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12-03-2018, 06:10 AM - 3 Likes   #46
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To summarise:

The Pentax warranty has expired.

As it is over 6 months since he bought it and I am sure doesn't want to get into having to "prove" the fault was a manufacturing defect from the outset, I suggest relying on the 2015 Consumer Rights Act is not going to help him.

So he is relying on the 2 year john lewis warranty that is provided free on most electrical goods. Under this he is entitled to a repair, or if not possible a replacement. If a replacement is not possible then an equivalent product or it's selling price will be offered.

John Lewis no longer stock Pentax. The repair situation is I am sure also complicated by the fact that the official Pentax repairers went out of business a few months back. So they have offered him his purchase price back.

As I see it he has these options :

1. Accept the refund of the purchase price

2. Suggest to John Lewis that they try harder to get the camera repaired through the new Pentax Official repairers (details of which I supplied earlier).

3. Ask JL to pay him with the "current selling price" of the nearest equivalent to the K50 which is I believe the K70 and can be had for £395, although not of course at John Lewis.

I would be interested to know how much you actually paid for the camera originally? If it is close to £395 then I suggest take the refund and get a new K70 from somewhere like SRS.

As I said earlier, JL are a well respected store and I am sure they will sort you out correctly if you plan to take approach 2 or 3. Taking the refund would be the quickest way for you to get a new camera.

12-04-2018, 12:41 PM - 1 Like   #47
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Quick update:

Pentax Official repairers have confirmed that i have a 2 year warranty with Pentax on top of the JL one, its not 1 year as others have said.


Still waiting on JL assessment report, but it appears they have not sent it to Pentax for assessment, i am assuming they have their own in house repairers? Im pushing for them to send it to Pentax to get fixed.
12-04-2018, 12:51 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by chutzpah Quote
Quick update:

Pentax Official repairers have confirmed that i have a 2 year warranty with Pentax on top of the JL one, its not 1 year as others have said.


Still waiting on JL assessment report, but it appears they have not sent it to Pentax for assessment, i am assuming they have their own in house repairers? Im pushing for them to send it to Pentax to get fixed.
That's great news - in which case, you're quite right to push for the repair Let us know how you get on?
12-04-2018, 01:02 PM   #49
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Will do!


its also handy in that we now have 'official' clarification on where UK customers stand compared to the rest of Europe.

12-04-2018, 04:56 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by chutzpah Quote
Pentax Official repairers have confirmed that i have a 2 year warranty with Pentax on top of the JL one, its not 1 year as others have said.
Yay! That is amazing news.


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12-10-2018, 05:12 AM   #51
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Lots of folks make the mistake of thinking that a warranty is a period of time in which you can get a defective product fixed or replaced. Wrong. A warranty is a promise, made at the time of sale, to the effect that the product conforms to standards, is good for certain functions, etc., (i.e., statements of fact) and it is essentially a contract between the purchaser and the seller - buying a pentax camera from a dealer does not create a contract between the purchaser and pentax. Manufacturers are now including "limited warranty" language in the paperwork inside the package because of a law passed in the United States called the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Enforcement Act. That law obviously only applies in the U.S. and its possessions and territories. It is possible for a seller to be on the hook because of the mfgr's. violation of its "shrink-wrap warranty", where the seller makes a statement of fact to the effect that the mfgr. will honor a warranty, because that constitutes a warranty on the part of the seller. Where the seller makes a statement of fact, directly or indirectly, to the effect that the product has no defects in manufacture and materials, then that seller is on the hook for the repair or replacement. Ordinarily, a person aggrieved by the failure of a seller to honor its warranty can go purchase replacement product at whatever terms are commercially available at the time, and that's the amount of damages that the seller's obligated to cough up.

Here's another thing - periods of time are only related to the remedies available for breach of the warranty. So if a mfgr. says, "two year limited warranty", that two years is the period of time in which they promise (the promise made at the time of sale which constitutes the real warranty) that they will fix or replace a defective product, i.e., a remedy for the breach. That limits them, not the consumer. The limitation on the consumer is a matter of the applicable statute of limitations - where I live, that's four years (measured from the sale, that day being day zero).

Of course, that language in the "shrink-wrap warranty" isn't enforceable everywhere, because (1) there's no "privity of contract" between the mfgr. and the consumer, and (2) the consumer had no way to know what that "limited warranty" said, what the terms and conditions were, at the time he coughed up his money for the product (no "meeting of the minds").

