Full Conversion Questions ???

dem5867 · 07-18-2019, 05:40 PM

Question / Opinions ,, because of a stupid mistake of putting a known bad "green" aperture solenoid, when I took the white one in the body (K20) to replace the bad green item from my K50 {I have new "green" ones and that's what I planed on putting back in the K20 yet age set in and wola.}.

Ok , with that out of the way,,, I have questions about full spectrum conversion.. First I read someplace that not only does this camera have a "Hot filter pack" , there's also I piece of clear glass mounted right over the sensor (I didn't notice one but Is wasn't looking for one..) , can anybody confirm if this is or isn't a thin "glass sheet" directly over the sensor.. I'm thinking there's no glass right on top of the sensor..

Glass or not, I have a piece of 2mm quartz window coming in (The hot filter pack is 2mm.) .. it's pretty flat 290nm to >1000nm, 91% so should I try to find somebody in the USA to AR coat it, on both sides.. I understand that the AR coating could decrease reflections and I may get > 95% transmittance. I don't think one coating will do the whole range.. I read someplace on can put one range AR over another to get a wider range, is this true ?? Are there other factors to be considered ??

AR or not : I read that some lens / filter makers blacking the edges on the glass , it's supposed to help with reflections caused by the light reflecting off the edge of the glass.. I've seen some people saying they used a black marker to achieve the same effect, comments ?? Why not flat black paint ? The hot filter pack I removed is blackened , funny it looks like black marker..

I have a cut glass microscope slide which a appears to be working somewhat, I have not tried UV and AWB cannot seem to completely white balance even with a hot filter on the front of the lens, may have to do a MWB to color of the color shift. The problem I have with the microscope slide is 2 fold, 1 they appear to have a green tinit to them when looking thru the side. Optical quality slides cost more then the quartz and who knows what there band is ??? 2 Even though I ordered 1.5mm slides the vendor ended up sending me 1.1mm and could not get the 1.5mm at this time.

Piezo dust removal, some people seem to say there are wires and pads (It sounds like the wires are attached to the hot filter.) that if you want the PDR to work you need to reattach them ?? Wires I did not see no wires when I removed the hot filter, yet the hot filter does appear to be silver plated on the top and bottom edges on one side and the to ends (sides) on the other side,, one side does touch the CCD frame , yet the other side touches the sticky gasket which I'm guessing is not conductive to the filter frame ,, comments again.

Does anybody know with I might get the double sticky foam gasket the mounts the hot fitter to the filter frame ??

Lastly,, I now have the answer to the age old question :: "Putting an bad green solenoid in an older K body doesn't work".. I was going to put a new green one in and see how that goes, yet I have a older white one.

Thanks
DEM

Ontarian50 · 07-19-2019, 10:08 AM

I didn't think any Pentaxes used piezo dust removal. Don't they all just jiggle the sensor via IBIS?

Anyway, it can be an issue with cameras that do have piezo dust removal elements. A Nikon D300 I converted had to have the dust removal glass removed to be able to do an IR conversion - as both the dust removal glass and the low pass filter had IR filters. Fortunately the unsoldering and removal of the element didn't hurt the functionality of the camera - the menu just simply greyed out the dust removal options.

**pcrichmond** · 07-19-2019, 10:13 AM

Greetings, I had my full spectrum conversions out sourced, not a DIY person when it comes to small computer wiring. One was done by Isaac Szabo the other by Kolarivision.
I notice Kolari sells IR, Full Spectrum and Twin Spectrum sensor filters for the DIY folks. Infrared and Full Spectrum DIY Sensor Filters - Kolari Vision
Would imagine the color and thickness of the replacement needs to be exact. Either clear or UV cut and the thickness I would think needs to be the same or thinner with shims to set the focus point.

I haven't been able to use AWB with any preferable results (even with an external hot mirror on lens end) and alway set it using a grey card.
I didn't bother with AR coating. The folks at Kolari talked me out of it as most of my vintage Pentax glass doesn't suffer from hotspots. My newer Sigma DG, DC and Tamron lenses do - enough that I don't think an AR coating would have helped.

