[Wheatfield]

Now that I got my finger on an FF (K-1) everybody is saying stick to APS-C ???

You are making stuff up.

[hjoseph7]

Did you mean to post this in another thread?

Yep !

[eddaytona]

As the old curse goes: May you have a winning lawsuit.

As a lawyer (crim law) I get asked all the time if client can sue this witness or that agency. Sure, I tell them, you can sue anyone for anything. Doesn't mean you will win.

[aslyfox]

As the old curse goes: May you have a winning lawsuit.,. . . . Sure, I tell them, you can sue anyone for anything. Doesn't mean you will win.

can you identify the key question

1 can I sue

sure but that isn't the key question

2 can I win

possibly but that isn't the key question

so what is the key question ?

can you collect the judgment

Drake University Law School, class of 1982

---

Last edited by aslyfox; 10-12-2021 at 07:43 AM.

[stevebrot]

But yes, no matter what kind of lens you put in front of its sensor, K-1 will be always better than K-3 in terms of image quality, dynamic range etc...

If not off-topic, them would be fight'en words...


Steve

[Wheatfield]

If not off-topic, them would be fight'en words...


Steve

It would be a losing fight.

[stevebrot]

In the 50+ years I have been shooting, I have never had water get into one of my cameras. Weather Sealed or not. Just think about what you are doing.

This ^ ^ ^ is my personal experience as well in the very damp Pacific Northwest doing many and varied outdoor activities under all weather conditions. That said, it is quite possible that the unthinkable might have happened with any of my cameras over the years, regardless of my efforts to avoid such and my sympathy extends to anyone enduring that sort of loss.


Steve

[cmeier]

While we are on the subject of water damage, here is the last photo my weather sealed Pentax K-30 will ever take. You'd think I'd taken it under Niagara Fa...
Oh, wait.



My wife says I play too hard with my toys.

[ThorSanchez]

While we are on the subject of water damage, here is the last photo my weather sealed Pentax K-30 will ever take. You'd think I'd taken it under Niagara Fa...
Oh, wait.

My wife says I play too hard with my toys.

You say last, does that mean it got wet and quit working?

My K-30 is now my camera that I'll take out when it's really raining because I don't care that much, as it's a couple generations removed from my K-3 III, and older than the backup K-3 II. Paired with the 18-55 WR kit lens, not going to risk the 55-300 PLM.

[ZombieArmy]

Now that I got my finger on an FF (K-1) everybody is saying stick to APS-C ???

Yah gimme that k-1 and I'll give you my APSC so you don't miss out.

[yucatanPentax]

Having just read this entire thread, I have to say I've been well-educated by everyone on the topic of "water-resistant", "weather-resistant" vs "-proof", etc...

That said, I did believe the advertising over the years, including Pentax various water bottle demonstrations and our own contributor here who poured sand over his cameras, then rinsed them off under a running faucet. (what ever happened to him -- does he still contribute here? Can't think of his user name?)

So... one evening, I was out shooting a community event when a sudden storm blows up. You know, the kind that a hot afternoon on a humid day can create. Blue skies one minute, then suddenly gray, to black, to huge downpours. I didn't have an umbrella. No one expected rain. At the time, I was so fully confident of all the WR talk, I wasn't worried. I just continued to shoot with my K-30 and 60-250mm lens, which I believed at the time to be "weather-proof," even if that was a stretch on the company's own advertising.

I guess luck was with me that day. Despite an absolute downpour, and the fact that i continued to use my camera, which was soaked from rain in every direction as I moved the camera around, it suffered no damage that I could detect. I'd say the K-30 was in the rain for well over an hour.

Once I was finally able to get home, I thoroughly dried everything off, then separated the lens and camera, laying them out over and under fresh dry towels in my air conditioned home with low humidity for two days.

So, at the time I was convinced I owned a "very strongly water-resistant" camera and lens which was impervious to rain. I got those notions from Pentax advertising and trade show photos like those posted in this thread. Now I know much different, and I should exercise caution about the rain, rather than confidence. That's a sorta let-down after all these years.

Undoubtedly, someone will say that my earlier confidence was unjustified and that I was lucky. I agree. I suppose I was very lucky. Still, it's a let-down from feeling that there were no worries in whatever weather.

From memory, it seems there were other PF posts about water damage. But they were about the camera falling into a pond or the ocean, where the force of the splash and total submersion seemed to be the cause, rather than simple rainfall.

Thanks to the OP for the cautionary tale. Sorry that you lost your K3iii. That's quite a blow, no matter what.

Edit: Language from "archive", i.e., "the way-back machine" -- Ricoh's website on Oct 22, 2013: "fully weather sealed" vs "resists water..." So, there was a sort of dichotomy, wasn't there? "Fully sealed"?

I suppose to Ricoh/Pentax, that meant, "weather seals everywhere, but they may not be fully effective so the camera only 'resists' water, fog, snow, sand, dust and more for top performance in extreme conditions..."

"Top performance in extreme conditions...." vs "Keep your camera dry. It may be destroyed by rain or paddle water on a nice day." How is "extreme conditions" compatible with "keep your camera dry"?

Link here: PENTAX - K-5 IIs

[yucatanPentax]

Sorry for the consecutive posts. Where did I get the idea about my K-30 being safe in the rain?
(which for me proved true on more than one occasion -- little did I know the risk I was taking)
From Ricoh/Pentax itself:

"Fully weather sealed body"

"When you're shooting with the PENTAX K-30, there's no need to come in out of the rain. Or the snow, for that matter. The only camera in its class with a fully weather sealed body, the K-30 is water resistant, dustproof and coldproof. Sealed with PENTAX precision, it's a completely climate proof digital SLR for any environment."

Never Take a Rain Check
No need to come in out of the rain. COMPLETELY climate proof digital SLR for any environment.

