Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-11-2017, 08:50 AM   #31
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 23
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
Suppose you live in the part of Cyprus that is e member of the EU.
Than you can point at EU consumer protection that says the supplier of defective goods under guarantee must be given two opportunities to repair defective items.
Repair must be carried carried out within reasonable time.

The camera was too long with repair centers in Athens and Paris.
If any damage due to moist exists Pentax Greece should have reported that immediately.
Even if there is damage due to moist present now it can not be lead back to you as the person causing the damage.
The camera was too long time in Greece.

Drop Pentax a line pointing out EU consumer protection and mention you have been extremely patient.
Demand a new camera which Pentax is obliged to supply according to EU regulation.

Initial cost for a body is about 100 euro. Apparently saving 100 euro is more important to well paid after sales managers than keeping customers happy. That Pentax is obliged to compensate a buyer under EU law makes it even more of a disgrace.

Keep my fingers crossed you will get your new camera quickly.


Paul
Thanks Paul,

I'm sure they know the regulation.
What I'm not sure is if it weights in how they conduct their customer service.

12-11-2017, 03:50 PM   #32
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Berlin
Posts: 296
If there was faulty sealing that would be a manufacturing flaw... but they may have tested the sealing, or they may not bother. It's possible to destroy a camera that is perfectly weather sealed through improper use however... especially if the lens is not weather sealed, or the lens is off etc.
Weather sealing on a camera isn't a standard if it's not rated, so there's potentially no test for what constitutes failure.
12-11-2017, 06:30 PM   #33
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 23
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Here in the U.S. a small claim against a corporation is more likely to result in a no-show by the company with the magistrate awarding depreciated value plus court fees. Alternatively, the court may simply consider the offer of the loaner as just compensation (used camera for used camera). Cameras here are amortized on a three year schedule and with two years post-purchase already having elapsed (the loaner counts as useful ownership) it would be wiser to accept the loaner, sell it, and apply the money to a similar model Nikon or Canon product with similar seal performance and warranty terms.
The two years haven't elapsed yet (I had the camera for ten months when I gave it,) they will by January 2018. Anyway, wiser how? Financially? I've written off the camera already.
Besides, changing system would cost me more than a beaten camera body would fetch.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
FWIW, marketing claims regarding the seals are only important if the camera had been splashed and the OP specifically stated it had not. In other words, it is a "red herring" in American slang.
So, marketing claims are of the essence only if I splashed it and then tried to deceive them? How about if I used it under rain, or was this your next question?


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Conventional wisdom on this side of the Atlantic is that purchase of "drop/splash/theft" protection for portable electronic devices and other items where warranty conditions are unfavorable is something to be considered. Such insurance usually replaces with a minimum of discussion.
That's a product primarily made to save you from accidents and extend the one year warranty which for most products is inadequate. It shouldn't be used to absolve manufacturers from fulfilling obligations which are included in the price the consumers have already paid for.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but experience with similar complaints/rants on this site have made me a little jaundiced. To be fair, there are other threads on this site where Ricoh Imaging, Europe has been called out for extreme slowness in regards to warranty claims. In this case, the initial response by the store and their agent in Greece appears to have been admirable with things getting slow once the camera went to France. The flash point appears to have been when the warranty was deemed voided several months ago with current expediency being determined by the warranty expiration. It is highly unlikely that Ricoh will be "embarrassed" into replacing a two-year old camera with new, but there may be some value to be had by invoking outrage in a handful of people on the Web. At present, it appears the claim with consumer protection has yet to be resolved, so perhaps that filing will be fruitful.

As I noted above, I do hope that the OP receives a solution they are happy with and also hope that they feel inclined to take part and contribute to the positive benefits of this forum.
No need to apologize, I'm not here to collect sympathy, take revenge or to express anger. I just want to hear the members' opinion about my arguments and let the community know about my experience with Ricoh's customer service.
Before buying my first Pentax (K-50) this was one of the places I looked for users' experiences. When I want to buy something I always read the bad reviews and I consider that a positive benefit of a forum or site.
Writing to you right now is a positive benefit. What's more healthy than exchanging arguments in a civilized manner?
Naturally not all the reviews and complaints are fair but that's not a reason to disregard all of them.
About Athens. They failed to fix the camera the first time and returned it to me as fixed. The second time, they spent more than two months with no result whatsoever and after France returned it to them they didn't even bother to communicate with me. What's admirable about that?

