Corrupt Images: Any last suggestions before I send the K1 in for repairs?

**lazarustx** · 09-27-2018, 08:59 PM

Hmmmm....OK. Nothing conclusive. I took 250 images today with camera set to write RAW files to both Slot 1 and Slot 2. No corrupt images. I'll continue my testing over the next few days. Thanks for everyone's awesome ideas. Very helpful.

I'm curious about the process for displaying an image in LR. As I understand it, a jpg version of the image is stored within the DNG. This JPG is what is used on my camera display when I cycle through my images, correct?

So the thought here is that if the camera NEVER shows the strange behavior, then I can rule out the camera being the problem. Is that correct?

Thanks!
Rodney

stevebrot · 09-28-2018, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by lazarustx

I'm curious about the process for displaying an image in LR. As I understand it, a jpg version of the image is stored within the DNG. This JPG is what is used on my camera display when I cycle through my images, correct?

What LR does depends on how it is configured. I don't remember the default, but mine is configured to do initial thumbnail previews from the embedded JPEGs and to generate permanent, catalog-resident thumbnails as a background operation from the RAW. Single image views are always based on conversion from the RAW. The easiest way to confirm the LR behavior is to set custom image to monochrome. The embedded JPEGs will be black and white while the LR-generated thumbnails will be in color.

Steve

**lazarustx** · 10-02-2018, 11:06 PM

Hmmm...One image on the latest import shows as bad in LR. If I use the Pentax Digital Camera Utility and extract the JPG from that raw image, the JPG looks good.

Beyond Compare says that the following copies of that image: The RAW from Slot 1, the RAW From Slot 2 ( I'm writing to both cards), the LR Imported Image in my Library, and the copy LR made on import all seem to be identical.

Its late, I'm probably missing something, but anything you guys have to offer up would be greatly appreciated.

victormeldrew · 10-03-2018, 03:16 AM - **1 Like**

Everything you have seen and reported so far suggests the problem is isolated to LR.

There are a few possibilities as to why. The first and easiest thing to try is to reinstall LR, then reinstall your graphics drivers, then do a chkdsk on the drive you are using (or equivalent if you're using iOS)

**frankoz** · 10-03-2018, 04:05 AM - **1 Like**

Folks, I agree that it software based, but I have experienced the same problem in Capture One and Rawtherapee. It has also been the same on Windows 8.1 ans and 10 as well as Linux Mint. Whether it is driver based is a question.

**Bob 256** · 10-03-2018, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by lazarustx

Hmmm...One image on the latest import shows as bad in LR. If I use the Pentax Digital Camera Utility and extract the JPG from that raw image, the JPG looks good.

Beyond Compare says that the following copies of that image: The RAW from Slot 1, the RAW From Slot 2 ( I'm writing to both cards), the LR Imported Image in my Library, and the copy LR made on import all seem to be identical. .............

Are you saying that the problem is consistent with this image regardless of which card you use to import it? Does it happen every time you import that particular image?

If it's consistent (every time you import that one image off a card), you have a good tool to use to isolate the cause (which now appears to be on the computer side of things). Does the issue remain if you copy the image off the card onto your hard drive and then use that imported file? Do you have the option of viewing the image on another computer?

**lazarustx** · 10-03-2018, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Bob 256

Are you saying that the problem is consistent with this image regardless of which card you use to import it? Does it happen every time you import that particular image?

If it's consistent (every time you import that one image off a card), you have a good tool to use to isolate the cause (which now appears to be on the computer side of things).

- The image was written to SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 via the camera drive settings.
- These images where copied to their own subdirectory and imported.

- On import, LR makes a backup copy of the RAW image - These files also show the problem.

I see the issue in everyone of these imported images . NOTE: I must rename the file in order for the LR to import a "different" image.
- In a exported JPG image from within LR, the resultant JPG image also has the corruption.

However, if I view the RAW Image from the Digital Camera Utility v5, I don't see the corruption.
Also, if I export a JPG from this image using the Digital Camera Utility, the JPG looks fine.

