[MarkJerling]

There's a reason why I stopped buying anything from Pentax. It's too bad, because I love the engineering and the fact that it appears they're going to be the only ones making DSLR's any more. But the fact that their manufacturing isn't up to snuff, choice of materials has demonstated deficiencies coupled (three lenses fell apart because of the flimsy internal plastic parts the self-tapping screws go into) with the lack of meaningful customer service means there's just no point in taking a gamble that my purchase of very expensive products (my name is not Zuckerber, Gates, or Buffet) from them will just be throwing money down a rat hole.

I always smile when I see you post this. (Because, lets face, it, you've told us this a fair number of times) I mean, it's just the way it is with consumer goods. Some people will have negative experiences, some will have positive.

I've bought, over the last 35 years, probably around 8 Pentax SLRs and DSLRs and, maybe, around 20 lenses, almost all Pentax, but also Sigma and Rokinon.
While I can't speak for the few I have sold, every one of the ones I have still continue to work exactly as the day I've bought them.

The one time my K-1ii needed a repair (and not due to a manufacturing defect, but an accidental bump) the local Pentax agent sent the camera to Japan for repair and recalibration and it came back perfect.

We, unfortunately, live in the era where repair is becoming a thing of the past. Already, when dealing with many consumer goods, this is so. Dishwasher breaks? Often cheaper to replace than to repair. Fridge compressor fails? New one. Car gets a ding? New panel, no-one reshapes a panel anymore. Too many panels and airbags deployed? Car's written off as too expensive to repair. When last have we seen anyone rebuild a steering box or a fuel pump or a water pump? It's all throw away. Most phones now don't even have the option of replacing the battery.

We can bemoan the fact, but it's unlikely to change. Pentax really is no worse than any other consumer goods manufacturer. Although, all my lenses and bodies still work. (Touch wood)

[UncleVanya]

I When last have we seen anyone rebuild a steering box or a fuel pump or a water pump? It's all throw away.

On a related note I was pleasantly surprised when my local Honda independent repair shop told me that they stock the necessary parts to rebuild my 2003 van’s power steering pump rather than replace it. This is an example that runs counter to the trend, acting as the “exception to the rule” it highlights that the trend to replace rather than repair has become so commonplace that I was surprised when they suggested a rebuild vs a replacement.

---------- Post added 10-04-22 at 08:26 AM ----------

I also had a fridge and a stove die last year and amid pandemic related appliance shortages I elected to not repair either but buy used items that were refurbished by a local repair shop. This year I replaced my dryer in the same way. All three appliances in total cost me under $1000 (not each).

[c.a.m]

The entire world has moved towards less repair and more replacement. I don’t think Pentax is unique in this.

I always smile when I see you post this. (Because, lets face, it, you've told us this a fair number of times) I mean, it's just the way it is with consumer goods. Some people will have negative experiences, some will have positive.

I feel some sympathy for @dlhawes. They experienced several similar failures with (large) lenses, and didn't seem to receive much support, if any, from Ricoh Imaging. I believe that other users have also reported problems with the lens barrel screws. So, responding by closing one's wallet to Pentax seems like a reasonable approach in this instance after being burned three times -- although future purchases could work out just fine. The screw issue does seem to be a poor design from the production and serviceability perspectives.

My DA* 50-135mm lens made four trips to the Canadian Pentax repair centre in 2012-13. After the fifth AF/MF issue, I just converted it to screwdrive and got on with my photography. The third repair didn't even make it out of the local camera dealer's shop after they received it -- the lens was squealing like a banshee so I had them return it again. Then, it was just a week past the warranty end-date, which prompted a snarky reply from the Pentax centre about repairing it this one time under a "good will gesture." Geez.

I guess we've all had good and bad experiences with consumer products, repair centres, house maintenance and repair, car service centres, etc. Just yesterday I bought a replacement backing pad for my orbit sander -- the old foam rubber backing had deteriorated with age after 8-10 years. Fortunately, the service shop stocks quite a few replacement parts. $25 vs $125 for a new tool.

