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06-24-2016, 09:03 AM - 1 Like   #16
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I understand your anger, I almost send my camera to PM2S because I have a loose screw on my K3 buid-in flash. Luckily I have a second thought and just live with it, too much trouble to send the camera, wait for the investigation, pay the big bill and receive it months later. Wish the "service après vente" of Pentax will be done by themself in the future.

06-24-2016, 09:05 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
I don't think calling them crooks, and accusing them of sabotage is being courteous and respectful. While I certainly sympathize with what's happening to you; I don't know if this approach will entice Ricoh to respond in a helpful manner. We do wish the best possible outcome for you, and please keep this thread updated.
i'm not used to doing this either, i respect B2B & B2C ethics the more i can.

But when i'm scammed like this, and have all undoubtfull proofs to prove it, honestly, there's no other way. Justice takes years in court, while their crooky exercices can continue hurting other customers.
06-24-2016, 11:47 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
Hello everyone,

thought i should share this one with you

EMERGENCY NOTE TO
RICOH IMAGING / PENTAX , FUJIFILM & EPSON companies & consumers in France / Europe
23 / 06 / 2016...
.
.
.
.
.
forever
Well, that is certainly a long read. I seem to have lost the gist of your problem and what it has to do with Epson and Fujifilm.

Going back through it, this is how it reads:
  • You bought a K-3 and six months later it develops severe disfunction
  • You attempted to get the dealer to broker warranty service, but they refused, suggesting that you pay your own postage
  • The service center refused your warranty claim citing evidence of physical damage to the camera
  • There is back and forth regarding inspection by Ricoh...blah, blah, blah
  • You receive your camera back, completely dead when it was alive (sort of) but unusable before
  • Rather than press the point of the warranty service with Ricoh, you decide to open the camera (battery still installed ) and find evidence of tampering. Whether this happened as part of the service diagnosis or was administered as punishment is unknown.
  • As remedy you choose to spam* multiple Internet forums with your strange story Edit: and promise lawsuits against Ricoh and PM2S
That last point is obviously a winning strategy as is bombarding Ricoh with messages through all conceivable channels. Both will bring them (and maybe even PM2S) to their knees weeping and begging your forgiveness in at least five different languages. It also serves as a warning to EPSON and Fujifilm too, the villains!

Sorry to be less than sympathetic, but your "hammer" approach here is a little off-putting. The de-soldered wires are quite alarming and I am suitably shocked and amazed, but surely EU consumer protection provides you better remedy than the sympathy of a bunch of anonymous forum members. (FWIW, there is no evidence that Ricoh/Pentax monitors this forum nor do they have any obvious official presence here.)


Steve

* Classic spam is cross-posting identical messages across multiple mail list, newsnet, or forum groups in an attempt to make one's voice large.

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-24-2016 at 01:36 PM.
06-24-2016, 12:43 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Well, that is certainly a long read. I seem to have lost the gist of your problem and what it has to do with Epson and Fujifilm.

Sorry to be less than sympathetic, but your "hammer" approach here is a little off-putting. The de-soldered wires are quite alarming and I am suitably shocked and amazed, but surely EU consumer protection provides you better remedy than the sympathy of a bunch of anonymous forum members. (FWIW, there is no evidence that Ricoh/Pentax monitors this forum nor do they have any obvious official presence here.)


Steve

* Classic spam is cross-posting identical messages across multiple mail list, newsnet, or forum groups in an attempt to make one's voice large.
Dear Steve i am sorry you didn't catch / well understood the story.
I am also sorry you didn't understand my purpose.

It is obviously very simple to get for others (&me ).

I'll resume it for you. The main problem here is the outsourcing of tech customer service. (this case PM2S, which gets in France & other countries Pentax Ricoh, Fujifilm & Epson) .
Some companies are a real mess. If attentive and careful users don't sound the alarm, situations keep degrading and episodes like this one can repeat, without the users knowledge or knowledge of the companies outsourcing their tech support.
Some companies don't really have the choice at a given time. Maybe Ricoh, economically, doesn't have another choice to choose another company than the crooky PM2S.