So the problem is not specific to either SLOT but happens to affect the files on both Slots. However, this is only true if LR is used. The DCU software provided by Pentax doesn't show the problem.

Does the issue remain if you copy the image off the card onto your hard drive and then use that imported file? Do you have the option of viewing the image on another computer?

- Great idea. I'll give this a try when I get home.

Thanks for your help!

**lazarustx** · 10-05-2018, 08:53 AM

I created a new LR Catalog and reimported this images from an image that the Digital Camera Utility had no problems with. The corruption is definitely following the image although:
1. I never see a corrupt image on the Camera's display
2. The Digital Camera Utility doesn't show the error when viewed on screen or I export a JPG.

I've decided to shoot PEF for the next few outings. I don't know enough about the LR import process to know if PEF vs DNG will make a difference. Can't hurt to try.

Any other suggestions?
I think I'm going to do the following for testing purposes:
1. Slot 1 Images - Copy to Drive c:\tempimport and then import via LR CC on my Windows PC
2. Slot 2 images - Import via SD Card Reader into LR Mobile into its own Collection.
3. Slot 2 Images - Review with Digital Camera Utility to check for corruption.

Any thoughts on using a tethered shooting session? See if bypassing the SD CARD write process still produces a corrupt file?

Any other recommendations? The most recent sent of tests results leaves me with more and more of a hardware feeling, but if I send the camera in, I'm not sure they'd be able to successfully debug the problem either being that its so inconsistent.

Again, thanks guys! If I can nail down the recreate process, I'll be better suited to having either LR look at the issue or Pentax support/repair folks.

Regards,
Rodney

**lazarustx** · 10-09-2018, 02:30 PM

OK. Well, I've ruled out a few things, but no smoking gun yet. Maybe you guys have some extra steps for me to try in order to rule things out...
Here's what I've observed
A. I see the issue even with a in-camera format of the SD Cards before capturing images.

B. The problem is recreatable when do a import via my IPAD Air Pro using the Lightning SD Card Reader. This means my laptop/cable/USB Card reader is not the issue.
C. So lets rule out LR...I used the Digital Camera Utility to open the corrupt image. Image looks fine until I to to SAVE AS. Then the corruption appears in the image.
D. I know some of you said that i can't be an in-camera issue if I don't see the problem in my LCD when I capture/playback the images....

Sorry that I've been pounding on this dead horse, but I can't figure out a way to determine if this is really a hardware issue. I'm not sure that Precision will be able to recreate the problem once I do send it in...

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Regards,
Rodney

**Bob 256** · 10-09-2018, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by lazarustx

.................
C. So lets rule out LR...I used the Digital Camera Utility to open the corrupt image. Image looks fine until I to to SAVE AS. Then the corruption appears in the image...........................

Let me get this straight. When you open the image with DCU it looks fine, but when you do a SAVE AS, the saved image shows up corrupted? Or does this corrupt the image you're looking at? Is the corruption now visible using DCU?

Try this. Using an image that shows corruption, copy the original file using your computer (COPY - PASTE) to a different folder. Then open the original and the copy and see if the corruption follows the copy. There might not be actual "corruption" in the photo but something in the file code that's causing the software to corrupt a NEW image which has been saved by the software?? That, again would fall back to the software rather than the camera unless the camera is doing something really strange and only with some images.

**lazarustx** · 10-09-2018, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Bob 256

Let me get this straight. When you open the image with DCU it looks fine, but when you do a SAVE AS, the saved image shows up corrupted? Or does this corrupt the image you're looking at? Is the corruption now visible using DCU?
Try this. Using an image that shows corruption, copy the original file using your computer (COPY - PASTE) to a different folder. Then open the original and the copy and see if the corruption follows the copy. There might not be actual "corruption" in the photo but something in the file code that's causing the software to corrupt a NEW image which has been saved by the software??