My Pentax gear has been faultless for the most part.

- Craig

[UncleVanya]

I feel some sympathy for @dlhawes. They experienced several similar failures with (large) lenses, and didn't seem to receive much support, if any, from Ricoh Imaging. I believe that other users have also reported problems with the lens barrel screws. So, responding by closing one's wallet to Pentax seems like a reasonable approach in this instance after being burned three times -- although future purchases could work out just fine. The screw issue does seem to be a poor design from the production and serviceability perspectives.

My DA* 50-135mm lens made four trips to the Canadian Pentax repair centre in 2012-13. After the fifth AF/MF issue, I just converted it to screwdrive and got on with my photography. The third repair didn't even make it out of the local camera dealer's shop after they received it -- the lens was squealing like a banshee so I had them return it again. Then, it was just a week past the warranty end-date, which prompted a snarky reply from the Pentax centre about repairing it this one time under a "good will gesture." Geez.

I guess we've all had good and bad experiences with consumer products, repair centres, house maintenance and repair, car service centres, etc. Just yesterday I bought a replacement backing pad for my orbit sander -- the old foam rubber backing had deteriorated with age after 8-10 years. Fortunately, the service shop stocks quite a few replacement parts. $25 vs $125 for a new tool.

My Pentax gear has been faultless for the most part.

- Craig

That’s fair. I appreciate that and I expect I’d be angry also. But I hear similar horror stories from other brands.

[c.a.m]

That’s fair. I appreciate that and I expect I’d be angry also. But I hear similar horror stories from other brands.

Like you, I've read, heard or know about issues in other brands.

For example, a friend's digital Leica (M9, I think) needed a new sensor, at a cost to him of around USD $2,000. That was the sensor-corrosion problem, but he was beyond the timing of Leica's 'free' replacement program.

We read about other brands having faults, and problems with repair or servicing. Certainly, jumping to another brand would not guarantee a trouble-free experience. Such is the situation with consumer products, even in LeicaWorld.

I'm grateful for the Pentax SDM screwdrive 'hack', and imagine numerous users of the K-30/50 have appreciated the DIY solenoid repair trick.

I had forgotten that my K-5 (or K-5 II) needed repair to its mirror assembly -- the thing seemed to have detached and was floating around inside the mirror box. The repair was done quickly under warranty, but it was an annoying situation to me nonetheless.


- Craig

[MarkJerling]

I feel some sympathy for @dlhawes....

- Craig

As do I Craig. Apologies if that's not come through in my post.

[c.a.m]

As do I Craig. Apologies if that's not come through in my post.

No worries, Mark. All good.

Your comments about consumer goods prompted me to think about the various things in our house that have had problems. I guess any of us could share similar stories. Where possible, we try to repair items rather than buying new. We bought our replacement clothes washer and dryer partly on the basis of repairability -- American-made Speed Queen appliances that seem relatively easy to open up and fix (except for the module-level electronic controllers). At least I've got half a chance of getting in there with a spanner!

[UncleVanya]

No worries, Mark. All good.

Your comments about consumer goods prompted me to think about the various things in our house that have had problems. I guess any of us could share similar stories. Where possible, we try to repair items rather than buying new. We bought our replacement clothes washer and dryer partly on the basis of repairability -- American-made Speed Queen appliances that seem relatively easy to open up and fix (except for the module-level electronic controllers). At least I've got half a chance of getting in there with a spanner!