If interested the folks at Kolari were a source of knowledge when I called them before I decided to have a conversion done.
Good luck with the project.

Ontarian50 · 07-19-2019, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by pcrichmond

I haven't been able to use AWB with any preferable results (even with an external hot mirror on lens end) and alway set it using a grey card.

Are you referring to setting white balance with a filter like the 720nm version (the most common IR conversion choice) on a Pentax?

I didn't realize it at first, but you're actually supposed to set white balance by aiming the camera at green grass - that's how you get foliage white. But Nikons won't quite manage it - that's outside their range. But Pentaxes work a treat.

Not that it really matters much, because if you're processing raw files in Photoshop, just set the white balance to 2000k, with a tint of -90. Those are the numbers the Pentax white balance comes up with. But you can plug them in for any 720nm converted camera.

However, if you want that slightly pinkish/peach colour left in foliage, nudge the tint back to -75. Of course you still have to do the channel swap trick to get the skies blue, etc.

As for white balance with full spectrum cameras, I've no experience there yet.

dem5867 · 07-19-2019, 07:14 PM

"Would imagine the color and thickness of the replacement needs to be exact. Either clear or UV cut and the thickness I would think needs to be the same or thinner with shims to set the focus point."

The quartz windows I have coming are the exact same size as the hot mirror pack I removed (22mm * 28mm * 2mm).. Knowing as little as I do about lenses , I didn't even think age or lack there of would be an issue.. Lucky for me I have a lot of old glass I just can not get myself to toss.. One never knows maybe a full frame dslr in the future (Doubtful , One can dream...).. I guess at the other end UV opens a whole other can of worms, especially with lenses.. Everything sounds so simple ,, it's always the details that becomes the issue..

Photoshop,, I'm an old photo guy , liked doing things in the lab,, hoping to use Photoshop as little as possible.. Bummer nobodies come up with a way to switch the channels via the camera..

One thing I've already noticed (Others have mentioned it lightly.) is that the dark IR end is exceptionally hard to focus LV or not and I'm thinking the same thing when using VIS blocking UV filters.. If I'm happy with the K20 I may look to see if the K-01 can use clip in filters or see if I can make clip in filters for a K-01.. Although not a big fan of my K-01 (Camera is great , operator issue ,,, always trying to look thru the viewfinder, Ya , I know the K-01 don't have a viewfinder !!) and I wouldn't do it to the K-01 I own,, if I was to see one at a good price I'd think about it .. Why ,, just the logic of using a mirror less body ,, basically what ever the sensor can see you can see or so they say..

I'm still on the fence on the AR.. I may put a non AR piece in the K-20 , I have enough that I could see if somebody would throw a couple in with a larger job or end run of AR coating.. One reason I think not to AR coat is the apparent complex math to calculate the centers bands of the coating it appears that the thickness of the glass plays a roll in the band calculations , there appears to be media to glass light wave as well as the normal glass to surface math..

I'll report back on how it goes..

As always ,, comments , suggestions ....

dem5867 · 07-20-2019, 11:14 AM

Age again,, I have a ccd frame from the ist I'm using for parts.. Couple of items I noticed is there is a thin piece of glass directly over the CCD , the hot filter is ~.5mm thicker from the ist (2mm K20 , 2.5mm ist.), the glass appears lighter colored on the ist., the ist appears to have less refection than the k20 and lastly the ist HMF appears NOT to be blacked around the edge.. I'm hoping the sticky gasket is the thickness..

The attachment is trying to show the thin glass...

**pcrichmond** · 07-20-2019, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by dem5867

Age again,, I have a ccd frame from the ist I'm using for parts.. Couple of items I noticed is there is a thin piece of glass directly over the CCD , the hot filter is ~.5mm thicker from the ist (2mm K20 , 2.5mm ist.), the glass appears lighter colored on the ist., the ist appears to have less refection than the k20 and lastly the ist HMF appears NOT to be blacked around the edge.. I'm hoping the sticky gasket is the thickness..

The attachment is trying to show the thin glass...