My case has nothing unusual, companies are made by man, and some man aren't etchical, nor good. They can sink up a good business because they think too much profit and not enough seriousness.

I don't want to shut my mouth when i'm in my complete and undoubtfull rights (i filmed the opening, when i received the camera). Especially when i'm a victim of a scam and that i know other users can be.

As for my "spam", if you have a problem with it, go complain against all the companies that invade internet with adverts before. Don't come accusing an honest photographer of posting an important problem on a pentax forum.


06-24-2016, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
As for my "spam", if you have a problem with it, go complain against all the companies that invade internet with adverts before. Don't come accusing an honest photographer of posting an important problem on a pentax forum.
Let me get this straight, Bogdan, you hit 20-some Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, and Fuji-related Facebook accounts including the one for Pentax Forums, with the same thing you posted here. Strangely, you did not post it public to your own "Timeline" where potential customers might read it. My accusation stands...SPAM...righteous crusader, but still SPAM.

BTW...I think they should fix your camera. Let us know how the lawsuits go. Also, good luck with your broken 645D too.

Edit: Very impressive work on your Web site.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-24-2016 at 02:15 PM.
06-24-2016, 02:53 PM - 2 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Let me get this straight, Bogdan, you hit 20-some Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, and Fuji-related Facebook accounts including the one for Pentax Forums, with the same thing you posted here. Strangely, you did not post it public to your own "Timeline" where potential customers might read it. My accusation stands...SPAM...righteous crusader, but still SPAM.

BTW...I think they should fix your camera. Let us know how the lawsuits go. Also, good luck with your broken 645D too.

Edit: Very impressive work on your Web site.


Steve
Steve, thank you for your obsevations

HHonestly it takes time and bothers me a lot to do all this. But there's no other choice. What they did intentionally or by negligence is unnacceptable & illegal.
Not to mention Ricoh/Pentax is my most respected and loved photo company, it really annoys me to do this. (As for Fujifilm it comes in just after, and Epson , well i couldn't live without these guys, their products are amazing).

I also risk a civil lawsuit from their counterpart for doing this. They would loose it of course, but it's time & nerve consuming too.

As for "spamming" i'm really keeping it low profile for now, as my papers and charges are almost ready to reach the court next week, i'm waiting for their response before. It will go or not on my timeline and inbox of my usual clients & partners once i have some replies from them. And there's still obviously Linkedin, Youtube for the videos, and a good lot of other public means of making them take proper action so that this kind of shameful acts don't hurt the company and its users in the future.

But let's hope this will all end benefitting Ricoh Imaging and their (hopefully growing up number of) customers.
06-24-2016, 03:19 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Let me get this straight, Bogdan, you hit 20-some Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, and Fuji-related Facebook accounts including the one for Pentax Forums, with the same thing you posted here. Strangely, you did not post it public to your own "Timeline" where potential customers might read it. My accusation stands...SPAM...righteous crusader, but still SPAM.

BTW...I think they should fix your camera. Let us know how the lawsuits go. Also, good luck with your broken 645D too.

Edit: Very impressive work on your Web site.


Steve
What about...aperture Problems of K30/50..I like Pentax..I'm fine with the AF...but thing as these are putting me off...
06-24-2016, 03:32 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by AldaCZ Quote
What about...aperture Problems of K30/50..I like Pentax..I'm fine with the AF...but thing as these are putting me off...
Definitely effecting the price of tea in China...

06-24-2016, 07:11 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
Please restrict your opinion to the countries, where that is correct.
In Germany no camera will be sent there, because there is at least one facility to do repairs officially - i know two others facilities -, for germany austria and switzerland.