And yet another consideration: the concept of a contract was invented in 16th C. England, and has become an artifact of Western culture. There is no such history in other places, so Asian peoples lack that cultural component. Often, dealing in particular with people from Iran or Korea, one might come to some kind of agreement comprising a contract (in Western terms), put it in writing, signed, witnessed, and notarized. But then the Westerner will be surprised when his trading companion fails to honor the agreement. The logic that applies in those cultures goes something like this: "That contract was a statement of how I felt at that time, my promise was a reflection of my feeling at that time that I intended to do what I said I'd do; but obviously, I can make no statements about the future, or what will happen in the future, because the future does not exist; who knows, we may be dead tomorrow, and then what do our promises mean. No one owns the future, or even his future self, so predictions about future events create no obligation on my part. You must have known all that at the time, so I dealt with you fairly on the day we came to an agreement, because I was honest about my intentions at that time; but since then, I've changed my mind and decided to do something else (like, not pay you the money I owe you). That was then, this is now." Japan and HongKong are more likely to apply Western concepts of commercial law than other countries, particularly when dealing with larger more internationally-oriented companies. But even there, you're taking a risk, and you mustn't expect your local laws and culture to govern what people do who operate in places that are culturally and legally different. (Which is why in my case, I avoid doing business with people from Illinois, Massachussetts, California, and Maryland.)
12-10-2018, 02:16 PM   #52
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Im here to tell everyone here who claims that JL are literally the only upstanding retail organisation left in the UK are wrong - they have now doubled down on refusing to even give me the details of their 'assessment' which is illegal under GDPR ( let alone the warranty), they are refusing to look at any option or replacement or fixing.

So they 'claim' the camera cannot be fixed, then they claim its 'too expensive' then despite me telling them that Pentax have confirmed they need to send the camera to them they have refused to do so and refused to explain the fault ( which of course would help with Pentax deciding if its worth being sent)

'If we can't repair your item, we'll replace it with an item of equivalent specification. If no equivalent product is available, we'll either offer you the nearest equivalent specification or its selling price value , and we'll always do our best to make sure you're satisfied with the outcome'

None of the above mentions refusing to fix, or refusing to give details of the fault, its looking like they wont even release the camera to me. Pentax accredited fixers want to help but their hands are tied - pretty sure this is now sharp practice and i am NOT here for this type of treatment, that its JL and not some ratty little organisation is just the cherry on the cake.

Any suggestions welcome please - that does not include telling me to take the money offered which it turns out is actually a percentage of the original cost anyway - im running out of time to get this resolved

12-10-2018, 02:43 PM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by chutzpah Quote
Im here to tell everyone here who claims that JL are literally the only upstanding retail organisation left in the UK are wrong - they have now doubled down on refusing to even give me the details of their 'assessment' which is illegal under GDPR ( let alone the warranty), they are refusing to look at any option or replacement or fixing.

So they 'claim' the camera cannot be fixed, then they claim its 'too expensive' then despite me telling them that Pentax have confirmed they need to send the camera to them they have refused to do so and refused to explain the fault ( which of course would help with Pentax deciding if its worth being sent)

'If we can't repair your item, we'll replace it with an item of equivalent specification. If no equivalent product is available, we'll either offer you the nearest equivalent specification or its selling price value , and we'll always do our best to make sure you're satisfied with the outcome'

None of the above mentions refusing to fix, or refusing to give details of the fault, its looking like they wont even release the camera to me. Pentax accredited fixers want to help but their hands are tied - pretty sure this is now sharp practice and i am NOT here for this type of treatment, that its JL and not some ratty little organisation is just the cherry on the cake.

Any suggestions welcome please - that does not include telling me to take the money offered which it turns out is actually a percentage of the original cost anyway - im running out of time to get this resolved
I'm sorry to hear that

Given that you're in the UK (as am I), I think you have a few of options... One is to visit the Citizen's Advice Bureau with full details of your case, and ask their advice on legal recourse. Another is to take JL (and, if you paid by credit card, your credit card provider on a joined liability basis) to small claims court for the cost of the nearest equivalent current camera, given that the warranty states it will cover such. Still another option is to approach the Financial Ombudsman Service, again with details of your case. Or, finally, decide if this is a matter of principle that you intend to see through to completion regardless of inconvenience, or if you'd prefer to accept the refund already offered, move on and strike JL from your future supplier list...