Interesting, hopefully someone with more knowledge will pop in and give you some good direction.
I was still plugging away with the K1000 and 6x7 until the k20 came out so not that familiar with the mechanics of the digital series.
I remember reading that the earlier ist series was an alright IR performer without conversion, a bit long in time but still very useable.
Might be the difference in glass your seeing there, color and thickness.

I think FS is the conversion to do as it will let you do any wavelength of IR plus put an external hotmirror on and shoot visible too.
Many older lenses are good IR performers. UV is a different matter. Love working in UV but did a lot of research and trial and error to come up with only 4 lenses that transmit UV well without much shift, or breaking the bank. Only 2 go down to the 320nm range.
Haven't had any issue with focusing in LV with the darker IR filters. My favorite is the 87, very warm monochromes with just a touch of blue. Not much into the faux color myself and prefer not to channel swap much other than the 720nm to get the blue skies. As much as I don't like to spend time in PP (not as relaxing as being in a darkroom) the IR work is much faster and easier in digital.
The K01 is a solid IR/FS performer. Bought a cheap, solid plastic loupe that attaches via the tripod mount and the back screen works well this way.

dem5867 · 07-21-2019, 08:04 AM

More questions ,, the hot filter pack (As I'm calling it ) is clearly 2 pieces of glass {Term used loosely.} sandwiched together, I was thinking the one piece was the IR filter with color correction and the other I'm thinking is a low past filter.. yet now that I see the ccd has what appears a thin piece of glass I'm thinking maybe that's the low pass filter,, does anybody know.. Maybe one of those people that did their own conversion can post if they remove the glass covering the CCD or not.. Is that the piece of glass that some people say has 2 piezo strips ?? I ask because some people state to be careful about touching the sensor and checking for dust on the sensor yet this glass does not aloud one to direct touch the sensor with this glass in place..

TIA

**photogem** · 07-22-2019, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Ontarian50

I didn't think any Pentaxes used piezo dust removal. Don't they all just jiggle the sensor via IBIS?.

K-7, K-5 series, K-3, KP and K1 have the DR-II dust removal system introduced with the K-1:

Instead of shaking the entire (large/heavy) sensor module, this mechanism employs a piezo-ceramic element to vibrate only the CMOS chip at ultrasonic speed

dem5867 · 07-23-2019, 05:21 PM

Thanks for responding,, photogem ,, so the K20 only has the big shaky part and no piezo-ceramic , correct ?

Boy, I'm hoping you can straiten me out on this,, I read all over the place to be careful to not scratch the CCD or that it's hard to get dust off of it, which lead me to think the sensor itself is exposed , yet the K20 and a ist I use for parts has a thin glass cover on it is that normal or is that a Pentax thing ??

Well if you can't tell by my questions on this upgrade that optics is a huge weakest for me even though I've worked for a couple for Otological companies. I do electronics, yet in one of those jobs I showed an optical engineer that one didn't need a BS to prove a plastic lenses didn't burn a test paper when the glass lenses could,, He was trying to protect his job , he ordered hundreds of bad plastic lenses saving the company hundreds and costing them thousands,, they walked him , and I left because the CEO came to me after I showed him the issue an stated "You don't have an optical degree so what's makes you right and him wrong he, has a degree !" The day they trashed all the plastic lenses I told that CEO , I didn't need a degree to tell you they were bad did I !! and walked out the door !! Many years later I would work for him again at which time he apologizing.. There's more to the story yet you get the idea !!

So 1st question is what is the story with the thin glass cover , it doesn't seem that easy to scratch !! Is it a low pass filter ?? Do I need to worry about it for the conversion ?? The glass appears to be bonded to the ceramic with some type of heat cured glass epoxy,, Do I need to worry about this glass ?? The only way I can see to remove it is to break it,, just seems like a bad idea !!

2. I pulled out what from reading I thought it the hot filter sandwiched with a low pass filter, yet I tried to unsuccessfully break them apart and from what I can tell both pieces of glass appear blue which I thought was an indicator of the color correcting part of the hot filter, do you know are they both blue or can I not see it correctly and one is clear ?? Could the low pass filter be blue in color..

