[c_kamb]

My problems with Pentax started a year ago.

About ten months after I bought my Pentax K-3II, I had an incident in which the camera
presented uncontrollable rapid shooting which didn’t stop untill I removed the battery since
the switch didn’t work.
There were a couple of times that the camera “froze” prior to that, but I disregarded
the incidents, thinking that it was just a software glitch.

I took the camera to the local dealer in Larnaca/Cyprus (EGalaxy) and they sent it to Greece for service.

I think It was the end of October or the beginning of November. The camera came back around three
weeks later. Two days after, it presented the same problem. I recorded the incident
with my phone (video here) and took the camera back.

By the end of January and since there was no progress from the service center (their answer was
“they are looking into it” all the time,) they sent me another K-3II from Greece as a loan which was
apparently a demo. And I say apparently because it looked like it had a hard life with lots of dust
in the focusing screen and the mirror area. Anyway I was grateful to have it.


Two months later I received a call from Athens telling me that they couldn’t find the problem so
the camera was already sent to France for further investigation.

A month later they called and told me that in France they had found traces of humidity on a board (corrosion)
implying that the camera had taken water from outside but not saying it with certainty. That was like 4 months
after I had touched the camera for the last time.
I asked if they had seen any traces of “humidity” in Athens and he told me they didn’t. He asked me if I had
dropped the camera in the water and I told him definitely not. Last think he said was that they would ask for
replacement and see if France would approve one.


After I didn’t have any news from them for more than a month (it was June already), I sent an e-mail to
Ricoh in Japan describing my problem. They pushed my complaint to… you guessed it, France
and the aftersales department of Ricoh Imaging Europe.


From aftersales they sent me an e-mail asking me for the serial number in order to find the case.
I didn’t have it since the box was with the camera.

On June 16th (7 months after I delivered the camera for the 2nd time) they sent me an email from
aftermarket telling me that they had find fluid damage in the camera and since repairing was too
expensive they had sent it back to Athens as it was. He also told me that he mailed Athens about
it and was expecting an answer.

20 days later I was still waiting for an answer, so I mailed aftersales again asking for an answer.
They mailed back that someone from Athens should have contacted me already. He wrote
on the same mail (in a way like “George contact Chris now and resolve the case once and for all”)
to someone in Athens, to contact me and resolve the case immediately and CC the mail to Athens too.


What they were apparently doing was throwing the ball to each other about who would tell
me that the camera couldn't be fixed and that they considered me responsible for the
damage and wouldn’t cover it.
Nobody had said anything by then.


I naturally got annoyed after almost 8 months of this and texted him that they had the
worst customer service I had ever worked with and their delays and lack of efficiency were inexcusable.


His answer was that he contacted the manager in Athens who told him that I had their demo all this time
which I hadn’t told him (1st lie. I had written about it) and that they told him they had already proposed
me to keep the demo (2nd lie) and he thought that their offer was very “generous”.


I answered by rubbing to his face the part of the mail that I had written about the demo.
Then I told him that Athens hadn’t contacted me for 3 months and even if they did now,
I wouldn’t accept the demo anyway.


Lastly, I asked him 3 questions:


A. Why didn’t they see the corrosion in Athens after 3 months of looking for the problem?
B. Did they perform any kind of weatherproofing test to check if their gear actually delivers what they
advertise that it does?
C. How they were sure in France that the board corrosion came from me after the camera had traveled
from Cyprus to Athens , back to Cyprus then back to Athens and finally to France with the plastic mount
cover (no lens) for more than 3 months?


The answer I got was:

A. It took them so long because they were looking elsewhere in the camera.
B. They can’t perform any test because the system consists of the body
and a lens and that both have to be WR?? (Like they couldn’t make waterproof
flange for the mount and test the body.)
C. It’s not likely (exact words) because the parcels were not damaged.

After that I understood that any further waste of my time had no point and demanded my old camera
to be sent back (which again took them weeks) and gave back theirs.


Even though I knew that the case was burned and Ricoh’s customer service was totally useless, I opened
a case at the Consumer’s protection office (which has no legal authority in Cyprus anyway).
They called me 3 weeks ago and told me that Egalaxy didn’t answer them for weeks
and when they eventually did answer it was for another case (a lens I sent to fix decentering which took them “only” 2 months).


So they just played dumb and I finally accepted that a thousand Euro went down the drain.

Any thoughts?

[Jeff Lopez]

keep the demo and sensor clean at another reputable shop..By this time, Im pretty sure the local tech messed up the camera..

