Crop settings & 1:1

**RGlasel** · 05-02-2016, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

1:1 is trendy now. In a few years it will be passé.

It's the revenge of the Philistines, anyone with an appreciation for artistic beauty and design knows that a square needs to be placed inside a visual container with unequal proportions, squares are unbearably crude by themselves. If the Golden Ratio was good enough for Euclid, it is good enough for me. 1:1 might work for a Cyclops, but it is unnatural for anyone with stereoscopic vision.

thibs · 05-02-2016, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by RGlasel

1:1 might work for a Cyclops, but it is unnatural for anyone with stereoscopic vision.

On what good authority? Just because?
I must not be everyone. Ouch.

**monochrome** · 05-02-2016, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by thibs

@Monochrome: I don't think so. It was always limited to 6x6 mostly and it is quite difficult to frame. But done well, it kills other formats IMO

(YMMV of course)

Well, I was on the front side of the film plane and I've never handled a 6x7, so. . . My bad.

Not a Number · 05-02-2016, 11:53 AM

I haven't shot 1:1 since I stopped using my 127 film Kodak Flashfun Hawkeye camera in the late 60s and Polaroid cameras in the mid-70s.

rawr · 05-02-2016, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

automated crop on import for tools like Lightroom

This can't be fully automated in LR yet, unless I am missing something.

I guess one would first manually create a preset for the crop ratio you want, then save that preset, then apply that preset upon import to a copy of the image in LR. And hope that LR applies the preset crop to the correct area of the full image.

Not a Number · 05-02-2016, 07:15 PM

It's easy enough to do a batch crop in Adobe Bridge or create a macro/script in Photoshop. I've done it both ways.

Wheatfield · 05-02-2016, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by thibs

Any confirmation if 1:1 square crop is enabled in production firmware?

Thanks.

Not that I've seen. I picked my K1 up this afternoon and have been through the entire menu several time. I think people who want 1:1 or any other crop will have to do it the hard way.

rawr · 05-02-2016, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

It's easy enough to do a batch crop in Adobe Bridge or create a macro/script in Photoshop.

But Lightroom?

Also if, for example, you want a 1:1 crop, how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre, not at the dead centre of the frame, for example?

**Wheatridger** · 05-02-2016, 08:30 PM

A big fan of the old 1:1 here. It's hip to be square. Working with a 6x6 Rolleiflex taught me that long ago. The format lends strength to compositions of three main elements, forming an unbalanced dynamic that pushes and pulls against the balance and repose of the square. Yes, we talked like that back in art school.

**RGlasel** · 05-02-2016, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by rawr

how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre

I thought I read somewhere else that the mind-reading brush will be a new feature for LR 7.

Moving the 1:1 crop overlay away from centre with a mouse is a pretty straightforward process, but left to its own devices, LR does seems to centre the overlay to the centre of the image. I'm guessing the developers of LR just made the assumption that anyone who wants to move the crop overlay from the centre of the image is manually processing their images.

Perhaps I missed a sarcasm tag, but the company here that does tens of thousands of school pictures has someone visually check the cropping for the different print sizes offered and make manual adjustments to avoid unintended haircuts when they switch from 4x6 to 5x7 for instance. There is a point where automation is a hindrance, not a help.

kvetcha · 05-02-2016, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by rawr

But Lightroom?

Also if, for example, you want a 1:1 crop, how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre, not at the dead centre of the frame, for example?

Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others.

Wheatfield · 05-02-2016, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by kvetcha

Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others.

I get the feeling that some people would be happier with a robot that they can send out to take pictures for them while they sit on the couch watching Oprah reruns.
People, some of this stuff requires user intervention.
It's called the creative process.
Is it really that hard to frame a picture and then crop it in post?

rawr · 05-02-2016, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by kvetcha

Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others.

That's true. But still very manual.

Ideally, I guess, as you import the image RAW, LR would read the camera EXIF and only show in Library mode the cropped image, including if applicable the ratio (eg 1:1) that was used when LiveView was used to frame the shot.

I wonder if the LiveView crop framing perspective is recorded in the EXIF? If yes, that info could certainly be accessible for scripting.

---------- Post added 2016-05-03 at 02:46 PM ----------

Originally posted by Wheatfield

...
Is it really that hard to frame a picture and then crop it in post?

It doesn't bother me, since I don't use fancy crops like 1:1.

But if you were processing 200 shots (school portraits or something, perhaps), some automation would be handy.