Lastly I'm on the fence wither I should try to find somebody to AR coat the Quartz glass I have coming in,, from what I've read it appears that AR coating may limit the spectrum range ,, I did read something about using two coatings ,, it just seems to be getting to be a lot to go thru for a AR coating ,, and in the end there seems to be some correlation between the coating and the light transmission (Seems odd to me most times when you add something on you lose something , is this not so with coatings ??) as well as the thickness of the glass to coating spectrum .. In your and anybody else is it worth the hassle to have it coated for full spectrum use ??

I hope I can regret this statement later,, yet from all I read about UV it seem like such a hassle , is it worth it or as some have said just go with vis, uv..
If I'm read correctly UV has issue with lenses , sensors, is there other issues with UV maybe I should know about ??

TIA
DEM

Originally posted by photogem

K-7, K-5 series, K-3, KP and K1 have the DR-II dust removal system introduced with the K-1:

Instead of shaking the entire (large/heavy) sensor module, this mechanism employs a piezo-ceramic element to vibrate only the CMOS chip at ultrasonic speed

**photogem** · 07-24-2019, 12:47 AM

The K20D does not have a CCD but a CMOS, so when you speak about CCD you mean your *ist I guess.

In front of the sensor is the bandpass-filter (IR blocking-filter) and the anti-aliasing-filter (two glass plates) Those can be replaced with clear glass if you want to use different filters on your lenses.

If you don't use clear glass you need filters but I guess you know all about this

A good manual for the conversion of an *ist-D is to be found here by Vincenzo Miceli (Ireland):

Pentax *ist D IR Mod - Enzo's Home

A good manual for the IR conversion of the K10D here:
Pentax K10D Infrared Conversion DIY Tutorial and Disassembly Guide - Kolari Vision
and here:
Converting A Pentax K10D To IR Photography - DIY Photography

You also might find the approach of Markus Keinath interesting:

Markus Keinaths Photohomepage - DIY IR DSLR Camera with exchangeable filter

A Pentax-body with a good live-view is always better.
The K-01 was very liked for conversion. Maybe this one would be a better choice as you have one anyway.

The live-view of the K20D is not the best, it was the first time Pentax applied LV.

dem5867 · 07-24-2019, 07:32 AM

I didn't realize the K20 was CMOS ,, I'll have to look closer at them, I looked at them quickly and they looked the same..

I did read some of the links you posted,, after I started the K20 conversion,, that's the reason for the coating question, It appears some say to coat and others say don't.. I need to go back and reread the links.. It seems and I only looked quickly so there's most likely other points of view I didn't read, yet it appears most don't AR coat a full conversion, and others seemed mostly VIS / IR conversion stated to AR coating , A couple stating it's a must for astrophotography.. Never say never , so I will stay it this way I don't plan on doing astrophotography.. So The question was to coat or not,, I'm thinking unless somebody states the difference is night and day, I'm not going to coat..

The K-01 ,, yes yourself and several others had stated that the K-01 is a good platform to convert, yet I try not to open cameras until they need to be. Timex Syndrome !!
Yet I was going to ask you about K-01 , I believe it's here in the USA, that was / is going on the cheap because the owner states that the shutter is stuck. I was thinking of getting it yet, in looking into I'm not sure it's would be a smart move of me. There seems to be several posts on the K-01 questioning about the normal shutter position (opened or closed..) and the is a very small amount that appear to really have shutter issues, I just do think I ready to take on a shutter issue.. It would most likely be a good K-01 to learn on, yet I just presently cannot lay out the short cash, especially if I going to pull the trigger on a used K70, I would love to find another K70 for cheap that has the aperture issue,, yet I'm getting an itchy trigger finger.

Lastly , so I'm guessing , yet the thin glass glued to the front of the sensor is not an issue ?? I'm replacing the 2 glass filter with a piece of clear quartz, it's supposed to be flat from < 290nm to > 1000nm, I'm thinking that's a good choice for a full conversion.