That, again would fall back to the software rather than the camera unless the camera is doing something really strange and only with some images.

Source A= SD Card
Source B=a folder on the HD #1 that has a copy of images from Source A using Windows Drag/Drop. I use this source to import LR images.
Source C=A folder on HD #2.

- Yes, when I open the image with DCU, it looks good until I go to Save As then I see the corruption.

- The DCU behavior is consistent across Source A, B, or C

**I only know of the corruption because LR imported a copy of the image from Source B or via an Import via the IPAD.

**The problem does NOT happen on all images. Only a few select photos will have this issue.

MarkJerling · 10-09-2018, 05:12 PM

Would you like to e-mail me the original raw file? I'll have a look to see what happens to it in LR on my machine.
PM me and I'll reply with my e-mail address.

**lazarustx** · 10-09-2018, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

What LR does depends on how it is configured. I don't remember the default, but mine is configured to do initial thumbnail previews from the embedded JPEGs and to generate permanent, catalog-resident thumbnails as a background operation from the RAW. Single image views are always based on conversion from the RAW. The easiest way to confirm the LR behavior is to set custom image to monochrome. The embedded JPEGs will be black and white while the LR-generated thumbnails will be in color.

Steve

Hey Steve,

I've been meaning to follow up on your suggestion. I set the system to create DNG+JPG...

Here's what I see using your suggestion of setting the monochrome filter.

LR Color thumbnail has corruption

JPG (monochrome) image is clean...
DNG (color) has the corruption.

I do not see the corruption on my LCD though....
REgards,
Rodney

MarkJerling · 10-11-2018, 03:23 PM - **1 Like**

Seems like it may be camera related as Rodney says this happens with different memory cards.
Here's an image he sent me - straight out of camera - processed in my Lightroom.

**lazarustx** · 10-11-2018, 09:02 PM

Thanks Mark for helping me out.

This is a bit frustrating since even the extended warranty folks agree that I'm going to have to find a solid recreate and talk to the Pentax support folks before they'll consider any type of repairs.
I'll see what I can do about the recreate, but its random nature might have me pulling my hair out...

Regards,
Rodney

10-03-2018, 04:05 AM - 1 Like	#20
frankoz Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Glenelg North, South Australia Posts: 127	Corrupt Images: Any last suggestions before I send the K1 in for repairs? Folks, I agree that it software based, but I have experienced the same problem in Capture One and Rawtherapee. It has also been the same on Windows 8.1 ans and 10 as well as Linux Mint. Whether it is driver based is a question.

10-09-2018, 04:32 PM	#26
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bob 256 Let me get this straight. When you open the image with DCU it looks fine, but when you do a SAVE AS, the saved image shows up corrupted? Or does this corrupt the image you're looking at? Is the corruption now visible using DCU? Try this. Using an image that shows corruption, copy the original file using your computer (COPY - PASTE) to a different folder. Then open the original and the copy and see if the corruption follows the copy. There might not be actual "corruption" in the photo but something in the file code that's causing the software to corrupt a NEW image which has been saved by the software?? That, again would fall back to the software rather than the camera unless the camera is doing something really strange and only with some images. Source A= SD Card Source B=a folder on the HD #1 that has a copy of images from Source A using Windows Drag/Drop. I use this source to import LR images. Source C=A folder on HD #2. - Yes, when I open the image with DCU, it looks good until I go to Save As then I see the corruption. - The DCU behavior is consistent across Source A, B, or C I only know of the corruption because LR imported a copy of the image from Source B or via an Import via the IPAD. The problem does NOT happen on all images. Only a few select photos will have this issue. Attached Images Last edited by lazarustx; 10-09-2018 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Incorrect Quote formatting

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09-27-2018, 08:59 PM	#16
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Hmmmm....OK. Nothing conclusive. I took 250 images today with camera set to write RAW files to both Slot 1 and Slot 2. No corrupt images. I'll continue my testing over the next few days. Thanks for everyone's awesome ideas. Very helpful. I'm curious about the process for displaying an image in LR. As I understand it, a jpg version of the image is stored within the DNG. This JPG is what is used on my camera display when I cycle through my images, correct? So the thought here is that if the camera NEVER shows the strange behavior, then I can rule out the camera being the problem. Is that correct? Thanks! Rodney

