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05-01-2016, 05:57 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sure why not? Especially if I think they could fix it better there why should I object? I don't understand your point.
When your car is in Japan three months for repair and you walk to work, you will understand much better.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Since it is a warranty repair there is no credit card charge.
Anything I buy on my credit cards can come off just as fast as it went on. If it can't on yours, you have the wrong cards.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
And the warranty says no where that they will use only a USA repair shop. Why would they?
And it doesn't say they have to repair it in six months or five years. You don't have to be an attorney to know about "reasonable expectations" regarding warranty practices. There are federal laws as well as state laws that clearly define this.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe the lens is new enough and there have been so few issues that no one at Precision has been trained on it, or they don't have calibration equipment for it.
While I do agree that the lens should be inspected for user damage, this is not difficult and does not require a trip to Japan, for heavens sake!
If Pentax is to have a repair center here, it needs to be able to make repairs, or at least make decisions to replace in a timely manner. Otherwise, they don't really have a repair center here. Again..if your Toyota dealer can't repair your Toyota without sending it back to Japan, then he really doesn't have a repair center here...it's that simple.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
That implies to me a desire to improve and check up on their production and QC.
I'm all for that...let them study it for as long as they want, while they provide me with a new lens.

In your particular case you are apparently not in dire need of this lens and the long wait is not an inconvenience to you. Maybe next time it is your camera body instead? Still no problem? Reckon how many here would give up their body for months while it travels across the ocean to Japan, and still consider it good service?

I'm going to stick with the fact that as long as poor service is tolerated it won't get any better. That is a fact, and years of undeniably poor service is living proof. It's sort of like saying "my wife cheats but I can live with it and it's going to get better". Really?

I rarely have warranty needs on products. I find most things perform as intended and do not look for problems. I seldom have to use the "nuclear option" of calling my CC provider, but if I don't get the service I paid for in a timely manner, you can bet I will not sit around and accept some shoddy runaround story.

Best Regards!

05-01-2016, 07:54 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sure why not? Especially if I think they could fix it better there why should I object? I don't understand your point.

Since it is a warranty repair there is no credit card charge. And the warranty says no where that they will use only a USA repair shop. Why would they?

I really miss the point of your post Rupert. My lens failed and they are repairing it under warranty. I was surprised it went to Japan, but not upset. The 16-85 has (so far) been almost trouble free. In fact I think my post is the first one noting a lens failure. So maybe they want the lens back in Japan to see what happened to it. That implies to me a desire to improve and check up on their production and QC. Maybe the lens is new enough and there have been so few issues that no one at Precision has been trained on it, or they don't have calibration equipment for it. Who knows that is all speculation. But nothing here implies poor service, quite the opposite in my opinion.
It's fine if they ship it to Japan overnight and get it back to you in a week or maybe two from when you sent it to them. I'm guessing that's not happening. Although Tamron hasn't managed to fix my 17-50 yet (in my case the problem is intermittent and therefore I can't really blame them for that), they have kept their promise of 3-day turnaround, and that's about what turnaround needs to be. If they can't fix your lens in three days, they need to send you another one. Unfortunately that just means that you'll be starting over with the cycle of exchanging lenses with Pentax until you find a decent copy, so you could be looking at weeks or months for that process to play out.

I think the point you're missing is that you are without use of your lens while all this is happening.

Unlike a lot of people here I'm not buying the "lenses last forever" philosophy. Last they might, but stuff happens to them along the way. In many cases their designs become obsolete. The coatings deteriorate, or are grossly inferior to newer coatings. The plastic moving parts wear out and develop wobble. So I think we have to treat lenses, yes even $500 lenses, as disposable. Pentax needs to do that too, particularly because to Pentax, it's not a $500 lens. It's a $150 or $200 lens or whatever it costs them to make it. If it's obviously broken and they can't easily, quickly, and effectively fix it, they need to toss it and move on. If they want to examine it or run tests on it on their own time, fine.
05-01-2016, 09:20 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
I think the point you're missing is that you are without use of your lens while all this is happening.
Since it's my lens, no, I'm not missing that point at all.

I am really sorry I even bothered to post here. Obviously a lot of hate here over this issue. I'm not immune to complaining about Precision or the current Ricoh service in the US. But in this case I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for a bit longer because it does seem they are trying. I am still confused on how sending a lens to Japan for repair can be considered a negative. When I read the email I was quite happy that the techs in Japan were looking at it instead of Precision.

QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
If they can't fix your lens in three days, they need to send you another one.
Uh, no they don't. That isn't what the warranty says.

Anyway, I doubt anything I say is going to change anyone's mind so I'm going to just disagree with some in this thread and sign out.
05-01-2016, 11:24 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Does everyone agree that the lens caps should NOT be included? I'm a little uncomfortable with that. Somehow I doubt that it would be returned without them...

05-02-2016, 07:11 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Since it's my lens, no, I'm not missing that point at all.

I am really sorry I even bothered to post here. Obviously a lot of hate here over this issue. I'm not immune to complaining about Precision or the current Ricoh service in the US. But in this case I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for a bit longer because it does seem they are trying. I am still confused on how sending a lens to Japan for repair can be considered a negative. When I read the email I was quite happy that the techs in Japan were looking at it instead of Precision.

Uh, no they don't. That isn't what the warranty says.

Anyway, I doubt anything I say is going to change anyone's mind so I'm going to just disagree with some in this thread and sign out.
I really hope you will continue giving updates, as there are many that are very interested to see how long it takes for your lens to be returned, and how it works when you get it.

It's your lens, and it's your right to allow Ricoh to handle this. We all chime in saying "we would do this, we wouldn't allow that, etc."; but it's not our lens, so our opinions really have no weight; only yours! So please stay in touch on the thread, as we are interested in the outcome.