They guy I bought the replacement dryer from gave me free delivery because he got to take my old very mechanical dryer away and planned to repair it. He has an entire second career refurbishing dryers and reselling them. I just don’t have the time to open up mine and the replacement was cheap this way. I am frugal and handy but there are times when it’s worth calling a pro. My “new” dryer came with a 90day warranty and he actually came and swapped it three times after the initial delivery (once with a replacement due to a problem, then with the original unit “fixed” and then again with the same replacement when a new problem developed. The unit he took back he said was going to be junked despite being a nicer model as it wasn’t behaving (something in the electronics was flakey) - but he stood by the thing and worked to make us happy. Pretty good for a cheap purchase. The replacement has been perfectly normal and functional.

I reckon I'm having trouble adapting to virtual reliability in the modern world. I want the 1950's back (minus the Korean War, the Truman recession, and the DDT). It's not funny, it's sad.

"True, living in today's complex world of the future is a lot like having bees living in your head. But, there they are!" -- Firesign Theatre

What lenses did you have trouble with?

D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8
DA 560mm F/5.6
I think the other was the D FA 150-450mm F/4.5-5.6, but I can't recall for sure - another of those big long lenses.

That's the thing - the plastic they use to hold the internal stuff together is certainly more than adequate for a 50mm prime, but the teeny-weeny self-tapping screws they use aren't good enough and the plastic's too soft, for the weight they're supposed to hold. And from what I've seen a big problem is over-torquing the screws during initial assembly (stripped threads). I can tolerate stuff like that, but what really offended me was that instead of apologizing and promising to "try harder to do our very best" in proper Japanese fashion, they told me the lenses busted because of "probable impact damage" - and with the 70-200, there was impact but it was caused by the lens having separated with the front part falling off the rear, and in the 650, there never had been any impact, the lens fell into two pieces when I went to pick it up out of its case by its foot.

By the way, all the Pentax stuff I've got, with the exception of the DA* 55 which is in Japan for its third SDM related repair, is in dam'near perfect condition, now. It was a bit like pulling teeth to get it there, though.

[UncleVanya]

D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8
DA 560mm F/5.6
I think the other was the D FA 150-450mm F/4.5-5.6, but I can't recall for sure - another of those big long lenses.

That's the thing - the plastic they use to hold the internal stuff together is certainly more than adequate for a 50mm prime, but the teeny-weeny self-tapping screws they use aren't good enough and the plastic's too soft, for the weight they're supposed to hold. And from what I've seen a big problem is over-torquing the screws during initial assembly (stripped threads). I can tolerate stuff like that, but what really offended me was that instead of apologizing and promising to "try harder to do our very best" in proper Japanese fashion, they told me the lenses busted because of "probable impact damage" - and with the 70-200, there was impact but it was caused by the lens having separated with the front part falling off the rear, and in the 650, there never had been any impact, the lens fell into two pieces when I went to pick it up out of its case by its foot.

That’s pretty terrible. I feel like the outsourcing of repairs to group like Precision has contributed to this lack of responsiveness and blame game. I see similar stories told by others from other brands and they all involve third party repair companies. That doesn’t mean that another company might not be more flexible in accepting that the same type of damage was a failure of their product if escalated to them. I’m sad that Pentax (Ricoh) has lost the customer service mojo they once had. They should have seen that you’re a good customer and that your investment in their products should be rewarded, and not discarded you as a customer. It’s expensive to make new loyal customers and angering one until they leave isn’t good for business. This is even more true in a declining market.

[R.Miller]

Your comments about consumer goods prompted me to think about the various things in our house that have had problems. I guess any of us could share similar stories. Where possible, we try to repair items rather than buying new. We bought our replacement clothes washer and dryer partly on the basis of repairability -- American-made Speed Queen appliances that seem relatively easy to open up and fix (except for the module-level electronic controllers). At least I've got half a chance of getting in there with a spanner!

Another issue we ran into is can you even get parts these days to repair an appliance. We had a three year old Maytag dish washer that the main control board failed. You could not get the board or the control panel and there was no ETA from Maytag on when a replacement may show up. Even the third tier appliance parts shops had nothing in stock. The only ones available were ebay retreads, and the comments were they normally failed within a few months of replacement.