09-28-2018, 08:48 AM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by lazarustx I'm curious about the process for displaying an image in LR. As I understand it, a jpg version of the image is stored within the DNG. This JPG is what is used on my camera display when I cycle through my images, correct? What LR does depends on how it is configured. I don't remember the default, but mine is configured to do initial thumbnail previews from the embedded JPEGs and to generate permanent, catalog-resident thumbnails as a background operation from the RAW. Single image views are always based on conversion from the RAW. The easiest way to confirm the LR behavior is to set custom image to monochrome. The embedded JPEGs will be black and white while the LR-generated thumbnails will be in color. Steve

10-02-2018, 11:06 PM	#18
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Hmmm...One image on the latest import shows as bad in LR. If I use the Pentax Digital Camera Utility and extract the JPG from that raw image, the JPG looks good. Beyond Compare says that the following copies of that image: The RAW from Slot 1, the RAW From Slot 2 ( I'm writing to both cards), the LR Imported Image in my Library, and the copy LR made on import all seem to be identical. Its late, I'm probably missing something, but anything you guys have to offer up would be greatly appreciated.

10-03-2018, 03:16 AM - 1 Like	#19
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Everything you have seen and reported so far suggests the problem is isolated to LR. There are a few possibilities as to why. The first and easiest thing to try is to reinstall LR, then reinstall your graphics drivers, then do a chkdsk on the drive you are using (or equivalent if you're using iOS)

10-03-2018, 08:06 AM	#21
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by lazarustx Hmmm...One image on the latest import shows as bad in LR. If I use the Pentax Digital Camera Utility and extract the JPG from that raw image, the JPG looks good. Beyond Compare says that the following copies of that image: The RAW from Slot 1, the RAW From Slot 2 ( I'm writing to both cards), the LR Imported Image in my Library, and the copy LR made on import all seem to be identical. ............. Are you saying that the problem is consistent with this image regardless of which card you use to import it? Does it happen every time you import that particular image? If it's consistent (every time you import that one image off a card), you have a good tool to use to isolate the cause (which now appears to be on the computer side of things). Does the issue remain if you copy the image off the card onto your hard drive and then use that imported file? Do you have the option of viewing the image on another computer?

10-03-2018, 12:10 PM	#22
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bob 256 Are you saying that the problem is consistent with this image regardless of which card you use to import it? Does it happen every time you import that particular image? If it's consistent (every time you import that one image off a card), you have a good tool to use to isolate the cause (which now appears to be on the computer side of things). - The image was written to SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 via the camera drive settings. - These images where copied to their own subdirectory and imported. - On import, LR makes a backup copy of the RAW image - These files also show the problem. I see the issue in everyone of these imported images . NOTE: I must rename the file in order for the LR to import a "different" image. - In a exported JPG image from within LR, the resultant JPG image also has the corruption. However, if I view the RAW Image from the Digital Camera Utility v5, I don't see the corruption. Also, if I export a JPG from this image using the Digital Camera Utility, the JPG looks fine. So the problem is not specific to either SLOT but happens to affect the files on both Slots. However, this is only true if LR is used. The DCU software provided by Pentax doesn't show the problem. Does the issue remain if you copy the image off the card onto your hard drive and then use that imported file? Do you have the option of viewing the image on another computer? - Great idea. I'll give this a try when I get home. Thanks for your help!