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130901234450/http://www.us.ricoh-imaging.com/dslr/K-30_Black

---------- Post added 10-30-21 at 03:55 AM ----------

From (2 page PDF): Wayback Machine

It seems like Pentax used stronger language in the past. Are they shying away from this now? "Weather, dust, and coldproof" is pretty strong language. "proof" "Water-tight" "endure the harshest elements nature has to offer" - is that paddling a canoe or kayak?

I'm just saying, we didn't get these impressions on our own. Pentax itself once used very strong language about their cameras.

Emphasis added:

OVERVIEW OF WEATHER AND WATER RESISTANT PENTAX RICOH IMAGING CAMERAS AND LENSES

A growing list of PENTAX photographic products including DSLR cameras, compact digital cameras and certain interchangeable lenses have been specifically engineered to include a high level of protection against dust, moisture, rain, and cold temperatures. Water-tight access covers, gaskets and a generous number of seals in the construction of the camera and lens body have expanded how and where these products can be used.

The current selection of DSLRs from PENTAX offer a weather, dust and coldproof design to ensure reliable and consistent performance both in inclement weather and in those demanding environmental conditions which would challenge any camera.
. . . . .

From the inside-out, PENTAX DSLRs are engineered to be both tough and dependable. Photographers from around the world report the ability to continue to shoot stunning images while enduring the harshest elements nature has to offer, including rain, sleet, and snow.
. . . . .

First are the PENTAX DA* (DA Star) lenses. Recognized for their outstanding image quality and advanced features, PENTAX DA* lenses handle harsh weather with ease. Because each part of a DA* lens that might contact the environment is tightly sealed, it is ideal for use in dusty or rainy conditions. PENTAX DA* lenses are categorized both dustproof and water-resistant.

The next category of “all weather” PENTAX lenses is designated “WR”. These affordable lenses utilize a simplified weather-resistant construction (similar to the sealing technology used in DA* lenses) which makes it difficult for water to enter the lens.

PENTAX WR lenses are categorized weather-resistant.

And this is their language today:

TOUGH CONSTRUCTION FOR STRESS-FREE SHOOTING IN ALL PLACES & ALL KINDS OF WEATHER

The first ever PENTAX SLR camera with a dustproof and weather-resistant construction that shuts out water droplets and dust was the PENTAX LX launched in 1980. This know-how was utilized over the years to develop and sell many dustproof and weather-resistant products. PENTAX camera bodies aren’t the only product with this construction, but accessories are also weather-resistant, including lenses and flash units. Just enjoy shooting outdoors without ever worrying about the weather.

[speagles2]

Yep, that's certainly pretty clear and unambiguous messaging from Pentax - including the fact that the soggy K-30 in the 'never take a rain check' photo is sitting in a puddle of water, which I think was one of the things that's been discussed in this thread as obviously a bridge too far. Like yucatanPentax, I'm a bit deflated to think that Pentax won't stand by these claims, as one of the things I've enjoyed about owning Pentax kit over the years has been not worrying about occasionally shooting in the rain.

[clackers]

Sorry for the consecutive posts. Where did I get the idea about my K-30 being safe in the rain?

You certainly didn't get it from the K-30 warranty, reproduced below, yucatanPentax!

You certainly didn't get it from the internationally understood rating for any waterproof product, the IP rating - because it does *not* have one, it was never certified.

If you want to believe aspirational advertising - that you will take pictures as good as the Pentax ambassadors if you buy their product - that's another matter, IMHO. I believe in specifications and printed terms and conditions.

I have a K-30 myself. It's weather sealed. That's true. It can be used in all kinds of conditions another camera couldn't, that's true. I've done it many times, it's been rained on and had snow heaped on it.

But that was always at my *own* risk.

It's not certified as waterproof to any international standard. I understand that. I know no camera is, you have to put it inside a custom case - that itself is only waterproof if you check the seals, lubricate them before each immersion, and replace them annually because they shrink over time.

[yucatanPentax]

You certainly didn't get it from the K-30 warranty, reproduced below, yucatanPentax!

You certainly didn't get it from the internationally understood rating for any waterproof product, the IP rating - because it does *not* have one, it was never certified.

If you want to believe aspirational advertising - that you will take pictures as good as the Pentax ambassadors if you buy their product - that's another matter, IMHO. I believe in specifications and printed terms and conditions.

I have a K-30 myself. It's weather sealed. That's true. It can be used in all kinds of conditions another camera couldn't, that's true. I've done it many times, it's been rained on and had snow heaped on it.

But that was always at my *own* risk.

It's not certified as waterproof to any international standard. I understand that. I know no camera is, you have to put it inside a custom case - that itself is only waterproof if you check the seals, lubricate them before each immersion, and replace them annually because they shrink over time.

I'm certainly not arguing with anything you wrote, but those weren't just media ads. The very clear statements appeared on the Ricoh Imaging website.

Very interestingly, no such claims are made today on the K-3iii. They will go as far as "weather-resistant," but not "sealed" or "proof" or any of the other language "never take a rain check" that they used in the past.

My main point, I guess, as I was checking for myself how my ideas ever got into my head after reading your various comments and those of others, was that... "Huh, Pentax did tell us these things."

They had a White Paper posted for us on the weather-beating qualities of cameras and lenses. A White Paper is a bit stronger than a loose-with-words advertisement. Their own website, unambiguous about the abilities of their equipment, is a little closer to home than a magazine spread or any random YouTube guy.

I just wanted to know how I got all these ideas about Pentax' great weather-beating abilities, when you all in this thread had educated us otherwise. And I see I got my ideas directly from Pentax itself. I'm betting the "sand and water" video guy got his ideas from Pentax itself as well. What's his user name here, btw? Does he still post?

Interesting.