[ChristianRock]

I've always assumed (along with everybody else I guess) that the wonderful sensor that Pentax has used in the K-S1 and K-S2 was made by Sony, but when I look at the specs in the A3000/A5000, the number of pixels is slightly different (23.5 x 15.7mm / 5472x3648 pixels and 20.3MP in the case of Pentax; 23.5mm x 15.6mm / 5456 x 3632 and 20.1MP in the case of the A3000/A5000).

I have been looking at how cheap the 20.3MP Samsung cameras are, how small some are and thinking that they might be the pocketable solution I need (with either the 20mm or 30mm pancake lenses), and started noticing how the colors and rendering are so similar to what I get from the K-S1 and K-S2. That is when I started to compare the specs and noticed that the Pentax sensors actually match the Samsung specs exactly. Also, the A3000 pictures have a different look, at least to my eyes...

I had always wondered why I love the output from the K-S1 and K-S2 and never quite liked the K-3 and K-50 quite as much (I did love the output from the K20D, which is definitely a Samsung sensor, just never liked how awful the high ISO and shadow noise were). To me the explanation is clear... K-S1 and K-S2 use the Samsung 20.3MP sensor that debuted in 2011 with the NX200.

I can't find where this has been discussed anywhere, but at least to me it's an interesting topic

[Mbaez]

I've always assumed (along with everybody else I guess) that the wonderful sensor that Pentax has used in the K-S1 and K-S2 was made by Sony, but when I look at the specs in the A3000/A5000, the number of pixels is slightly different (23.5 x 15.7mm / 5472x3648 pixels and 20.3MP in the case of Pentax; 23.5mm x 15.6mm / 5456 x 3632 and 20.1MP in the case of the A3000/A5000).

I have been looking at how cheap the 20.3MP Samsung cameras are, how small some are and thinking that they might be the pocketable solution I need (with either the 20mm or 30mm pancake lenses), and started noticing how the colors and rendering are so similar to what I get from the K-S1 and K-S2. That is when I started to compare the specs and noticed that the Pentax sensors actually match the Samsung specs exactly. Also, the A3000 pictures have a different look, at least to my eyes...

I had always wondered why I love the output from the K-S1 and K-S2 and never quite liked the K-3 and K-50 quite as much (I did love the output from the K20D, which is definitely a Samsung sensor, just never liked how awful the high ISO and shadow noise were). To me the explanation is clear... K-S1 and K-S2 use the Samsung 20.3MP sensor that debuted in 2011 with the NX200.

I can't find where this has been discussed anywhere, but at least to me it's an interesting topic

Thanks to your bad influence I got a KS-1 I've shot some test portraits in two sessions and my first impressions are that it has better skin colors than my K3 and KP. I like it.

[ChristianRock]

Thanks to your bad influence I got a KS-1 I've shot some test portraits in two sessions and my first impressions are that it has better skin colors than my K3 and KP. I like it.

It definitely does, it's very noticeable. Now that I made the Samsung connection it really makes sense, the K20D was ace for skin tones as well!

[luftfluss]

.....

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Last edited by luftfluss; 11-07-2022 at 09:54 PM.

[ChristianRock]

A comparison with the NX 30 would be better as Samsung kept improving noise from 2011 to 2014 when the K-S1 came out. The NX30 rating is much closer to the K-S1.

[luftfluss]

A comparison with the NX 30 would be better as Samsung kept improving noise from 2011 to 2014 when the K-S1 came out. The NX30 rating is much closer to the K-S1.

I was just going by your statement:

To me the explanation is clear... K-S1 and K-S2 use the Samsung 20.3MP sensor that debuted in 2011 with the NX200.

There is a discussion about the K-S2 sensor here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3833883 ...asahi man states the sensor is Sony... of course there is no inflection in his statement, so one can only guess if he knows this as a fact or merely presenting an opinion.

Note that the resolution of the K-S1/K-S2 is listed by Pentax as 20.12MP (and also, 5472x3648 = 19,961,856)

[jimr-pdx]

I was a big fan of the nx300; its pdaf 20Mpx sensor had fast AF, and a color pallette that feels similar to SATOBI.

Sony's k-x+r 12Mpx and (allegedly) K-Sx 20Mpx sensors had strangely brief lifespans. Both did nice work but were swept away by quick 16/24Mpx sensor introductions.

[D1N0]

Not likely. I don't think the Samsung/Pentax cooperation ended well. A good relationship with Sony is crucial for access to competitive sensors. I don't think Samsung was selling there improved sensors like the one in the NX-1 they wanted to become an industry leader so no sense in helping competitors. It turned out camera's were becoming a niche so they focussed on smartphone photography instead. NX mount wasn't suitable for full frame anyway and the was were Sony was leading the industry to. Too much investment in a too small market with strong competition from the Japanese Camera makers, so they ditched it.