07-18-2019, 05:40 PM	#1
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34	Full Conversion Questions ??? Question / Opinions ,, because of a stupid mistake of putting a known bad "green" aperture solenoid, when I took the white one in the body (K20) to replace the bad green item from my K50 {I have new "green" ones and that's what I planed on putting back in the K20 yet age set in and wola.}. Ok , with that out of the way,,, I have questions about full spectrum conversion.. First I read someplace that not only does this camera have a "Hot filter pack" , there's also I piece of clear glass mounted right over the sensor (I didn't notice one but Is wasn't looking for one..) , can anybody confirm if this is or isn't a thin "glass sheet" directly over the sensor.. I'm thinking there's no glass right on top of the sensor.. Glass or not, I have a piece of 2mm quartz window coming in (The hot filter pack is 2mm.) .. it's pretty flat 290nm to >1000nm, 91% so should I try to find somebody in the USA to AR coat it, on both sides.. I understand that the AR coating could decrease reflections and I may get > 95% transmittance. I don't think one coating will do the whole range.. I read someplace on can put one range AR over another to get a wider range, is this true ?? Are there other factors to be considered ?? AR or not : I read that some lens / filter makers blacking the edges on the glass , it's supposed to help with reflections caused by the light reflecting off the edge of the glass.. I've seen some people saying they used a black marker to achieve the same effect, comments ?? Why not flat black paint ? The hot filter pack I removed is blackened , funny it looks like black marker.. I have a cut glass microscope slide which a appears to be working somewhat, I have not tried UV and AWB cannot seem to completely white balance even with a hot filter on the front of the lens, may have to do a MWB to color of the color shift. The problem I have with the microscope slide is 2 fold, 1 they appear to have a green tinit to them when looking thru the side. Optical quality slides cost more then the quartz and who knows what there band is ??? 2 Even though I ordered 1.5mm slides the vendor ended up sending me 1.1mm and could not get the 1.5mm at this time. Piezo dust removal, some people seem to say there are wires and pads (It sounds like the wires are attached to the hot filter.) that if you want the PDR to work you need to reattach them ?? Wires I did not see no wires when I removed the hot filter, yet the hot filter does appear to be silver plated on the top and bottom edges on one side and the to ends (sides) on the other side,, one side does touch the CCD frame , yet the other side touches the sticky gasket which I'm guessing is not conductive to the filter frame ,, comments again. Does anybody know with I might get the double sticky foam gasket the mounts the hot fitter to the filter frame ?? Lastly,, I now have the answer to the age old question :: "Putting an bad green solenoid in an older K body doesn't work".. I was going to put a new green one in and see how that goes, yet I have a older white one. Thanks DEM

07-20-2019, 11:14 AM	#6
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34 Original Poster	Age again,, I have a ccd frame from the ist I'm using for parts.. Couple of items I noticed is there is a thin piece of glass directly over the CCD , the hot filter is ~.5mm thicker from the ist (2mm K20 , 2.5mm ist.), the glass appears lighter colored on the ist., the ist appears to have less refection than the k20 and lastly the ist HMF appears NOT to be blacked around the edge.. I'm hoping the sticky gasket is the thickness.. The attachment is trying to show the thin glass... Attached Images

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07-19-2019, 10:08 AM	#2
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	I didn't think any Pentaxes used piezo dust removal. Don't they all just jiggle the sensor via IBIS? Anyway, it can be an issue with cameras that do have piezo dust removal elements. A Nikon D300 I converted had to have the dust removal glass removed to be able to do an IR conversion - as both the dust removal glass and the low pass filter had IR filters. Fortunately the unsoldering and removal of the element didn't hurt the functionality of the camera - the menu just simply greyed out the dust removal options.

