/70
3 motors for K7/01/5/3/KP/K1
K3III I don't know (yet)
I agree with your 2-motor list and most of the 3-motor list. However, the K-3 and K-3 II actually have 4-motors. The 3-motor mechanism referenced in the Ricoh publicity only includes the mirror motor, the shutter motor and the aperture (stepper) motor. The autofocus motor is on the other side of the mirror box and not visible in the picture on the Ricoh website (see below). I suspect the K-1 and K-1 II also have 4-motors total but I'm unsure about the Kp.
Attached Images
 
04-20-2021, 07:30 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by reduno Quote
I agree with your 2-motor list and most of the 3-motor list. However, the K-3 and K-3 II actually have 4-motors. The 3-motor mechanism referenced in the Ricoh publicity only includes the mirror motor, the shutter motor and the aperture (stepper) motor. The autofocus motor is on the other side of the mirror box and not visible in the picture on the Ricoh website (see below). I suspect the K-1 and K-1 II also have 4-motors total but I'm unsure about the Kp.
You are right about the K3/II but I doubt the KP has it.
K1 most likely 4 motors as well.
04-21-2021, 04:50 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
You are right about the K3/II but I doubt the KP has it.
If the Kp keeps the mirror up when taking a shot in live view (using mechanical shutter) then it has all 4-motors. Unfortunately I don't have a kp here to confirm. Also apologies to the OP if this thread has got a little off topic from the sound of his K-S2.

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