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03-31-2016, 05:22 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohmic314 Quote
A lot of people here also assume that I will have the camera repaired in less than 2 months. Given the experience from others in this forum, it could take 6 months before I get the camera back. Should I start the complaint after 6 months?
You don't really have a complaint prior to damages.
Right now your damages are that your camera has been in the shop for a matter of weeks.
Everything beyond that is speculation.

03-31-2016, 06:11 PM - 4 Likes   #32
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It's all in who you are.

I bought a very expensive collector camera from an eBay seller in Australia. I paid immediately. Then I heard nothing for a week. There were no entries to the sale by the seller like date shipped or tracking number. I sent a Message and two days later the seller replied he would ship the next day and send the tracking number; I replied "OK. Thanks". Again, nothing for a week. I sent another message and two days later the seller replied he had shipped the camera and would post the Tracking number to eBay and PayPal as soon as his wife got home with the receipt, and signed with his name. And then nothing for a third week.

At that point I was getting a bit worried, so I looked into the eBay refund guarantee; in two more days, due to the expected long shipping time from Australia I could claim a refund. So I waited the two days and sent one last message - Hi (name).. Are you OK down there? I'd sure like to know my camera isn't lost in the mail. Can you put the Tracking number in eBay please?

Within an hour I got the "Your Item has Shipped" email from eBay with the Tracking number. I put it in USPS tracking and, lo and behold, the camera was 'Out for Delivery'. It came later that day. I went to eBay to do the Feedback and there was a message from the guy's wife, in his account, thanking me for my patience and apologizing for the communication.

She wrote the guy's brother had died in a farming accident too far from a hospital and he had been despondent. His wife had had to fulfill the sale, but she had never done eBay or shipped anything to the USA, and she said she had done as well as she could - and she hoped I liked the camera because (name) certainly did. And thanked me again.

Now I can choose to be a cynic and call BS on the story and leave a Negative feedback, or I can choose to be a believer and forgive. It's my choice what to do. After all, I eventually got the camera and it is exquisite, exactly as described.

Since I had his address on the package I chose to send a sympathy card and leave a really good feedback.

It's all in who you are - or who you want to be.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-31-2016 at 06:45 PM.
03-31-2016, 10:31 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohmic314 Quote
My intent is to tell Ricoh that it is unacceptable to have people wait 2 months or more to repair a camera that broke because they did a bad job making it
You keep saying two months, but it has only been a couple of weeks. Where did the two month period come from?

QuoteOriginally posted by Quartermaster James Quote
You don't really have a complaint prior to damages.
Right now your damages are that your camera has been in the shop for a matter of weeks.
What he said. Based on your account, at this point there is no evidence of negligence or fraud. Between 5% and 8% of all interchangeable lens cameras (all brands) are defective from the factory or develop serious problem*. Yours failed while still under warranty, the same as if it were your car and it had been part of a safety recall.


Steve

* Per Consumer Reports Web site

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-31-2016 at 10:40 PM.
04-01-2016, 06:00 AM   #34
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Ok, I really didn't want to mention this as I was mostly happy to get my K50 out of jail, but here goes. I had been waiting for an aperture control block replacement from Precision Camera and time was ticking. So, since I also had an out of warranty K30 with an aperture control block I called Sun Camera in Canada(Sun Camera Service - Your Complete Photo, Video, and Digital Camera Repair Center) and asked if they could repair it. They said that there were customs issues, but they had had the part for weeks. So, I sent a very polite email to saying that it seemed that the part was available and that perhaps they could look to Ricoh to expedite parts shipment. Amazingly I got an email back to say that parts had just arrived and within a week I had my camera.

Now I'm not going to color this with what I think could be going on here, but I suggest that you call Sun Camera, verify that parts are available from the Colorado supplier and then send an email of inquiry to Precision Camera. It cannot hurt your cause and may, magically, get your camera out of stir. Incidentally, when you do get it back, let us all know if it overexposes. Mine overexposes by about 2 stops, but I'm really reluctant to send it back as long as I can compensate (and use my growing fleet of M42 lenses on the K30).

04-01-2016, 09:24 AM   #35
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Sun may have the part sitting on their shelf, that doesn't mean Precision does. Since Precision is the main warranty service center their consumption of parts inventory may be much higher than Sun's. They probably have larger orders of parts for inventory too which can take longer to ship.

If the unit is still under warranty Sun is not going to touch it. It also is a bit shady to make business related inquiries to a party that you have no intention of doing business with.