[MarkJerling]

I reckon I'm having trouble adapting to virtual reliability in the modern world. I want the 1950's back (minus the Korean War, the Truman recession, and the DDT). It's not funny, it's sad.

"True, living in today's complex world of the future is a lot like having bees living in your head. But, there they are!" -- Firesign Theatre

You're not alone. I love most 50's cars and music. My 1930's General Electric fridge lasted until a few years back, and a power spike killed it, or it would still happily (if uneconomically) have been cooling my beer.

When I built the pizza oven last year, I used up 3 grinders. Good thing was that I only paid for one. Every time the grinder died I could go exchange it for a new one. Very wasteful though.

The reason I make a lot of noise about it is because I've seen lots of similar complaints from others, as well, and I'm hoping that if Ricoh/Pentax will get the idea that they've got a problem that they can and should fix, they'll do better. My wish is for improvement, not simply badmouthing the company. I couldn't really care less about the company, and no business is worth getting worked up about (and probably not worth the time it takes to complain). But I feel bad about the people who end up getting ripped off because they trusted a company that was not trustworthy. I don't see any difference between Ricoh's fudging about the reasons why they won't do warranty work and the door-to-door scam artist who rips off old ladies on unneeded driveway coatings.

On the other hand, why buy products that need wonderful customer support? I'd rather have stuff that just works reliably. We have a Hamilton-Beach toaster made in the 1940's that still works fine; we recently bought a H-B waffle maker that crapped out the day after the warranty expired.

This phenomenon may be related to another that I've noticed. Licensed professionals such as architects, physicians, plumbers & lawyers, who deal with the general public (i.e., wage-earning workers) know perfectly well that the people they deal with can't afford to pay what it would cost for them to do the kind of professional work that they're supposed to be licensed to do. In theory, a "profession" is not a "business" because of the difference in the level of skill and judgment required by the practice of a profession, which is supposed to be applied regardless of any money involved. But those who serve the masses have to be "economical" in the provision of services because they know they're not going to get paid to compensate them for doing first-rate work. They need to move the clients through and get what they can from each, just to be "middle class" like their "peers" who have better-paying clients. I know one lawyer who spends upwards of $70,000 per year on local print advertising for defense in petty crime cases. He charges his clients what he'd charge them if he had to do the work to prepare for a real trial (but less than a really good and effective lawyer would charge), but on the day of court, he'll always be unprepared and will twist the client's arm with threats of the risk of long jail terms to make the client accept the prosecutor's offer of a plea-bargain. All he really does for what he charges is stand up and plead his clients guilty; most of the time, I think he doesn't even know whether they really are guilty or not. He does three or four plea bargains on the same day, which proves my point - if he'd had to be prepared for trial, he'd be able to do one or two in one day depending on the facts of the cases, and the fact that he has a deal with the prosecutor that he comes in on a particular day of the week to do all his cases is proof that he never had any intention of going to trial. He's locally considered a "good lawyer" because his clients almost never go to jail. It doesn't occur to the clients that it can actually be worse to have the conviction on your record than it would be to risk a trial on the merits. That's actually pretty common, about 98% of all criminal cases in the U.S. are settled by plea-bargains, not trials. An efficient system if all you're interested in is efficiency, since most plea bargainst actually end with a disposition very similar to what the defendant would have gotten after a trial. Justice, well, that costs extra.

I'll bet Ricoh has a pretty good system of customer support for its industrial products, specialized dental cameras and such big money products, made for non-consumer people who can afford to pay extra.

[DeadJohn]

When I built the pizza oven last year, I used up 3 grinders. Good thing was that I only paid for one. Every time the grinder died I could go exchange it for a new one. Very wasteful though.

I didn't know Harbor Freight was in New Zealand They are the USA home for junk tools, but their new stuff can cost less than renting a tool for one day from a rental shop so they serve a purpose.