[stevebrot]

My hands on Nikon experience is from ages ago, but a d50 could fire a manual flash at any speed, and with a rear curtain sync option. It happened to have an electronic shutter and could sync reliably and evenly at 1/1000sec with cheap radio triggers. I wouldn't expect anything this reliable without an electronic shutter, but ehh, let us take the risk.

Electronic shutter on the D50? It had a vertical run electro-mechanical shutter, but I don't believe that there was an on-sensor electronic shutter in the current sense of the term. That being said, the magic words were that it would fire the flash at all shutter speeds. That capability provides for a wide range of experimentation.


Steve

[stevebrot]

But I am unable to get the speedlight into wireless mode and HS at the same time because you need to have the cameras built in flash popped up for wireless mode to work. As soon as this is popped up, the max shutter is 180

Two HSS capable flashes? Strangely, HSS was apparently supported on the built-in flash of some bodies. At least the AF 540 FGZ user manual describes using such on p 46ff.


Steve

[banep]

What about dirty old trick to control other speedlights or studio lights as an optical slaves of camera mounted HSS flash like FGZ540?
Anybody tried that to break sync speed?
Distance is very limited but it is possible.

[BrianR]

Electronic shutter on the D50? It had a vertical run electro-mechanical shutter, but I don't believe that there was an on-sensor electronic shutter in the current sense of the term. That being said, the magic words were that it would fire the flash at all shutter speeds. That capability provides for a wide range of experimentation.

That could be, it was a few years back that I looked into the explanation. It was a little bit of magic though, not just fire but it would sync shockingly well beyond it's rated x-sync. Tiny viewfinder compared to my k100d at the time, I think that would have annoyed me

[clackers]

But I am unable to get the speedlight into wireless mode and HS at the same time because you need to have the cameras built in flash popped up for wireless mode to work. As soon as this is popped up, the max shutter is 180

Yep, put on another HSS speedlight and you're good to go.

[shardulm]

I saw a guy at an event experimenting with some nikon and a manual flash with high speed shutter (faster than sync speed). He was constantly complaining that his pictures had black border in the bottom and kept increasing in size with increased shutter speed. He was frustrated and eventually stopped and decided to return the flash calling it defective (LOL).
Jokes apart. .. no one seems to be talking about the flash duration. Flash duration is the amount of time the flash puts out the specified light (a specification we rarely ever bother to see on flashes/strobes). This time is usually much shorter than the second (rear) curtain can finish the exposure in higher shutter speed situations.
If shutter speed higher than sync speed are used then the second curtain causes dark bottom borders which are undesired. One has to (HAS TO) use HSS (increased flash duration until theflash stays popped and the second curtain does not get in the way) built into p-TTL or i-TTL flashes. HSS mode keeps your flash turned ON longer than the standard pop duration.
Electronically speaking this means the capacitor that causes the arc should be discharged at a slower rate than the standard pop rate. This is achieved by increased resistance between the capacitor and the arc element. The side effect is reduced current and hence reduced intensity but longer duration. A side effect that makes HSS give out much less light than a standard pop. The higher the shutter speed the longer the flash duration needed and hence lesser the intensity. That's why HSS mode does not give you 100% of the rated flash power ever no matter what make or model of flash it is.

Pentax secures the users from obtaining bad exposures by ceiling the sync speed to 1/180s or 1/200s (K-1). This is a limitation introduced by the physical size (height) of the sensor, mechanical focal plane shutters and the external flash's pop duration, not by Pentax. Pentax is just making sure you don't end up in a soup.
Now about the claim that other manufacturers support higher sync speeds is to be investigated. This is not possible with a mechanical focal plane shutter unless specialized strobes supporting HSS are used or some sort of electronic shutter are used that bypasses mechanical focal plane shutters altogether (theory). Higher x-sync speed even 1/250s is a marketing gimmick and does not work with standard strobes that do not support HSS.
5diii explained here (Canon DLC: Blog Post: Ultimate control of flash outdoors using High Speed Sync)

or d810 explained here (Understanding Nikon’s Auto FP High-Speed Flash Sync Mode | Master Your Nikon®)

I don't understand this fuss about other manufacturers supporting higher sync speeds. Well not without HSS mode call it AutoFP or whatever.

[clackers]

Yeah, the actual duration of flash is like 1/1000s at full power to 1/10000s cranked down. HSS emulates extending this duration. Pentax offers this just as the other manufacturers do.

[lister6520]

Maybe has already been mentioned, but if it can do 1/200 in full frame it should be able to do 1/300 in crop mode.
It is something very easily implemented in the camera firmware with no changes to the flash itself but does anyone know if they actually put in that feature?

Also, is there any mention of overriding the 'safety feature' that protects us from the perils of triggering a flash with a shutter speed higher than the sync speed?

[jacobmin]

Yep, put on another HSS speedlight and you're good to go.

