Question about KEH warranty... am I going crazy?

ZombieArmy · 11-16-2018, 06:27 PM

I have a Bower (samyang) 14mm I bought from KEH still within the warranty period. This lens has some significant decentering in the bottom left corner so I've contacted them and they simply refuse to do a cash return, saying that they will only attempt to repair the lens. I've had this lens in for repair once already and I do not want to have a lens out of commission for weeks just to MAYBE fix this problem. This lens was sold to me "like new".

The weird thing is this isn't my first time having to go through KEH warranty. I've had a Tamron 17-50 and a couple other lenses not be quite up to what they've labeled, and all those times they have offered me either a repair OR a return, and this was months into ownership. So I need to know if I'm going crazy, is this your experience with KEH as well or did they only give you the repair ultimatum for things after 14 days?

Last edited by ZombieArmy; 11-16-2018 at 06:48 PM.

**Pentax Syntax** · 11-16-2018, 06:58 PM

Generally I have found KEH to be fair and responsive. Not sure what may be going on in this instance. If it was serviced once and that did not correct the decentering I am not sure what they could do a second time.

Not a Number · 11-16-2018, 07:21 PM - **1 Like**

If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar.

Docrwm · 11-16-2018, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar.

ZombieArmy · 11-16-2018, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar.

Not exactly my fault they can't check their products correctly. I've had more overall success with random people on ebay.

Docrwm · 11-16-2018, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

Not exactly my fault they can't check their products correctly. I've had more overall success with random people on ebay.

I've always received items that were better than they were rated by KEH. Guess I'm lucky.

ZombieArmy · 11-16-2018, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

I've always received items that were better than they were rated by KEH. Guess I'm lucky.

I think it's inevitable given how high volume KEH is. You're either going to score high or low.

In my case I'm probably just unlucky, I've certainly gotten good things from KEH like my M lenses or my 40xs.

**kiwi_jono** · 11-16-2018, 09:17 PM

Well certainly decentering is common for the Samyang 14mm. Mine was badly decentered and eventually I got a credit from the supplier (Samyang said it was in spec but it was completely useless for landscape use, even stopped down and would be a lot worse if you were in to astro photography). As I can't find a local supplier that will allow me to return a copy for replacement if they are badly decentered, I have given up trying to get one.
I'm not very fussy either, as this is the first lens I just ever had to return with a problem. Generally I don't expect lenses to be perfect but I do expect them to be fit for purpose.

DeadJohn · 11-16-2018, 09:50 PM

My experience with used lens dealers is that they grade things based on a relatively quick check. They look for chipped glass, fungus, etc. They move focus and zoom rings to check for smoothness. They might take a few test photos, but they do not pixel peep.

KEH's website says returns within 14 days, after that repair warranty applies. If they already tried repair, though, and can't fix it, then I feel that they should issue a refund or exchange, unless they can prove the problem was your fault (such as dropping the lens).

Wasp · 11-17-2018, 03:41 AM

To be fair to all involved, the Samyang ultra wides are known to have decentring issues. Even when brand new, it happens. I would press for an exchange, as a refund seems to be off the table.

Not a Number · 11-17-2018, 05:33 AM - **1 Like**

A bad or unlucky customer pretty much amounts to the same thing to a business if you become more trouble than it's worth.

There have been other complaints about KEH over-rating the condition so you are not alone in that respect.

The only time I returned something to KEH was a Minolta focusing rail that was missing a part that frequently gets lost. Otherwise it had unexpected extras like the original box and paper work. Everything else I've bought from them was actually under-rated (IMO) condition-wise. The returned rail was better than rated too.

---------- Post added 11-17-18 at 04:41 AM ----------

Originally posted by Wasp

To be fair to all involved, the Samyang ultra wides are known to have decentring issues. Even when brand new, it happens. I would press for an exchange, as a refund seems to be off the table.

As I recall one or two PF members said they had to go through two or three returns (new purchase) before they got a good copy.

So if they come from the factory de-centered then the "like new" rating could be accurate

**Wingincamera** · 11-17-2018, 04:27 PM

I've only had one experience buying a lens from KEH and it was positive. I also purchased the Bower (Samyang) 14mm, but purchased it from B&H. My first copy was de-centered and I returned it for a second one which was good.

SSGGeezer · 11-17-2018, 06:29 PM

I returned one of the lenses I purchased from KEH and they were decent but did take a while to process my card refund, but I think that is due to lack of personnel. But the decentering is why I would not even consider one that is for sale here since it says no returns and the decentering issue is well established on the UWA Samyangs.

stevebrot · 11-19-2018, 07:45 AM

I would expect them to honor a return request (item not as described) for condition issues, but manufacturing defect on a used lens is another matter. If they are willing and able to correct the problem under warranty, that would be super cool and worth considering IMHO.

Steve

ZombieArmy · 11-20-2018, 02:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

I would expect them to honor a return request (item not as described) for condition issues, but manufacturing defect on a used lens is another matter. If they are willing and able to correct the problem under warranty, that would be super cool and worth considering IMHO.

Steve

Yes I'm sending it in for the repair. The 4 week turnaround is a bit daunting but they did promise that if this does not fix the issue they will refund me.