The claim with consumer protection is over. What they told me more or less on the phone is that the dealer evaded the questions asked by answering about another case after a very long wait.

---------- Post added 12-11-17 at 06:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dericali Quote
If there was faulty sealing that would be a manufacturing flaw... but they may have tested the sealing, or they may not bother. It's possible to destroy a camera that is perfectly weather sealed through improper use however... especially if the lens is not weather sealed, or the lens is off etc.
Weather sealing on a camera isn't a standard if it's not rated, so there's potentially no test for what constitutes failure.
I asked if they did and their answer was that they didn't because there is no way to check.
The mount has no seal anyway so by mounting a testing flange it would be possible to test the rest of the camera.

Before voiding a warranty because of humidity in the camera body, shouldn't they start ticking off things?

When they designed the K-3 there were not parameters set about WR that the camera had to comply with?
There are for temperature (-10).
12-12-2017, 12:30 AM   #34
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2017
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 425
QuoteOriginally posted by c_kamb Quote
Thanks Paul,

I'm sure they know the regulation.
What I'm not sure is if it weights in how they conduct their customer service.

I doubt Pentax knows the meaning of the EU consumer protection rules.
Won't do any harm to remember them and use this legislation to support your claim for a new camera.
If you happen to know a friendly lawyer ask him to use his stationairy to write the claim.

Make a copy of the letter and send that to Pentax or is it Ricoh to inform them how you have been treated as customer.
Watch the news in Japan, it is possible some poor bastard in those companies commits seppeku because of this.


(Seppeku is a ritual way to commit suicide)



Paul

12-12-2017, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #35
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 38,816
QuoteOriginally posted by c_kamb Quote
About Athens. They failed to fix the camera the first time and returned it to me as fixed. The second time, they spent more than two months with no result whatsoever and after France returned it to them they didn't even bother to communicate with me. What's admirable about that?
I decided to take a few minutes, review this thread, and do some research. The summary...
  • There was a significant issue with the your K-3II toward the end of October 2016
  • The camera was taken to Egalaxy in Cyprus and they sent it to their repair facility in Athens. This makes sense. Egalaxy in Athens is the authorized Ricoh/Pentax repair facility for Cyprus and the entity responsible for providing warranty service.
  • The camera was returned by Egalaxy (not clear whether it was repaired), but failed a few days later and taken back to Egalaxy again and from there sent to Egalaxy Athens where the camera stayed for several months with no action
  • During this period of time (January 2017), Egalaxy provided a K-3II loaner body
  • At some point the camera was sent to Ricoh/Pentax in France where evidence of water intrusion was detected. You were advised that warranty service was denied on that basis, but that Egalaxy would ask Ricoh/Pentax to replace it anyway.
  • The camera was sent back to Athens, though communication regarding the location of the camera and the status of the possible replacement was not forthcoming
  • Ricoh/Pentax Japan was brought into the loop
  • Ricoh/Pentax Europe confirmed the finding of water damage and informed that the camera was sent to Egalaxy in Athens. Egalaxy Athens had not communicated this to you.
  • Additional communication was made with both the local Egalaxy and the Egalaxy repair in Athens
  • The apparent end of the timeline is summer of 2017. It is not clear where your K-3II is nor is it clear where the loaner from Egalaxy is.
  • Attempts to resolve with government consumer protection have been unsuccessful
It would appear that your customer service complaints (both for the camera and the lens on a separate issue) are issues with Egalaxy. Is this correct? If so, it is difficult to see Ricoh/Pentax's responsibility for Egalaxy's poor service and lack of communication.*

I can understand being upset that warranty replacement was denied by Ricoh/Pentax and would definitely demand proof of the water intrusion. From reports from users on this site, it should be pretty obvious. Whether marketing claims for water resistance were made in bad faith by Ricoh/Pentax is a very valid question and concern. Whether the water intrusion happened in transit or at Egalaxy Athens is also a valid question. It is a shame that your local consumer protection are not interested in pursuing the matter further on your behalf.


