[stevebrot]

Whatever Precision says can be taken as a statement from Ricoh, since Precision is Ricoh's agent.

My understanding of their relationship is that Precision has an exclusive contract to provide warranty service and that part of that contract is physical evaluation that may be shared with Ricoh. They are not Ricoh's surrogate in determining the outcome of a claim, rather they communicate whether Ricoh is honoring the claim along with an offer to provide the service directly if the owner desires.

FWIW, Precision is disincented from exaggerating evidence of abuse.* Better to have the work approved, do the work, and get the item back to its owner as quickly as possible.


Steve

* Am I correct that conspiring to deny remedy is a serious offense?

[eyespywithmyi]

FWIW, Precision is disincented from exaggerating evidence of abuse.* Better to have the work approved, do the work, and get the item back to its owner as quickly as possible.


Steve

* Am I correct that conspiring to deny remedy is a serious offense?

I can't agree that they're disincentivised to exaggerate claims. I am not necessarily saying I think they are incentivized to do it but I cannot see how they are the reverse either.

[stevebrot]

I can't agree that they're disincentivised to exaggerate claims.

What is their incentive to say something is abuse when it might be interpreted as normal wear? Warranty work is a sure thing, whereas going back to the customer runs the substantial risk of not getting paid at all. Read a few "should I get it repaired?" threads on this site and about 2/3rds decide to assess the broken item as loss. The economics of repair are not on the side of the shop.


Steve

[VoiceOfReason]

The persistent and fraudulent use of the phrase, "impact damage" in order to rationalize the refusal to honor their warranty obligations is precisely why Ricoh is on my "no-buy list". Whatever Precision says can be taken as a statement from Ricoh, since Precision is Ricoh's agent. Might want to check local consumer protection laws.

Unfortunately I think Nikon, Sony, and Olympus also use them as their warranty service center as well.

[VoiceOfReason]

What is their incentive to say something is abuse when it might be interpreted as normal wear? Warranty work is a sure thing, whereas going back to the customer runs the substantial risk of not getting paid at all. Read a few "should I get it repaired?" threads on this site and about 2/3rds decide to assess the broken item as loss. The economics of repair are not on the side of the shop.


Steve

They certainly called my DFA 150-450 impact damage until I got Ricoh involved.

[UncleVanya]

We don’t know the financial arrangement - speculation is just that. I’d be surprised however if there was no financial incentive for determining when something isn’t within the scope of warranty work... Even though they may be wrong sometimes.

[stevebrot]

I’d be surprised however if there was no financial incentive for determining when something isn’t within the scope of warranty work... Even though they may be wrong sometimes.

The incentive is keeping the warranty service contract, I suppose. I am curious about the criteria used for "impact damage". For example, stripped or pulled out screws would not be a clear indication without some corresponding damage such as scrapes/dents.


Steve

[AgentL]

I've had both good and not-great Precision experiences. They've handled my GR II and GR III well in the past, but last time I asked for servicing on a couple points on my GR III and the quote was rather astronomical.

[stevebrot]

Who else repairs Pentax in the Continental USA? Can they get parts...

Several places and yes, they can get parts. That does not mean that they can perform every repair or that they will sell you parts. Some things require instrumentation or parts assemblies that requires the item be sent to Precision or Japan.

Pentax Repair Facilities (Wordwide listing) - PentaxForums.com


Steve

(...where can I get some of this video reality stuff...)

So, the K-1 your last Pentax camera then?

Unless I buy something used. The Pentax products work great when they work. The lenses are optically terrific, but in my experience, there's a significant risk that they'll fall apart in your hands. I factor in the cost to repair in anything I buy used, though thus far I've only had to send one used lens I've bought out for repair.

---------- Post added 2020-12-15 at 12:45 PM ----------

Unfortunately I think Nikon, Sony, and Olympus also use them as their warranty service center as well.

That's a major reason why I've gone out and bought a Canon 5ds-r & a bunch of EOS-EF lenses.

---------- Post added 2020-12-15 at 12:46 PM ----------

Interesting, after me kind of getting upset over the phone and email there the status is repair completed and shows it is shipped with a tracking number.

Did they back out the charges?

[MarkJerling]

.....The Pentax products work great when they work. The lenses are optically terrific, but in my experience, there's a significant risk that they'll fall apart in your hands.....

I've never had any Pentax product "fall apart" or otherwise fail in my hands in over 30 years of buying new and used Pentax cameras and lenses. So, I'm going to take your "significant risk" with a pinch of salt.
Or as we say here in New Zealand: "Yeah right!"

I don't believe Pentax gear is at any greater risk of failure than the products produced by any other camera manufacturer and, if anything, most Pentax gear I think is made more robust than expected. I know there are a few lens models that could have been made better, but for the whole, I think the products are very well made indeed.

[stevebrot]

Or as we say here in New Zealand: "Yeah right!"

We say that here too and I concur.

That said, this member has reported three bad copies of the DA 560/5.6 one of which "fell apart", so they do speak from experience. I am sure you remember the thread.