[ChristianRock]

I was just going by your statement:




There is a discussion about the K-S2 sensor here: who made the sensor used in K-S2?: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review ...asahi man states the sensor is Sony... of course there is no inflection in his statement, so one can only guess if he knows this as a fact or merely presenting an opinion.

Note that the resolution of the K-S1/K-S2 is listed by Pentax as 20.12MP (and also, 5472x3648 = 19,961,856)

The resolution is 5472x3648 as you said. The sensor is 23.5x15.6 - all of this is from the Ricoh Japan site. These match the Samsung sensor exactly.

All media I could find on the Sony sensor says the resolution is 5456 x 3632 and the sensor size is 23.2 x 15.4 mm according to dpreview.

The whole thing about "not wanting to upset Sony" by buying sensors elsewhere for some products is, I'm sorry, hogwash. Sony wants to sell and make money, so this kind of things actually puts pressure on them to make competitive products and price them right. Remember how Nikon went to Toshiba for some of their cameras, then back to Sony only because the Toshiba sensor had a banding issue? Nobody wants to depend too much on one supplier alone, unless it's a long term formal partnership.

Also, Samsung's 20MP sensor wasn't something they wanted to protect to dominate the industry at that point... the 28MP sensor was pretty high tech, the 20MP not so much. But the latter delivered some fantastic images.

I don't think anyone can be 100% sure, but what I see points me to Samsung.

[The Squirrel Mafia]

I was under the impression that the K-S1/S2 was using the same sensor that was beong used in the Sony a58. I coild be wrong, though.

[pres589]

Are these cameras primed to be the next "remember how great CCD cameras were for film-like image quality?" targets?

Think of how much better a K-01 follow-up would have been with one of these sensors!

[luftfluss]

The resolution is 5472x3648 as you said. The sensor is 23.5x15.6 - all of this is from the Ricoh Japan site. These match the Samsung sensor exactly.

All media I could find on the Sony sensor says the resolution is 5456 x 3632 and the sensor size is 23.2 x 15.4 mm according to dpreview.

It's not unusual, though, for the same sensor to produce slightly different-sized images, when used in different brand cameras. And two individuals who have had some connection to Pentax in the past have declared that the sensor used was made by Sony.

But you might be right, and the sensor is Samsung - and you have provided some support for your theory. What caught my eye was in your OP where you stated, "K-S1 and K-S2 use the Samsung 20.3MP sensor that debuted in 2011 with the NX200". I think the DXOMark comparison I posted does a good job demonstrating that that sensor was not likely used by Pentax, given its poor high-ISO performance. I guess the next step would be to compare the K-S1 sensor with the Samsung NX30.

I did briefly own the K-S2, K-70, K-01, and K-3 II simultaneously. IMO the K-S2 and K-70 had very similar color performance, while the K-01 and K-3 II were a bit different.

Interestingly, the 20MP sensor in my Panasonic G9 reminds me greatly of the K-S2/K-70 in terms of color, although I've yet to photograph a human with it.

[luftfluss]

Are these cameras primed to be the next "remember how great CCD cameras were for film-like image quality?" targets?

Think of how much better a K-01 follow-up would have been with one of these sensors!

I think nostalgia is a helluva drug Eventually, nearly every older camera gets brought up as a model of some sort of virtue.

I still remember the daze of folks complaining the 10MP CCD did not produce as pleasant an image as the 6MP version.

[ChristianRock]

Are these cameras primed to be the next "remember how great CCD cameras were for film-like image quality?" targets?

Think of how much better a K-01 follow-up would have been with one of these sensors!

I think nostalgia is a helluva drug Eventually, nearly every older camera gets brought up as a model of some sort of virtue.

I still remember the daze of folks complaining the 10MP CCD did not produce as pleasant an image as the 6MP version.

Because every camera sensor output is exactly the same, the only thing that varies is the megapixels, right?

As far as CCDs... yes we got off topic... every Kodak sensor seems to be quite awesome in terms of color (talking of the 4/3 sensors). As for Sony, I definitely like the 10MP better than anything I've seen from the 6MP, and I think the 14MP CCD they made is even better. YMMV...

[ChristianRock]

Of course it could very well be that Samsung wasn't even making APS-C sensors anymore and just decided to buy them from Sony, and that they are all Sonys...

What I do know is that when I look at NX1000 or NX30 or NX3000 pictures, I find the color rendering more similar to what I get from the K-S1/K-S2... and the A3000/A5000 seems to look have a bit of a different look... reminds me more of the K-3.