I have a AF540 and a AF360. With the 540 attached to the camera in HSS mode and the 360 off camera in TTL Wireless Slave mode, the 360 does not fire. I think this issue is when the 540 is in HSS mode, the option to select wireless master in not available. S I have still yet to get the HSS to work off camera even though the 540/360 manual says its possible on page 41 on my manual. Maybe its just not possible with the k5iis. Hopefully it will be possible with the K-1 because their is no on camera pop up flash.

[enoeske]

I have a AF540 and a AF360. With the 540 attached to the camera in HSS mode and the 360 off camera in TTL Wireless Slave mode, the 360 does not fire. I think this issue is when the 540 is in HSS mode, the option to select wireless master in not available. S I have still yet to get the HSS to work off camera even though the 540/360 manual says its possible on page 41 on my manual. Maybe its just not possible with the k5iis. Hopefully it will be possible with the K-1 because their is no on camera pop up flash.

It should work. You may not be following the directions correctly.

Wireless Shooting Using a Combination of External Flash Units

1
Set the wireless mode of the external flash directly
connected to the camera to [MASTER] or [CONTROL].

MASTER
Discharges both the flash directly connected to the
camera and the wireless flash unit as the main flash.

CONTROL
Discharges the flash directly connected to the camera as
a control flash only, not as the main flash.

2
On the wireless remote flash unit, set the wireless flash
mode to [SLAVE] and set the channel to the same channel
as the flash directly connected to the camera. Then, place
it at the desired location.
3
Confirm that both flashes are fully charged and then take
a picture.

• The Shake Reduction function is automatically turned off in wireless mode.
• When using multiple AF540FGZ/AF360FGZ external flashes and performing
high-speed flash sync shooting in wireless mode, set the flash directly
connected to the camera to high-speed flash sync mode.
• When the wireless mode of the external flash directly connected to the
camera is set to [MASTER] or [21. Flash in Wireless Mode] (p.172) is set to
[On] for the built-in flash, all the flashes will discharge simultaneousl

[jacobmin]

It should work. You may not be following the directions correctly.

Wireless Shooting Using a Combination of External Flash Units

1
Set the wireless mode of the external flash directly
connected to the camera to [MASTER] or [CONTROL].

MASTER
Discharges both the flash directly connected to the
camera and the wireless flash unit as the main flash.

CONTROL
Discharges the flash directly connected to the camera as
a control flash only, not as the main flash.

2
On the wireless remote flash unit, set the wireless flash
mode to [SLAVE] and set the channel to the same channel
as the flash directly connected to the camera. Then, place
it at the desired location.
3
Confirm that both flashes are fully charged and then take
a picture.

• The Shake Reduction function is automatically turned off in wireless mode.
• When using multiple AF540FGZ/AF360FGZ external flashes and performing
high-speed flash sync shooting in wireless mode, set the flash directly
connected to the camera to high-speed flash sync mode.
• When the wireless mode of the external flash directly connected to the
camera is set to [MASTER] or [21. Flash in Wireless Mode] (p.172) is set to
[On] for the built-in flash, all the flashes will discharge simultaneousl

Finally! I got it to work! I almost gave up.

[sculptor666]

thanks for posting this, enoeske!

It should work. You may not be following the directions correctly.

Wireless Shooting Using a Combination of External Flash Units

1
Set the wireless mode of the external flash directly
connected to the camera to [MASTER] or [CONTROL].

MASTER
Discharges both the flash directly connected to the
camera and the wireless flash unit as the main flash.

CONTROL
Discharges the flash directly connected to the camera as
a control flash only, not as the main flash.

2
On the wireless remote flash unit, set the wireless flash
mode to [SLAVE] and set the channel to the same channel
as the flash directly connected to the camera. Then, place
it at the desired location.
3
Confirm that both flashes are fully charged and then take
a picture.

• The Shake Reduction function is automatically turned off in wireless mode.
• When using multiple AF540FGZ/AF360FGZ external flashes and performing
high-speed flash sync shooting in wireless mode, set the flash directly
connected to the camera to high-speed flash sync mode.
• When the wireless mode of the external flash directly connected to the
camera is set to [MASTER] or [21. Flash in Wireless Mode] (p.172) is set to
[On] for the built-in flash, all the flashes will discharge simultaneousl

[stevebrot]

Jokes apart. .. no one seems to be talking about the flash duration.

I think I did

Though to be fair, most flash of moderate intensity have fairly short duration even when shooting full strength.


Steve

[stevebrot]

if it can do 1/200 in full frame it should be able to do 1/300 in crop mode.

You might be on to something here, though it would depend on how they implement the X-sync and the actual slit width at 1/300s (i.e. whether the leading curtain fully clears the cropped frame before the trailing curtain enters).

Also, is there any mention of overriding the 'safety feature' that protects us from the perils of triggering a flash with a shutter speed higher than the sync speed?

In a word...no. That does not mean the feature won't be present at release or with some future firmware version.


Steve