You might also consider contacting Martin Lewis of Money Saving Expert, or one of the various newspaper article writers / radio station programmes that deal with consumer affairs. If I recall, BBC Radio 4 has such a programme (it could be "You and Yours", but may be something else... I forget) and is generally successful at getting companies to see sense, if for no other reason than they don't want bad publicity

Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-10-2018 at 02:48 PM.
12-10-2018, 03:50 PM - 1 Like   #54
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Thanks BigMackCam - i had forgotten about Martin Lewis, he is a God among men

Its just the shockingly bad attitude from them thats driving me up the wall - i mean, why would they refuse to give me any information on what the fault was, unless.....

I think i need to insist they give me the camera back and send it to Pentax before the warranty runs out, but at this point i haveno idea if i can take the camera and point out that does not mean im accepting their refusal to act under their own warranty, or that i am giving up any financial recourse.
12-10-2018, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by chutzpah Quote
Any suggestions welcome please - that does not include telling me to take the money offered which it turns out is actually a percentage of the original cost anyway - im running out of time to get this resolved
If Pentax told you that your camera is still under warranty, deal directly with them.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-10-2018 at 09:05 PM.
12-10-2018, 04:40 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If Pentax told you that your camera is still under warranty, deal directly with them.


Steve
I think the quoted post should be attributed to the OP rather than me, but otherwise, I concur
12-10-2018, 05:14 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If Pentax told you that your camera is still under warranty, deal directly with them.
Steve
^^I agree with this. It seems there might be a miscommunication between the store and the OP. At least in the US, the consumer is responsible for sending the device to the manufacturer. That could be a reason that the probably clerical person at the store refused to send it to Pentax. The OP seems to assume that they will not return it to him. Also, I'm not surprised that the store did not give a diagnosis, considering they've already said they couldn't fix it. Perhaps they lack the expertise or equipment to diagnose and repair this defunct model,or simply know that, for whatever reason, they can't fix it. Further effort would be unwarranted. IMO, they made a pretty good offer to refund the purchase price.

The reality is that even after it's fixed, the OP will still have a used camera worth maybe £200, whereas he could take £300 and put it toward a more current offering. I think that I would try to swing an upgrade with the ~£100 advantage.
12-10-2018, 09:06 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think the quoted post should be attributed to the OP rather than me, but otherwise, I concur
Fixed. One would think that as long as I have been here I would remember to not quote a portion of a quote.


Steve
12-10-2018, 09:47 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by chutzpah Quote
Im here to tell everyone here who claims that JL are literally the only upstanding retail organisation left in the UK are wrong - they have now doubled down on refusing to even give me the details of their 'assessment' which is illegal under GDPR ( let alone the warranty), they are refusing to look at any option or replacement or fixing.

So they 'claim' the camera cannot be fixed, then they claim its 'too expensive' then despite me telling them that Pentax have confirmed they need to send the camera to them they have refused to do so and refused to explain the fault ( which of course would help with Pentax deciding if its worth being sent)

'If we can't repair your item, we'll replace it with an item of equivalent specification. If no equivalent product is available, we'll either offer you the nearest equivalent specification or its selling price value , and we'll always do our best to make sure you're satisfied with the outcome'

None of the above mentions refusing to fix, or refusing to give details of the fault, its looking like they wont even release the camera to me. Pentax accredited fixers want to help but their hands are tied - pretty sure this is now sharp practice and i am NOT here for this type of treatment, that its JL and not some ratty little organisation is just the cherry on the cake.

Any suggestions welcome please - that does not include telling me to take the money offered which it turns out is actually a percentage of the original cost anyway - im running out of time to get this resolved
Well I am sorry to hear this. Obviously JL standards have slipped over the years.

What exactly have they offered you ? If it does not equal the bold line that I quoted above, ask them why not.

I agree with the others if the official Pentax repairers are prepared to fix it under the Pentax warranty then get the camera back from JL and send it to to them.
12-11-2018, 06:54 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
What exactly have they offered you ? If it does not equal the bold line that I quoted above, ask them why not.
They offered a full refund, which seems much better than getting another £300 camera (If no equivalent product is available, we'll either offer you the nearest equivalent specification or its selling price value)
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