And I think your word are a little bit to harsh.
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
If this story is true, then they CUT WIRES and returned the camera to the owner damaged (by them). HOW is the OPs response harsh?
I would totally be a lot harsher if that happened to me AND with (apparent) proof of wrongdoing such as the OP is presenting.
06-25-2016, 04:59 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Definitely effecting the price of tea in China...
well...It's the reason why EU has ONE GB free, actually
06-25-2016, 06:26 AM - 2 Likes   #26
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Contact an "association de consommateurs" (ex: 60 millions de consommateurs), they usually have some leverage in France.
06-25-2016, 10:37 AM   #27
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keep us informed, your case could be very useful for other Pentaxians in France.
06-25-2016, 02:41 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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Spam...right....wrong....no way I can know, I don't know the OP or his integrity...I am not questioning it, I just have no knowledge to make a call.

I do know that if I am in the right, receive shoddy service and no remedy, then I simply pick up my phone..."Hello Discovercard, I would like a charge removed from my account of a product under warrant where the warranty was not fulfilled." Done, over, no longer my problem. There are protections that you can use if you are cautious, and I use them. Now the problem is no longer mine and I am protected by laws that will make the seller respond or lose money. If they lose enough money they will make the responsible party ......responsible. Isn't that all we ask for?

Regards!
06-25-2016, 03:40 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
And there it is, 5 colored cables / wires intentionally detached and /or cut. The conclusion is obvious,
I have taken early model Pentax dslrs apart .
It was necessary to desolder certain wires similar to those in your photos in order to take the camera apart, then resolder during re-assembly.
I am surprised to see that shaky, point to point tight wiring method is still used on the K-3. With this method I have seen weak points at the stress concentration where the strands emerge from the solder pads.

So there may be other explanations, contrary to your conclusions, although I agree the camera should not have been returned like that.
Perhaps the service was held for some time (maybe because not worthwhile to continue) then the camera was screwed back together without resoldering.
I have done that to put them in the scrap parts box.

The bottom line is that the life cycle of this stuff is just to click together as cheaply as possible, serviceability is not a consideration.
Then ship as fast as possible to end user to be sent to land fill at end of life, QA aim for acceptable % of customers with hissing fits.

I have just been going through service problems with a costly film scanner. I maintained a cordial relationship with the manufacturer.
When it works it performs beautifully, so they nearly got it right.
But is is doomed by multiple faults -Some plastic mouldings are poorly designed and toleranced.
The firmware has crazy bugs in it. The UI is partly inop, exceptions are unhandled, and the documentation is incomplete.
I bet the persons that designed this thing have long moved on. Those there now can not help although they did try.
They gave me service info to tear it down to see if i could fix it !


That thing is toast. It never really worked even before/after the original was replaced under warranty.

I suppose in this day and age we just have to factor in risk of the occasional lemon and move on.
06-25-2016, 04:51 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
I have taken early model Pentax dslrs apart .
It was necessary to desolder certain wires similar to those in your photos in order to take the camera apart, then resolder during re-assembly.
I am surprised to see that shaky, point to point tight wiring method is still used on the K-3. With this method I have seen weak points at the stress concentration where the strands emerge from the solder pads.

So there may be other explanations, contrary to your conclusions, although I agree the camera should not have been returned like that.
Perhaps the service was held for some time (maybe because not worthwhile to continue) then the camera was screwed back together without resoldering.
I have done that to put them in the scrap parts box.
.
Thanks for your time, your concern and for sharing your point of view !

I couldn't agree more, but why then no answer from PM2S or Ricoh Imaging France or Europe has been provided yet, at least mentioning your point of view about why those cables were like this ? since i asked them and told them this was unnaceptable?

Personally... i don't care that much about the 1,000 i paid for the K3 prestige pack. It does not mean much next to what i earn & invest.
If some of the 4,000 pics i managed to do with brought me & others enough satisfaction or if some of them are printable for an exhibition and i sell them, there's no problem. Anyway, i could've dropped it, had it stolen, anything.

I'm well aware about the general industry/commercial facts you're exposing and you are right about them.

I only ask companies to be honest, respect regulations, laws and their customers. And honestly, this is as much for their benefit as for their customers.
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