Steve

* Poor communication and responsiveness from authorized repair facilities is a huge problem on this side of the Atlantic as well and is not limited to Ricoh/Pentax's chosen affiliates.
12-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #36
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2017
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 425
Sorry Steve, your conclusion is incorrect.
Pentax/Ricoh are not the party responsable to see that the customer gets what he paid for.
EU rules state that the seller of the body is responsable to compensate the buyer of items that fail repeatedly while still under warranty.

In this case Egalaxy seems to have communicated directly with the buyer.
That does not relieve the seller from its responsability to compensate the buyer.
12-12-2017, 09:09 PM   #37
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 14,448
Reading the war stories, Pentax owners in the US do seem to be lumbered by Precision being their authorized repairer. So are Sony owners, unfortunately.
12-12-2017, 09:47 PM   #38
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 38,816
QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
Sorry Steve, your conclusion is incorrect.
Pentax/Ricoh are not the party responsable to see that the customer gets what he paid for.
EU rules state that the seller of the body is responsable to compensate the buyer of items that fail repeatedly while still under warranty.

In this case Egalaxy seems to have communicated directly with the buyer.
That does not relieve the seller from its responsability to compensate the buyer.
While not explicitly stated in my comment above, my opinions are:
  • Egalaxy, as broker for the repair, is responsible for the customer service lapses. If you are correct regarding EU rules, Egalaxy (original seller) would also be responsible for the undesired outcome.
  • Ricoh/Pentax's role in this story is incidental to its findings in regards to the claims against its warranty
I suppose I was not clear in what I wrote.


Steve

12-12-2017, 10:42 PM   #39
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 14,448
Incidentally ... this courtesy of Nicolas06:

Lens Rentals | Blog
12-12-2017, 10:48 PM - 1 Like   #40
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 38,816
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Incidentally ... this courtesy of Nicolas06:

Lens Rentals | Blog
This should be set as a sticky somewhere. Roger Cicala does his usual excellent job of illumination except that he forgot to credit photographers who have yet to brick a camera because they treat the seals as if they are not there.


Steve
12-12-2017, 11:18 PM - 1 Like   #41
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
paulh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,030
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Incidentally ... this courtesy of Nicolas06:

Lens Rentals | Blog
Wow - great read. TFS! (Nicolas06 as well)
12-13-2017, 04:24 AM   #42
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 23
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
  • The camera was returned by Egalaxy (not clear whether it was repaired), but failed a few days later and taken back to Egalaxy again and from there sent to Egalaxy Athens where the camera stayed for several months with no action
Considering it presented similar symptoms like freezing and on/off switch not working after the next shooting (I think it was the next day after I picked it for the 1st time), I think it's safe to assume that it wasn't fixed or at least not fixed properly.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
  • Additional communication was made with both the local Egalaxy and the Egalaxy repair in Athens
Egalaxy Cyprus only, after I went to their shop by myself. As always they were apologizing but were clueless about what's going on (or at least that's what they claimed).

Ricoh's aftersale told me that Egalaxy Greece would communicate with me but they never did.


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
  • The apparent end of the timeline is summer of 2017. It is not clear where your K-3II is nor is it clear where the loaner from Egalaxy is.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It would appear that your customer service complaints (both for the camera and the lens on a separate issue) are issues with Egalaxy. Is this correct? If so, it is difficult to see Ricoh/Pentax's responsibility for Egalaxy's poor service and lack of communication.*

I can understand being upset that warranty replacement was denied by Ricoh/Pentax and would definitely demand proof of the water intrusion. From reports from users on this site, it should be pretty obvious. Whether marketing claims for water resistance were made in bad faith by Ricoh/Pentax is a very valid question and concern. Whether the water intrusion happened in transit or at Egalaxy Athens is also a valid question. It is a shame that your local consumer protection are not interested in pursuing the matter further on your behalf.
June 13th : Ricoh Imaging Europe responded to my first mail asking how my camera ended up in France and telling me there is an open case from Greece but they have to make sure.