07-19-2019, 10:13 AM	#3
pcrichmond Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bishop, CA Posts: 278	Greetings, I had my full spectrum conversions out sourced, not a DIY person when it comes to small computer wiring. One was done by Isaac Szabo the other by Kolarivision. I notice Kolari sells IR, Full Spectrum and Twin Spectrum sensor filters for the DIY folks. Infrared and Full Spectrum DIY Sensor Filters - Kolari Vision Would imagine the color and thickness of the replacement needs to be exact. Either clear or UV cut and the thickness I would think needs to be the same or thinner with shims to set the focus point. I haven't been able to use AWB with any preferable results (even with an external hot mirror on lens end) and alway set it using a grey card. I didn't bother with AR coating. The folks at Kolari talked me out of it as most of my vintage Pentax glass doesn't suffer from hotspots. My newer Sigma DG, DC and Tamron lenses do - enough that I don't think an AR coating would have helped. If interested the folks at Kolari were a source of knowledge when I called them before I decided to have a conversion done. Good luck with the project.

07-19-2019, 10:31 AM	#4
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	Originally posted by pcrichmond I haven't been able to use AWB with any preferable results (even with an external hot mirror on lens end) and alway set it using a grey card. Are you referring to setting white balance with a filter like the 720nm version (the most common IR conversion choice) on a Pentax? I didn't realize it at first, but you're actually supposed to set white balance by aiming the camera at green grass - that's how you get foliage white. But Nikons won't quite manage it - that's outside their range. But Pentaxes work a treat. Not that it really matters much, because if you're processing raw files in Photoshop, just set the white balance to 2000k, with a tint of -90. Those are the numbers the Pentax white balance comes up with. But you can plug them in for any 720nm converted camera. However, if you want that slightly pinkish/peach colour left in foliage, nudge the tint back to -75. Of course you still have to do the channel swap trick to get the skies blue, etc. As for white balance with full spectrum cameras, I've no experience there yet.

07-19-2019, 07:14 PM	#5
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34 Original Poster	"Would imagine the color and thickness of the replacement needs to be exact. Either clear or UV cut and the thickness I would think needs to be the same or thinner with shims to set the focus point." The quartz windows I have coming are the exact same size as the hot mirror pack I removed (22mm * 28mm * 2mm).. Knowing as little as I do about lenses , I didn't even think age or lack there of would be an issue.. Lucky for me I have a lot of old glass I just can not get myself to toss.. One never knows maybe a full frame dslr in the future (Doubtful , One can dream...).. I guess at the other end UV opens a whole other can of worms, especially with lenses.. Everything sounds so simple ,, it's always the details that becomes the issue.. Photoshop,, I'm an old photo guy , liked doing things in the lab,, hoping to use Photoshop as little as possible.. Bummer nobodies come up with a way to switch the channels via the camera.. One thing I've already noticed (Others have mentioned it lightly.) is that the dark IR end is exceptionally hard to focus LV or not and I'm thinking the same thing when using VIS blocking UV filters.. If I'm happy with the K20 I may look to see if the K-01 can use clip in filters or see if I can make clip in filters for a K-01.. Although not a big fan of my K-01 (Camera is great , operator issue ,,, always trying to look thru the viewfinder, Ya , I know the K-01 don't have a viewfinder !!) and I wouldn't do it to the K-01 I own,, if I was to see one at a good price I'd think about it .. Why ,, just the logic of using a mirror less body ,, basically what ever the sensor can see you can see or so they say.. I'm still on the fence on the AR.. I may put a non AR piece in the K-20 , I have enough that I could see if somebody would throw a couple in with a larger job or end run of AR coating.. One reason I think not to AR coat is the apparent complex math to calculate the centers bands of the coating it appears that the thickness of the glass plays a roll in the band calculations , there appears to be media to glass light wave as well as the normal glass to surface math.. I'll report back on how it goes.. As always ,, comments , suggestions ....