Thanks for starting the thread!
05-02-2016, 07:24 AM   #21
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If Pentax wants to study my lens, they should pay me for the privilege. After all, it's my lens. They didn't sign a contract with me authorizing the renting of my lens so they could study it. IN some ways, Pentax is s a rinkiy dink company, and sending someone's lens to Japan for what should be a standard repair is definitely risky-dink. The proper thing to do would definitely be to provide the customer with at least a loaner while their technicians do their thing. If precision has 5-7 day turn around advertised on their site, that's what I agree to when I send them the lens. Keeping the lens longer than that constitutes fraud. Sending the lens to japan without pre-authorization / negotiation, is grounds for legal action. The lens is not their property, they don't have the right to just do what they want with it.

Like jatrax, I would probably just let this slide. But it does strike me that this is a really poor practice, where in Pentax is playing the limited risk game. The legal action that forced them to do the right thing, would be way more expensive than the possible benefit to the complainant. That may be good business practice, but it's a really poor customer service practice.
05-02-2016, 07:26 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
Thanks for starting the thread!
Well actually it's @shiner thread. I just posted as my 16-85 had failed shortly before his. Anyway, yes I will definitely update here when I have more news. Ricoh has promised to keep me updated as things progress so we will see.

Best,
John
05-02-2016, 07:29 AM   #23
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Thanks John, it will be appreciated! Sorry about my mistake of who started the thread.

05-02-2016, 10:59 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I am really sorry I even bothered to post here. Obviously a lot of hate here over this issue.
You shouldn't be sorry and there is no "hate" here just a big difference of opinion. We can accept your opinion even though some of us disagree. No one I know would want to silence your opinion. Opinions are just that, and not necessarily involving any hate. Heck, I don't even know you!

I had a buddy once who's wife cheated on him all the time......he liked it because when she was gone he didn't have to listen to her whining. We are all different, and while we might disagree, there is no room here for hate or hateful comments. You keep posting, don't get gun-shy here, it is not necessary.

I was certainly not attacking you personally, and neither was old Norm, just disagreeing with your opinion. You're most likely a pretty easy going good guy!

Best Regards!
05-02-2016, 11:15 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
Does everyone agree that the lens caps should NOT be included? I'm a little uncomfortable with that. Somehow I doubt that it would be returned without them...
I doubt that it will be returned with the exact caps as sent. FWIW: my camera came back with new D-rings and leathers installed, replacing those I had removed.
05-02-2016, 06:11 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sure why not? Especially if I think they could fix it better there why should I object? I don't understand your point.
I think he is hinting that they should have just replaced it on the spot rather than shipping the lens halfway around the world and back.


Steve
05-02-2016, 06:19 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Anything I buy on my credit cards can come off just as fast as it went on. If it can't on yours, you have the wrong cards.
Good luck on doing a charge-back outside the current billing cycle. Terms vary, but after about eight weeks, the card company is not very sympathetic. The other aspect, of course, is that a charge-back goes against the retail vendor, not the distributor (Ricoh N.A.). Except in the rare situation where shop inventory is actually owned by the distributor, the retail shop is where "the buck stops".


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-02-2016 at 06:25 PM.
05-02-2016, 06:22 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Anyway, I doubt anything I say is going to change anyone's mind so I'm going to just disagree with some in this thread and sign out.
For sure Looking forward, you might want to start a new thread in this section at some point where you can share your "sent to Japan" story in full. I am curious about the outcome.


Steve
05-02-2016, 06:43 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quartermaster James Quote
I doubt that it will be returned with the exact caps as sent. FWIW: my camera came back with new D-rings and leathers installed, replacing those I had removed.
I sent my 16-50 to them 3x and each time they sent it back with the same front and rear lens cap. And I know they looked at it at least once because the rear mounting ring was replaced (shiny, unscuffed metal) in one of their repair attempts. Before they completely replaced it with a new lens.

That said, I sent them a generic front and rear lens cap just in case.. Actually, now that I think of it they kept the front and rear lens caps the 3rd time but they gave me Pentax ones in the box of the new lens.

I still wouldn't send them prized accessories.. and I took the batttery and SD card out of the camera when they asked for that too on the 3rd repair attempt.


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I think he is hinting that they should have just replaced it on the spot rather than shipping the lens halfway around the world and back.
Bingo! If you don't mind them spending a month or so looking at your lens.. then go for it. However, some of us find that practice poor due to the terms of their own services and the fact that really they are keeping your property (lens) indefinitely. Meanwhile you're without your lens and your warranty time is being eaten up... your lens, your call.. but this seems like a pretty rough deal on your part... especially since no word of why or how long it will be in Japan or if they are even correcting the issues with it. And no one outside of the company knows because their communication skills with their customers absolutely stink..

If there is a production flaw then it's going to take several months at least to identify, correct, and reproduce a batch of lenses to get one to you. And if not well they could have saved you the hassle and just shipped you a new one from the get go.


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
For sure Looking forward, you might want to start a new thread in this section at some point where you can share your "sent to Japan" story in full. I am curious about the outcome.
Agreed. I am very interested in the outcome (Positive or Negative). And any information you get as to WHY the lens was sent to Japan and maybe even what they did (repair it there, study it, etc).
05-02-2016, 08:12 PM   #30
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OK, so it seems that the Repair section of the Ricoh website is broken. I can't seem to get to where the address of the facility is- only a mailing address that says not to ship to that location. Ricoh Imaging Americas Corporation - Service & Repair
This lens isn't listed, so you have to select "my model is not listed" from the list of lenses. It then takes you to this page Contact Us
So I tried the email "click here", and was taken to a page that suggested I was lost... :/
Oh, and I called them this morning only to be told to go to this same page to find the address.
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