And how do you know if the OPs camera is even needs the same parts as yours?
04-01-2016, 02:48 PM   #36
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For your info, I had a real reason to call Sun. I have an out of warranty K30 with a dead ACB. Sun would have been happy to fix it but there were potential issues with Customs. In the discussion, they mentioned that they had received their supply of aperture control blocks a few weeks ago - they were not sitting on a shelf. My interaction with Sun Camera did not require any stretching of the truth and I believe the follow up email to Precision actually had results. Call that shady if you want, but it seems to have changed the dynamic.
04-01-2016, 03:13 PM   #37
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I think that I may be leaving a bad impression on people by being honest and saying what I plan to do, instead of saying what I have done. I have not demanded my camera back or threatened to sue anyone. I have:
  • Kindly asked Ricoh how long it takes to repair my camera and agreed that 3-5 days is an acceptable amount of time - they said I need to send it to Precision Camera and I paid out of my own pocket to send it there
  • Kindly waited to receive my camera back for weeks
  • Received a notice from Precision camera saying the part is back-ordered and won't be available for several weeks (that does not include additional repair time)
  • Kindly spoke to customer service who agreed that the expected date is unreasonable and customer service asked me to send a webmail so he can forward it to corporate
  • Sent a webmail stating my situation and that I found more than a month of repair time is unacceptable. Please provide one of the following: a repair in 1 month, a loaner camera, a replacement, or a refund. If they believe I am unreasonable, please contact me to let me know what they believe to be a better solution
  • Patiently waited a week for a reply but heard nothing
  • Requested advice from forums to see what is a potential remedy that might be a better alternative than what I've already thought of. Learned that many people have had experiences that it will take up to 6 months to receive the camera back despite what Precision Camera promises.
  • Requested support from the BBB and the state consumer protection to please have Ricoh respond to my email for what I can do to move forward with this and not just sitting and waiting
  • Patiently waited for almost another week without a response
I believe there is a lot of misconception on what the BBB and consumer protection can do and who they are. They are arbitrators and not legal services. They forward requests and ensure people are not making unreasonable requests. They also make that information public so people can see how the business responds. If Ricoh responds well and explains the delay, then it builds on their character and reputation - publicly. If they dismiss it without response, then that shows they may not be taking my complaint seriously. Regardless of what Ricoh does, they will not do anything other than listen and say party A is being reasonable or not.

If Ricoh comes back and tells me something like, "We're really sorry for the troubles, it turns out that this part was manufactured poorly and we've had a recent uptick in a failure of this part. We're currently back-ordered because we purged the suspect parts and are trying to rebuild stocks to replace all the bad ones." I would immediately thank them for keeping me honestly informed of the situation. I understand those things happen and please do what they can to fix it as soon as possible. I could tell people on the forums to be on the lookout for this failure and expect longer than usual repair times. It is not Ricoh's fault as their supplier had a bad batch of parts.

If Ricoh doesn't reply to me, I can't do anything but speculate. I can only read the forums, hear that Precision Camera takes their sweet time for no reason, and no one knows what to do to make it go by any faster.

I will reiterate that I think highly of Ricoh. I believe they are a good company that has designed a good product. I do like the K50. That's why I want my camera back (or an exact replacement). Otherwise, I'd be asking for my money back.
04-01-2016, 03:53 PM   #38
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Restating your self-absorbed demands in more polite, calmer language really doesn't change anything. Many have tried to explain but you don't hear them.

boriscleto invoked


Last edited by monochrome; 04-01-2016 at 03:59 PM.
04-01-2016, 04:14 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohmic314 Quote
Otherwise, I'd be asking for my money back.
It just occurred to me that if this matter drags on and you bought your K-50 from Costco, they may very well refund your purchase price. If not, well...see above 2+ pages of comments...


Steve
04-01-2016, 04:33 PM   #40
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Was this bought through Costco? If so, by all means contact their concierge service. They advertise warranty assistance.

Also, FWIW, I sent my camera to Precision for repair late last year. It took a while, about 60 days from shipping it out to having it back in hand, and communication wasn't great, but the work was solid. Nice new shutter count too:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/302171-why-penta...ml#post3456164

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/302171-why-penta...ml#post3456280

It seems the stories of real aggravation involve lens repair more than camera repair.

Hope yours resolves promptly and positively.

Last edited by Quartermaster James; 04-01-2016 at 04:55 PM.
04-01-2016, 04:55 PM   #41
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Costco's return policy on electronics such as cameras, TVs etc. is 90 days. It used to be "lifetime" but people were abusing that and returning big screen TVs and such after a year or two so they could upgrade to newer models more or less for free.

I can't find the Warranty on the Ricoh Imaging USA website but looking at the Ricoh Imaging Canada site which I recall as being similar it states:
QuoteQuote:
"to the original retail purchaser for a period of one year from date of purchase against defects in material and/or workmanship.

2. This warranty is limited to repair of defects in material and/or workmanship. These repairs will be made at no charge to the customer."
No where is there any mention of turn around times for repairs other than the period of coverage of the warranty.