In addition, we seem to have a tradition of reports of spontaneous disassembly here on PF. Google "Pentax lens fell apart" and Pentax Forums comes to the top of the list with a large number of results spanning several long threads. I remember most of those threads. In a number of cases, I suspected unintended abuse (attempting manual focus on a non-quickshift lens while the AF pawl was engaged) and in others perhaps a history of simply treating things roughly and in others, a systemic manufacturing defect. There are so many possibilities...

Google | pentax lens fell apart site:www.pentaxforums.com

Continuing...Some were obviously rough previously owned lenses and a few members had actually had multiple similar failures (heavy handed zoom technique?) and a few even admitted to the lens having sustained a drop to the pavement.

FWIW, I actually own one of the fall-apart lenses...still solid in my hands...
I will also admit to having accidentally delivered my DA 50/1.8 (plastic fantastic) from counter height to the floor of my kitchen. It bounced, with no obvious damage and seems to work just fine, even with the strong AF motor on my K-3...


Steve

(...inviting ill fortune, perhaps...)

[aslyfox]

. . . Who else repairs Pentax in the Continental USA? . . .

US
KEH.com (GA, Most current and vintage gear)
Eric Hendrickson (Vintage cameras, Current and vintage lenses)
Precision Camera (Authorized to perform warranty service, NC)
Advance Camera (Most current and vintage gear, Portland, OR)
General Camera Repair (LA, CA)
Garry's Camera Repair (IL, select film SLRs)
International Camera Repair (LA, CA)
Halcyon Cameras | Vintage Camera Restoration (Vintage film cameras, San Diego, CA)
Camera Repair Japan (Services Sigma lenses and more, Atlanta, GA)
Allied Camera (MN, manual film cameras)
Bill Rogers Camera (LV, NV, film-era cameras and lenses)
Phototronic (Topeka, KS, film and digital camera repair)
Lezot's Camera Center (VT, film SLRs / medium format)

Read more at: Pentax Repair Facilities (Wordwide listing) - Page 9 - PentaxForums.com

I have used Mike at Phototronic, it is a one man shop open 12:30 - 6 M - F

Contact Phototronic (aka Fix Old Cameras)
Call (785.233.0231), or drop in.
Love to talk camera repair with you,

so please do contact Phototronic during customer counter hours.

https://phototronic.biz/

[MarkJerling]

We say that here too and I concur.

That said, this member has reported three bad copies of the DA 560/5.6 one of which "fell apart", so they do speak from experience. I am sure you remember the thread.

In addition, we seem to have a tradition of reports of spontaneous disassembly here on PF. Google "Pentax lens fell apart" and Pentax Forums comes to the top of the list with a large number of results spanning several long threads. I remember most of those threads. In a number of cases, I suspected unintended abuse (attempting manual focus on a non-quickshift lens while the AF pawl was engaged) and in others perhaps a history of simply treating things roughly and in others, a systemic manufacturing defect. There are so many possibilities...

Google | pentax lens fell apart site:www.pentaxforums.com

Continuing...Some were obviously rough previously owned lenses and a few members had actually had multiple similar failures (heavy handed zoom technique?) and a few even admitted to the lens having sustained a drop to the pavement.

FWIW, I actually own one of the fall-apart lenses...still solid in my hands...
I will also admit to having accidentally delivered my DA 50/1.8 (plastic fantastic) from counter height to the floor of my kitchen. It bounced, with no obvious damage and seems to work just fine, even with the strong AF motor on my K-3...


Steve

(...inviting ill fortune, perhaps...)

I'm not saying it does not happen Steve, but looking at your google search, I spot about 20 instances of lenses "coming apart" and for various reasons, often when dropped, but sometimes (it must be said rarely) "spontaneously". Once you get to about page 6 of that google search (many being instances of the same post / thread) it's clear that most are repetitions. Going by the many thousands of Pentax lenses that must exist and be in use, I struggle to see how such a low failure rate would be reason to forever give up on buying (new) Pentax lenses.

My issue therefore is with the wording "significant risk" which would seem to indicate that this is more likely to happen than the alternative, that being a lens that does not fall apart. I would contend that the actual failure rate would be very low.

[stevebrot]

I'm not saying it does not happen Steve, but looking at your google search, I spot about 20 instances of lenses "coming apart" and for various reasons, often when dropped, but sometimes (it must be said rarely) "spontaneously". Once you get to about page 6 of that google search (many being instances of the same post / thread) it's clear that most are repetitions. Going by the many thousands of Pentax lenses that must exist and be in use, I struggle to see how such a low failure rate would be reason to forever give up on buying (new) Pentax lenses.

That was my observation as well. Another observation has been that incidents of that kind of failure usually don't result in a negative review or even negative note here on PF...as we say around these parts, "go figure".*

My issue therefore is with the wording "significant risk" which would seem to indicate that this is more likely to happen than the alternative, that being a lens that does not fall apart. I would contend that the actual failure rate would be very low.

I agree, though the choice of language may simply have been an appeal to sway opinion.


Steve

* Read with sense of irony.