10-05-2018, 08:53 AM	#23
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	I created a new LR Catalog and reimported this images from an image that the Digital Camera Utility had no problems with. The corruption is definitely following the image although: 1. I never see a corrupt image on the Camera's display 2. The Digital Camera Utility doesn't show the error when viewed on screen or I export a JPG. I've decided to shoot PEF for the next few outings. I don't know enough about the LR import process to know if PEF vs DNG will make a difference. Can't hurt to try. Any other suggestions? I think I'm going to do the following for testing purposes: 1. Slot 1 Images - Copy to Drive c:\tempimport and then import via LR CC on my Windows PC 2. Slot 2 images - Import via SD Card Reader into LR Mobile into its own Collection. 3. Slot 2 Images - Review with Digital Camera Utility to check for corruption. Any thoughts on using a tethered shooting session? See if bypassing the SD CARD write process still produces a corrupt file? Any other recommendations? The most recent sent of tests results leaves me with more and more of a hardware feeling, but if I send the camera in, I'm not sure they'd be able to successfully debug the problem either being that its so inconsistent. Again, thanks guys! If I can nail down the recreate process, I'll be better suited to having either LR look at the issue or Pentax support/repair folks. Regards, Rodney

10-09-2018, 02:30 PM	#24
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	OK. Well, I've ruled out a few things, but no smoking gun yet. Maybe you guys have some extra steps for me to try in order to rule things out... Here's what I've observed A. I see the issue even with a in-camera format of the SD Cards before capturing images. B. The problem is recreatable when do a import via my IPAD Air Pro using the Lightning SD Card Reader. This means my laptop/cable/USB Card reader is not the issue. C. So lets rule out LR...I used the Digital Camera Utility to open the corrupt image. Image looks fine until I to to SAVE AS. Then the corruption appears in the image. D. I know some of you said that i can't be an in-camera issue if I don't see the problem in my LCD when I capture/playback the images.... Sorry that I've been pounding on this dead horse, but I can't figure out a way to determine if this is really a hardware issue. I'm not sure that Precision will be able to recreate the problem once I do send it in... Any thoughts would be appreciated. Regards, Rodney

10-09-2018, 03:30 PM	#25
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by lazarustx ................. C. So lets rule out LR...I used the Digital Camera Utility to open the corrupt image. Image looks fine until I to to SAVE AS. Then the corruption appears in the image........................... Let me get this straight. When you open the image with DCU it looks fine, but when you do a SAVE AS, the saved image shows up corrupted? Or does this corrupt the image you're looking at? Is the corruption now visible using DCU? Try this. Using an image that shows corruption, copy the original file using your computer (COPY - PASTE) to a different folder. Then open the original and the copy and see if the corruption follows the copy. There might not be actual "corruption" in the photo but something in the file code that's causing the software to corrupt a NEW image which has been saved by the software?? That, again would fall back to the software rather than the camera unless the camera is doing something really strange and only with some images.

10-09-2018, 05:12 PM	#27
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,402	Would you like to e-mail me the original raw file? I'll have a look to see what happens to it in LR on my machine. PM me and I'll reply with my e-mail address.

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10-09-2018, 05:50 PM	#28
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot What LR does depends on how it is configured. I don't remember the default, but mine is configured to do initial thumbnail previews from the embedded JPEGs and to generate permanent, catalog-resident thumbnails as a background operation from the RAW. Single image views are always based on conversion from the RAW. The easiest way to confirm the LR behavior is to set custom image to monochrome. The embedded JPEGs will be black and white while the LR-generated thumbnails will be in color. Steve Hey Steve, I've been meaning to follow up on your suggestion. I set the system to create DNG+JPG... Here's what I see using your suggestion of setting the monochrome filter. LR Color thumbnail has corruption JPG (monochrome) image is clean... DNG (color) has the corruption. I do not see the corruption on my LCD though.... REgards, Rodney

10-11-2018, 09:02 PM	#30
lazarustx Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin Tx Posts: 209 Original Poster	Thanks Mark for helping me out. This is a bit frustrating since even the extended warranty folks agree that I'm going to have to find a solid recreate and talk to the Pentax support folks before they'll consider any type of repairs. I'll see what I can do about the recreate, but its random nature might have me pulling my hair out... Regards, Rodney