[clackers]

A sad story, C_kamb, and that it took so long makes it even worse!

Note that just like Canon or Nikon or Sony, no Pentax camera is or has ever been covered by warranty for water, mud or sand damage, even if it is more weather resistant than models from those brands. It's in 'black and white'.

If you shoot in the rain, for instance, you really have to know what you're doing.

[c_kamb]

A sad story, C_kamb, and that it took so long makes it even worse!

Note that just like Canon or Nikon or Sony, no Pentax camera is or has ever been covered by warranty for water, mud or sand damage, even if it is more weather resistant than models from those brands. It's in 'black and white'.

If you shoot in the rain, for instance, you really have to know what you're doing.

True but there is a conflict when you advertise you products using images depicting your cameras getting splashed by
a bucketload (other brands don't do that) and then say that if humidity is found in the camera, its the customer's fault de facto.

As for the delay, there is just not any excuse. They should replace the body just for that.

[Alex645]

No doubt a frustrating ordeal. The last time I went through an ordeal like what you explained, it was with a Nikon lens. The only difference is that they sent macro photos with a detailed explanation which helped their credibility. Here's my conclusion based on what you explained:

a) What caused the problem while it was in your possession? Corrosion from fluid damage or something else?
b) Based on the fact that Athens couldn't figure out what was wrong (incompetent), they had to send it France. Because the French claims to have identified the cause and the problem, at this point it's their word (liquid damage) vs. yours (you didn't do it). The weather-sealing is not water proofing, and there are no guarantees regarding AW or WR gear.
c) I would have kept their demo if I knew they wouldn't fix my camera under warranty. But at this point, your best bet is just to get your camera repaired by anyone other than Athens.

Did you buy the camera new with a credit card? Often, credit cards will have consumer goods extended warranties which include "no questions asked" whether the goods are stolen, dropped, or lost. Good luck with the Consumer Protection Office. Persist but don't have high expectations.

[pentaxfall]

You must be a very patient person to deal with this. I also like the questions that posed.

After reading post like this and also the posts about 'bad copy' lenses, I am willing to pay 100$ extra for them to test before shipping. I have worked in Manufacturing Testing team for a consumer electronics product. I am aware of the tests that devices went through. Components that we had to test were many, price was way less. We did that because reputation was at stake.

[c_kamb]

No doubt a frustrating ordeal. The last time I went through an ordeal like what you explained, it was with a Nikon lens. The only difference is that they sent macro photos with a detailed explanation which helped their credibility. Here's my conclusion based on what you explained:

a) What caused the problem while it was in your possession? Corrosion from fluid damage or something else?
b) Based on the fact that Athens couldn't figure out what was wrong (incompetent), they had to send it France. Because the French claims to have identified the cause and the problem, at this point it's their word (liquid damage) vs. yours (you didn't do it). The weather-sealing is not water proofing, and there are no guarantees regarding AW or WR gear.
c) I would have kept their demo if I knew they wouldn't fix my camera under warranty. But at this point, your best bet is just to get your camera repaired by anyone other than Athens.

Did you buy the camera new with a credit card? Often, credit cards will have consumer goods extended warranties which include "no questions asked" whether the goods are stolen, dropped, or lost. Good luck with the Consumer Protection Office. Persist but don't have high expectations.

a) I wouldn't know. I have read of other cases with crazy shutters and dead on/off switches and they were replaced.
b) I know there are no guarantees but your product has to deliver what you imply that it does.
There is a reason that they don't have an IP rating and lets be honest, it is a shady one.
c) I still wouldn't keep it on principle.

I bought it cash.
In any case there is no excuse for not resolving the issue in less than a month. Even if their answer would have been the same.

---------- Post added 12-09-17 at 05:19 PM ----------

You must be a very patient person to deal with this. I also like the questions that posed.

After reading post like this and also the posts about 'bad copy' lenses, I am willing to pay 100$ extra for them to test before shipping. I have worked in Manufacturing Testing team for a consumer electronics product. I am aware of the tests that devices went through. Components that we had to test were many, price was way less. We did that because reputation was at stake.

Yes, I can be very persistent especially when a corporation is taking my money
and then disrespects me about something that costs them peanuts.
I'm not sure that Ricoh is worried about Pentax's reputation.

[jpzk]

Suggestion (perhaps futile): send all documentation to Ricoh/Pentax at their Head Office (Japan ?) .
Demand a new replacement ... Who knows? This might work?
You've nothing to loose by trying.