Further more looking at Precision's Service & Repair Terms & Conditions:
QuoteQuote:
Limitation of Liability: PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC. IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY FAILURES OR DELAYS IN PERFORMING UNDER THIS AGREEMENT THAT ARE DUE TO EVENTS OUTSIDE OF ITS REASONABLE CONTROL. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE LAW, THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF PRECICION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC. AND THEIR OFFICERS, AGENTS, AND EMPLOYEES WILL UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RESULTING FROM THE PERFORMANCE OR OMISSION OF ANY REPAIR SERVICES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF REVENUE; LOSS OF ACTUAL OR ANTICIPATED PROFIT (INCLUDING LOSS OF PROFITS ON CONTRACTS); LOSS OF REPUTATION; LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY; LOSS OF USE OF MONEY; LOSS OF ANTICIPATED SAVINGS; LOSS OF BUSINESS; LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY; LOSS OF GOODWILL; LOSS OF REPUTATION; LOSS OF, DAMAGE TO, OR CORRUPTION OF DATA; OR ANY COSTS OF RECOVERING, PROGRAMMING, OR RESTORING ANY PROGRAM OR DATA STORED ON YOUR PRODUCT OR ANY FAILURE TO MAINTAIN THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF DATA STORED ON YOUR PRODUCT. PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC. SPECIFICALLY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT IT WILL BE ABLE TO (1) REPAIR OR REPLACE YOUR PRODUCT WITOUT RISK TO OR LOSS OF PROGRAMS OR DATA, OR (2) MAINTAIN THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF DATA. IF ANY PRODUCT SHOULD BE DAMAGED OR LOST WHILE IN PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC.íS CUSTODY, PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC.íS LIABILITY WILL BE LIMITED TO THE COST OF REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF THE AFFECTED PRODUCT. OTHERWISE PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC.íS LIABILITY FOR ANY AND ALL DAMAGE SHALL IN NO EVENT EXCEED THE PAYMENTS RECEIVED BY PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC. FOR SERVICES PROVIDED PURSUANT TO THESE TERMS. THE REMEDIES SET FORTH HEREIN SHALL BE YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES FOR ANY BREACH BY PRECISION CAMERA & VIDEO REPAIR, INC. UNDER THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.
The wait time for parts to be delivered is outside Precision's reasonable control.
04-01-2016, 05:49 PM - 1 Like   #42
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I feel for the OP having been on nearly 6 week warranty wait myself and having had two ACB failures (K30 and K50). And, I'm really shocked to hear anyone defending the repair system as being ok and industry standard and hey didn't you read the warranty. As in, don't think of yourself as a customer of a company think of yourself as someone grateful when your camera eventually gets back. Usually a number 4 or 5 tries harder but there is no outward evidence of that. A little transparency from Ricoh would go a long way towards making things better.
04-01-2016, 06:08 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by kernos Quote
I feel for the OP having been on nearly 6 week warranty wait myself and having had two ACB failures (K30 and K50). And, I'm really shocked to hear anyone defending the repair system as being ok and industry standard and hey didn't you read the warranty. As in, don't think of yourself as a customer of a company think of yourself as someone grateful when your camera eventually gets back. Usually a number 4 or 5 tries harder but there is no outward evidence of that. A little transparency from Ricoh would go a long way towards making things better.
Im not defending Ricoh or Prescicion in any way, i was victim of the Aperture Lever on the K30 (and out of warranty), im think Ricoh must repair free of charge all the cameras even out of warranty, i buy the camera in USA my camera fail in Mexico where i live, im knew i was on my own on the warranty but i really love that camera, i manage to repair in 1 week after 90usd payment on a small shop on Mexico City....but i believe all the action taken for the OP are little above the circumstances, the camera fail, he send the camera to repair, repair says "we dont have thr parts, you must wait to make the repair"... The warranty is being honored and the service is provided, im sorry, the way i read all this thread is like a rant about his camera not being repaired in 1 week.
04-01-2016, 06:14 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by kernos Quote
I feel for the OP having been on nearly 6 week warranty wait myself and having had two ACB failures (K30 and K50). And, I'm really shocked to hear anyone defending the repair system as being ok and industry standard and hey didn't you read the warranty. As in, don't think of yourself as a customer of a company think of yourself as someone grateful when your camera eventually gets back. Usually a number 4 or 5 tries harder but there is no outward evidence of that. A little transparency from Ricoh would go a long way towards making things better.
But, you see, this IS the industry standard. If you want the kind of service you are asking for here (parts inventory, loaner cameras, replacement cameras) you have to pay more for the new cameras. You can't pay these ridiculously low prices for what is effectively a handheld computer and also receive Hasselblad service.

The comments on this post are more reference to the OP's tone and expectations than they are support of Ricoh. There just isn't anything anyone can do about parts out of stock. It's bad luck, it's frustrating, it sux - but complaining and threatening won't change anything and won't help. We all agree Precision communication isn't very good, but they HAVE been getting better lately.
04-01-2016, 06:26 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by kernos Quote
I feel for the OP having been on nearly 6 week warranty wait myself and having had two ACB failures (K30 and K50). And, I'm really shocked to hear anyone defending the repair system as being ok and industry standard and hey didn't you read the warranty. As in, don't think of yourself as a customer of a company think of yourself as someone grateful when your camera eventually gets back. Usually a number 4 or 5 tries harder but there is no outward evidence of that. A little transparency from Ricoh would go a long way towards making things better.
I don't think anyone is defending Ricoh or the current state of the repair system. Ricoh is not really involved except to pay Precision for the repair. And to step in if Precision drops the ball. But that has not happened here. The camera will be repaired when the parts are available. Filing consumer complaints against a company that has done nothing wrong is the issue.
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