June 14th: Confirmed it is the same case and told me they would find answers by the end of the week.

June 16th: They mailed me that the camera had a "fluid damage" which would be uneconomical to fix consequently the camera was sent back to Greece (didn't say when). Lastly he wrote that they inquired Egalaxy about the case and waited their response.

Didn't hear from them or Egalaxy for the next 20 days.


July 4th : I mailed R.I.EU that I'm still waiting.
They answered the same day that they thought Egalaxy was in contact with me. On the same mail (CC) urged Egalaxy to contact me and solve the issue once and for all (didn't say how).

Didn't hear from them or Egalaxy for the next 8 days.

July 12th : Again I mailed them that no one reached me. I also wrote that their customer service is a joke and that they (R.I.EU) should have solved the issue by themselves and then deal with the --obvious by now-- incompetent official dealer and their service (the case was 8 months old by the time!)

The R.I.EU's employee (always the same) answered the same day in an offended way (!) that they and Egalaxy have a great partnership. He also wrote that he personally contacted Mr. ....... (owner or manager I guess) and he told him things that I had concealed. Like that I was using a loan camera Egalaxy loaned me and that I had never spoken with anyone from Athens before (meaning the two phone calls from Athens I guess)
He also wrote that I never said anything about Egalaxy's offer to keep the demo (how would I if nobody made the offer anyway? Didn't even contact let alone make an offer.)

Naturally I answered back same day quoting the mails in which I had actually written about the loan and the two phone calls. As for the offer I wrote I never got one and that I wouldn't have accepted anyway.

Then I asked the 3 questions I have talked about at the beginning of the thread and he answered the way I explained. He also wrote that he found the offer very generous and it would be the demo or I would have to pay for a new one.

I answered that I have no need for "favors" of that kind and that I wanted my camera back and return theirs.

He answered OK.

It took Egalaxy more than two weeks to send the camera from Athens to Larnaca (usually it takes less than 2 days for parcels to arrive)
I went there dropped the loan and picked mine which would not switch off from the switch any more. Also the buffering was painfully slooow and lastly it wouldn't save the last menu settings (naturally since it does that when it is switched of and not when someone pulls the battery out)

So Steve to answer your comment, yes my complaint was for Egalaxy till I expressed it to Ricoh and they also exhibited unacceptable behavior by wasting my time and basically suggesting me to keep the demo and "shut up".

In case you didn't figure it out, the issue by then was not the camera body itself but two companies disrespecting me and wasting my time. If a week after I got the camera for service the first time, somebody had called me and say that there was humidity in the body, I might had objected, the marketing claims would still be questionable but things would be different.

Aside from this, when a company outsources part of their service and sales to partners, these partners are supposed to keep up to company's standards and operate accordingly.
Whether Ricoh has low standards or doesn't inspect if their partners comply with them is Ricoh's fault and Ricoh's alone.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
Pentax/Ricoh are not the party responsable to see that the customer gets what he paid for.
EU rules state that the seller of the body is responsable to compensate the buyer of items that fail repeatedly while still under warranty.

In this case Egalaxy seems to have communicated directly with the buyer.
That does not relieve the seller from its responsability to compensate the buyer.
According to the EU law they don't, at least on first degree. They do have ethical responsibility to people who buy stuff with their name on though.
Especially after the seller's behavior was pointed out.

Chris
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
answer, athens, bad customer service, camera, consumer, credit, damage, demo, france, guarantee, k-3ii, months, pentax, pentax service, problem, product, questions, repair, reputation, service, test, time, warranty, weeks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Really unhappy with KEH customer service ZombieArmy General Talk 15 02-21-2018 01:56 AM
walmart.com customer service.. is this normal for stores to do this? mee General Talk 24 01-06-2017 09:37 AM
Open Customer Service requests kurtgamer01 Ask B&H Photo! 2 02-01-2016 09:48 AM
Night Space Odyssey Workingdog Post Your Photos! 3 07-17-2011 05:16 AM
Photo Odyssey 2011 - Guest Photographers - der_angsthase General Talk 3 04-21-2011 06:28 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:12 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top