Cheers!

[Alex645]

I know there are no guarantees but your product has to deliver what you imply that it does.

I agree with you that it SHOULD, but in advertising, the goal is sales and the facts often get stretched.

Look at all the slim and athletic body types in beer commercials or cars driving on the beach splashing salt water everywhere. That would imply if you drink beer, you will not gain weight or that you can drive the car through salt water on the beach. Nothing is further than the truth and all the idiots on youtube burying Pentax cameras in dirt and then rinsing it off in the sink....those cameras must be rented or loaned.

[pathdoc]

Heie's weren't.

[digitaleagle12]

Your warranty issue was more than a nightmare and no consumer should ever have to go through what you went through. I would copy what you wrote in this thread and send it to Ricoh in Japan. Demand that they make this right or take legal action against them. Send it to them where they have to sign for it and send you the proof that it was received.

I'm not sure what the laws are in Europe, but in the USA you would have every right to take this case to Small Claims Court. This should be a giant embarrassment to Ricoh as a Company and someone should be held accountable for this.

You have been more than patient and you have done everything by the book. You are the victim here and you should not give up on this. I would call Ricoh in Japan and keep escalating this until you get to someone high enough in management that will make this right for you.

I'm sorry to hear you have had such a bad experience. Based on this, I may think twice about ever buying their products again.

Good luck and don't give up. If you give up, the incompetents win.

[mee]

8 months of them playing hot potato!!!!! wow.

They should have just replaced it or repaired free for the unreasonable, 8 month delay alone. I'd take some time away.. maybe a nights rest.. cool down (emotionally, if angry) and then write out what transpired with dates, email proof, and such in a shorter message then share that with Ricoh Imaging Corporate. This pass the buck is not acceptable in my view.

I had a back and forth repair issue years ago with Pentax repair here in the U.S. and corporate was really interested in communicating with me and resolving the issues (which they did). Ricoh Imaging Europe (NOT the sales department) might help if communicated to effectively.. only after trying that would I go with RI Japan..

That said before you do anything make sure you have your ducks in a row.. documentation, documentation, documentation.

Still 3 months without finding any corrosion and then a lame excuse that they were looking elsewhere in the body and didn't see it... 3 months of searching? That's incredible. It isn't the Grand Canyon.. it shouldn't take 3 months. And it most definitely doesn't take 8 months!!

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

B. Did they perform any kind of weatherproofing test to check if their gear actually delivers what they
advertise that it does?

Your problem is that pentax does not guarantee how weather resistant the body is, Now if pentax guaranteed how wr the body was then I would take it more serious . To me the cameras seals act as a secondary barrier to stopping water damage ( this applies to all the brands I use) the primary is to keep water from reaching the camera in the first place by other means.

While some have no reservations with washing the camera off under running water I would limit the times that water hit the camera with any force or impact.

With other equipment that I use other than photography if there is any advertisement to the performance in adverse conditions they usually require the user take in the equipment for regularly scheduled maintenance where they clean and replace the seals back to the factory standards. Even then sometimes they try and find a way that you voided the warranty.

[stevebrot]

Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

Your best option, in my opinion, would be to accept the loaner that has been in your possession for almost a year. I am amazed that they did that for you. I believe that is a first for this site. Alternatively, you may want to see what consumer protection is provided by the government in Cyprus or the EU.

As noted above, when water or evidence of corrosion is found inside the camera, the assumption is abuse, regardless of marketing thrust or the examples of other users. This is assumption is true for all camera makers and is not warrantied by any.

In regards to this site...It may not be obvious, but the Pentax Forums Web site has no official or unofficial relationship with Ricoh Imaging or the Pentax brand. Ricoh/Pentax does not monitor posts here and complaints registered here about post-purchase customer service get no further than the eyes of those who happen to read this thread. If Ricoh is responsive to your request, that would be very good. Let's hope you are happy in the end.


Steve

[stevebrot]

With other equipment that I use other than photography if there is any advertisement to the performance in adverse conditions they usually require the user take in the equipment for regularly scheduled maintenance where they clean and replace the seals back to the factory standards. Even then sometimes they try and find a way that you voided the warranty.

When I read this, my thoughts went immediately to products such as Pelican equipment cases. Despite their marketing and sterling reputation, the warranty terms are not particularly generous. The covers for personal electronics in particular are explicit that they resist dust/moisture with no redress to the consumer should they fail.


Steve