11-16-2018, 06:27 PM	#1
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Question about KEH warranty... am I going crazy? I have a Bower (samyang) 14mm I bought from KEH still within the warranty period. This lens has some significant decentering in the bottom left corner so I've contacted them and they simply refuse to do a cash return, saying that they will only attempt to repair the lens. I've had this lens in for repair once already and I do not want to have a lens out of commission for weeks just to MAYBE fix this problem. This lens was sold to me "like new". The weird thing is this isn't my first time having to go through KEH warranty. I've had a Tamron 17-50 and a couple other lenses not be quite up to what they've labeled, and all those times they have offered me either a repair OR a return, and this was months into ownership. So I need to know if I'm going crazy, is this your experience with KEH as well or did they only give you the repair ultimatum for things after 14 days? Last edited by ZombieArmy; 11-16-2018 at 06:48 PM.

11-16-2018, 09:17 PM	#8
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	Well certainly decentering is common for the Samyang 14mm. Mine was badly decentered and eventually I got a credit from the supplier (Samyang said it was in spec but it was completely useless for landscape use, even stopped down and would be a lot worse if you were in to astro photography). As I can't find a local supplier that will allow me to return a copy for replacement if they are badly decentered, I have given up trying to get one. I'm not very fussy either, as this is the first lens I just ever had to return with a problem. Generally I don't expect lenses to be perfect but I do expect them to be fit for purpose. Last edited by kiwi_jono; 11-16-2018 at 09:23 PM.

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11-16-2018, 06:58 PM	#2
Pentax Syntax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 595	Generally I have found KEH to be fair and responsive. Not sure what may be going on in this instance. If it was serviced once and that did not correct the decentering I am not sure what they could do a second time.

11-16-2018, 07:21 PM - 1 Like	#3
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar.

11-16-2018, 07:25 PM	#4
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Not a Number If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar.

11-16-2018, 07:50 PM	#5
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by Not a Number If your return to keeper ratio is high they might begin to classify you as a bad customer. This may be one way for them to discourage you from doing further business with them. Seems to be working. A lot of companies will do something similar. Not exactly my fault they can't check their products correctly. I've had more overall success with random people on ebay.

11-16-2018, 08:05 PM	#6
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by ZombieArmy Not exactly my fault they can't check their products correctly. I've had more overall success with random people on ebay. I've always received items that were better than they were rated by KEH. Guess I'm lucky.

11-16-2018, 08:06 PM	#7
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by Docrwm I've always received items that were better than they were rated by KEH. Guess I'm lucky. I think it's inevitable given how high volume KEH is. You're either going to score high or low. In my case I'm probably just unlucky, I've certainly gotten good things from KEH like my M lenses or my 40xs.

11-16-2018, 09:50 PM	#9
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	My experience with used lens dealers is that they grade things based on a relatively quick check. They look for chipped glass, fungus, etc. They move focus and zoom rings to check for smoothness. They might take a few test photos, but they do not pixel peep. KEH's website says returns within 14 days, after that repair warranty applies. If they already tried repair, though, and can't fix it, then I feel that they should issue a refund or exchange, unless they can prove the problem was your fault (such as dropping the lens).

11-17-2018, 03:41 AM	#10
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	To be fair to all involved, the Samyang ultra wides are known to have decentring issues. Even when brand new, it happens. I would press for an exchange, as a refund seems to be off the table.

11-17-2018, 05:33 AM - 1 Like	#11
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	A bad or unlucky customer pretty much amounts to the same thing to a business if you become more trouble than it's worth. There have been other complaints about KEH over-rating the condition so you are not alone in that respect. The only time I returned something to KEH was a Minolta focusing rail that was missing a part that frequently gets lost. Otherwise it had unexpected extras like the original box and paper work. Everything else I've bought from them was actually under-rated (IMO) condition-wise. The returned rail was better than rated too. ---------- Post added 11-17-18 at 04:41 AM ---------- Originally posted by Wasp To be fair to all involved, the Samyang ultra wides are known to have decentring issues. Even when brand new, it happens. I would press for an exchange, as a refund seems to be off the table. As I recall one or two PF members said they had to go through two or three returns (new purchase) before they got a good copy. So if they come from the factory de-centered then the "like new" rating could be accurate

11-17-2018, 04:27 PM	#12
Wingincamera Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pine Haven, Wyoming Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,182	I've only had one experience buying a lens from KEH and it was positive. I also purchased the Bower (Samyang) 14mm, but purchased it from B&H. My first copy was de-centered and I returned it for a second one which was good.

11-17-2018, 06:29 PM	#13
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	I returned one of the lenses I purchased from KEH and they were decent but did take a while to process my card refund, but I think that is due to lack of personnel. But the decentering is why I would not even consider one that is for sale here since it says no returns and the decentering issue is well established on the UWA Samyangs.

11-19-2018, 07:45 AM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I would expect them to honor a return request (item not as described) for condition issues, but manufacturing defect on a used lens is another matter. If they are willing and able to correct the problem under warranty, that would be super cool and worth considering IMHO. Steve

11-20-2018, 02:00 AM - 1 Like	#15
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I would expect them to honor a return request (item not as described) for condition issues, but manufacturing defect on a used lens is another matter. If they are willing and able to correct the problem under warranty, that would be super cool and worth considering IMHO. Steve Yes I'm sending it in for the repair. The 4 week turnaround is a bit daunting but they did promise that if this does not fix the issue they will refund me.