07-20-2019, 07:19 PM	#7
pcrichmond Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bishop, CA Posts: 278	Originally posted by dem5867 Age again,, I have a ccd frame from the ist I'm using for parts.. Couple of items I noticed is there is a thin piece of glass directly over the CCD , the hot filter is ~.5mm thicker from the ist (2mm K20 , 2.5mm ist.), the glass appears lighter colored on the ist., the ist appears to have less refection than the k20 and lastly the ist HMF appears NOT to be blacked around the edge.. I'm hoping the sticky gasket is the thickness.. The attachment is trying to show the thin glass... Interesting, hopefully someone with more knowledge will pop in and give you some good direction. I was still plugging away with the K1000 and 6x7 until the k20 came out so not that familiar with the mechanics of the digital series. I remember reading that the earlier ist series was an alright IR performer without conversion, a bit long in time but still very useable. Might be the difference in glass your seeing there, color and thickness. I think FS is the conversion to do as it will let you do any wavelength of IR plus put an external hotmirror on and shoot visible too. Many older lenses are good IR performers. UV is a different matter. Love working in UV but did a lot of research and trial and error to come up with only 4 lenses that transmit UV well without much shift, or breaking the bank. Only 2 go down to the 320nm range. Haven't had any issue with focusing in LV with the darker IR filters. My favorite is the 87, very warm monochromes with just a touch of blue. Not much into the faux color myself and prefer not to channel swap much other than the 720nm to get the blue skies. As much as I don't like to spend time in PP (not as relaxing as being in a darkroom) the IR work is much faster and easier in digital. The K01 is a solid IR/FS performer. Bought a cheap, solid plastic loupe that attaches via the tripod mount and the back screen works well this way.

07-21-2019, 08:04 AM	#8
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34 Original Poster	More questions ,, the hot filter pack (As I'm calling it ) is clearly 2 pieces of glass {Term used loosely.} sandwiched together, I was thinking the one piece was the IR filter with color correction and the other I'm thinking is a low past filter.. yet now that I see the ccd has what appears a thin piece of glass I'm thinking maybe that's the low pass filter,, does anybody know.. Maybe one of those people that did their own conversion can post if they remove the glass covering the CCD or not.. Is that the piece of glass that some people say has 2 piezo strips ?? I ask because some people state to be careful about touching the sensor and checking for dust on the sensor yet this glass does not aloud one to direct touch the sensor with this glass in place.. TIA

07-22-2019, 02:33 PM	#9
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,520	Originally posted by Ontarian50 I didn't think any Pentaxes used piezo dust removal. Don't they all just jiggle the sensor via IBIS?. K-7, K-5 series, K-3, KP and K1 have the DR-II dust removal system introduced with the K-1: Instead of shaking the entire (large/heavy) sensor module, this mechanism employs a piezo-ceramic element to vibrate only the CMOS chip at ultrasonic speed

07-23-2019, 05:21 PM	#10
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34 Original Poster	Thanks for responding,, photogem ,, so the K20 only has the big shaky part and no piezo-ceramic , correct ? Boy, I'm hoping you can straiten me out on this,, I read all over the place to be careful to not scratch the CCD or that it's hard to get dust off of it, which lead me to think the sensor itself is exposed , yet the K20 and a ist I use for parts has a thin glass cover on it is that normal or is that a Pentax thing ?? Well if you can't tell by my questions on this upgrade that optics is a huge weakest for me even though I've worked for a couple for Otological companies. I do electronics, yet in one of those jobs I showed an optical engineer that one didn't need a BS to prove a plastic lenses didn't burn a test paper when the glass lenses could,, He was trying to protect his job , he ordered hundreds of bad plastic lenses saving the company hundreds and costing them thousands,, they walked him , and I left because the CEO came to me after I showed him the issue an stated "You don't have an optical degree so what's makes you right and him wrong he, has a degree !" The day they trashed all the plastic lenses I told that CEO , I didn't need a degree to tell you they were bad did I !! and walked out the door !! Many years later I would work for him again at which time he apologizing.. There's more to the story yet you get the idea !! So 1st question is what is the story with the thin glass cover , it doesn't seem that easy to scratch !! Is it a low pass filter ?? Do I need to worry about it for the conversion ?? The glass appears to be bonded to the ceramic with some type of heat cured glass epoxy,, Do I need to worry about this glass ?? The only way I can see to remove it is to break it,, just seems like a bad idea !! 2. I pulled out what from reading I thought it the hot filter sandwiched with a low pass filter, yet I tried to unsuccessfully break them apart and from what I can tell both pieces of glass appear blue which I thought was an indicator of the color correcting part of the hot filter, do you know are they both blue or can I not see it correctly and one is clear ?? Could the low pass filter be blue in color.. Lastly I'm on the fence wither I should try to find somebody to AR coat the Quartz glass I have coming in,, from what I've read it appears that AR coating may limit the spectrum range ,, I did read something about using two coatings ,, it just seems to be getting to be a lot to go thru for a AR coating ,, and in the end there seems to be some correlation between the coating and the light transmission (Seems odd to me most times when you add something on you lose something , is this not so with coatings ??) as well as the thickness of the glass to coating spectrum .. In your and anybody else is it worth the hassle to have it coated for full spectrum use ?? I hope I can regret this statement later,, yet from all I read about UV it seem like such a hassle , is it worth it or as some have said just go with vis, uv.. If I'm read correctly UV has issue with lenses , sensors, is there other issues with UV maybe I should know about ?? TIA DEM Originally posted by photogem K-7, K-5 series, K-3, KP and K1 have the DR-II dust removal system introduced with the K-1: Instead of shaking the entire (large/heavy) sensor module, this mechanism employs a piezo-ceramic element to vibrate only the CMOS chip at ultrasonic speed

07-24-2019, 12:47 AM	#11
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,520	The K20D does not have a CCD but a CMOS, so when you speak about CCD you mean your ist I guess. In front of the sensor is the bandpass-filter (IR blocking-filter) and the anti-aliasing-filter (two glass plates) Those can be replaced with clear glass if you want to use different filters on your lenses. If you don't use clear glass you need filters but I guess you know all about this A good manual for the conversion of an ist-D is to be found here by Vincenzo Miceli (Ireland): Pentax *ist D IR Mod - Enzo's Home A good manual for the IR conversion of the K10D here: Pentax K10D Infrared Conversion DIY Tutorial and Disassembly Guide - Kolari Vision and here: Converting A Pentax K10D To IR Photography - DIY Photography You also might find the approach of Markus Keinath interesting: Markus Keinaths Photohomepage - DIY IR DSLR Camera with exchangeable filter A Pentax-body with a good live-view is always better. The K-01 was very liked for conversion. Maybe this one would be a better choice as you have one anyway. The live-view of the K20D is not the best, it was the first time Pentax applied LV.

07-24-2019, 07:32 AM	#12
dem5867 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 34 Original Poster	I didn't realize the K20 was CMOS ,, I'll have to look closer at them, I looked at them quickly and they looked the same.. I did read some of the links you posted,, after I started the K20 conversion,, that's the reason for the coating question, It appears some say to coat and others say don't.. I need to go back and reread the links.. It seems and I only looked quickly so there's most likely other points of view I didn't read, yet it appears most don't AR coat a full conversion, and others seemed mostly VIS / IR conversion stated to AR coating , A couple stating it's a must for astrophotography.. Never say never , so I will stay it this way I don't plan on doing astrophotography.. So The question was to coat or not,, I'm thinking unless somebody states the difference is night and day, I'm not going to coat.. The K-01 ,, yes yourself and several others had stated that the K-01 is a good platform to convert, yet I try not to open cameras until they need to be. Timex Syndrome !! Yet I was going to ask you about K-01 , I believe it's here in the USA, that was / is going on the cheap because the owner states that the shutter is stuck. I was thinking of getting it yet, in looking into I'm not sure it's would be a smart move of me. There seems to be several posts on the K-01 questioning about the normal shutter position (opened or closed..) and the is a very small amount that appear to really have shutter issues, I just do think I ready to take on a shutter issue.. It would most likely be a good K-01 to learn on, yet I just presently cannot lay out the short cash, especially if I going to pull the trigger on a used K70, I would love to find another K70 for cheap that has the aperture issue,, yet I'm getting an itchy trigger finger. Lastly , so I'm guessing , yet the thin glass glued to the front of the sensor is not an issue ?? I'm replacing the 2 glass filter with a piece of clear quartz, it's supposed to be flat from < 290nm to > 1000nm, I'm thinking that's a good choice for a full conversion.