Not a Number · 05-02-2016, 09:48 PM

I don't use LightRoom, never had and know for nothing about it.

Adobe Bridge you select the RAW files you want to work on in the browser and open them in Bridge. Click select all. Apply the crop any any other adjustments you want. Click "synchronize", check "crop" and any other adjustments you want applied to all selected. Click "appy/ok". Click "done". Then run image processing from Bridge to develop the RAWs

thibs · 05-02-2016, 09:57 PM

Well, try to frame a square picture in rectangular one.
Crop lines in VF are the absolute minimum otherwise yoill is the target or do it fuzzy way.

We don't use a DSLR with glass prism and 100% FoV to frame a picture +/-10% and crop it later in post. My smartphone is there for such uses.
I'm sorry but there's no point in framing if I have to do the job again. The creative process is supposed to happen when taking the picture not ad an after thought because I framed 4:3 and botched it so I 1:1 will kind of make it not too bad.

Well, YMMV of course, this is just me.

---------- Post added 03-05-16 at 05:58 ----------

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Not that I've seen. I picked my K1 up this afternoon and have been through the entire menu several time. I think people who want 1:1 or any other crop will have to do it the hard way.

Thanks for checking !

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05-02-2016, 10:01 AM	#16
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	Originally posted by monochrome 1:1 is trendy now. In a few years it will be passé. It's the revenge of the Philistines, anyone with an appreciation for artistic beauty and design knows that a square needs to be placed inside a visual container with unequal proportions, squares are unbearably crude by themselves. If the Golden Ratio was good enough for Euclid, it is good enough for me. 1:1 might work for a Cyclops, but it is unnatural for anyone with stereoscopic vision.

05-02-2016, 10:47 AM	#17
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Originally posted by RGlasel 1:1 might work for a Cyclops, but it is unnatural for anyone with stereoscopic vision. On what good authority? Just because? I must not be everyone. Ouch.

05-02-2016, 11:44 AM	#18
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by thibs @Monochrome: I don't think so. It was always limited to 6x6 mostly and it is quite difficult to frame. But done well, it kills other formats IMO (YMMV of course) Well, I was on the front side of the film plane and I've never handled a 6x7, so. . . My bad.

05-02-2016, 11:53 AM	#19
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	I haven't shot 1:1 since I stopped using my 127 film Kodak Flashfun Hawkeye camera in the late 60s and Polaroid cameras in the mid-70s.

05-02-2016, 07:10 PM	#20
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by stevebrot automated crop on import for tools like Lightroom This can't be fully automated in LR yet, unless I am missing something. I guess one would first manually create a preset for the crop ratio you want, then save that preset, then apply that preset upon import to a copy of the image in LR. And hope that LR applies the preset crop to the correct area of the full image.

05-02-2016, 07:15 PM	#21
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	It's easy enough to do a batch crop in Adobe Bridge or create a macro/script in Photoshop. I've done it both ways.

05-02-2016, 07:21 PM	#22
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by thibs Any confirmation if 1:1 square crop is enabled in production firmware? Thanks. Not that I've seen. I picked my K1 up this afternoon and have been through the entire menu several time. I think people who want 1:1 or any other crop will have to do it the hard way.

05-02-2016, 07:24 PM	#23
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Not a Number It's easy enough to do a batch crop in Adobe Bridge or create a macro/script in Photoshop. But Lightroom? Also if, for example, you want a 1:1 crop, how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre, not at the dead centre of the frame, for example?

05-02-2016, 08:30 PM	#24
Wheatridger Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Colorado Front Range Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 644	A big fan of the old 1:1 here. It's hip to be square. Working with a 6x6 Rolleiflex taught me that long ago. The format lends strength to compositions of three main elements, forming an unbalanced dynamic that pushes and pulls against the balance and repose of the square. Yes, we talked like that back in art school.

05-02-2016, 08:30 PM	#25
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	Originally posted by rawr how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre I thought I read somewhere else that the mind-reading brush will be a new feature for LR 7. Moving the 1:1 crop overlay away from centre with a mouse is a pretty straightforward process, but left to its own devices, LR does seems to centre the overlay to the centre of the image. I'm guessing the developers of LR just made the assumption that anyone who wants to move the crop overlay from the centre of the image is manually processing their images. Perhaps I missed a sarcasm tag, but the company here that does tens of thousands of school pictures has someone visually check the cropping for the different print sizes offered and make manual adjustments to avoid unintended haircuts when they switch from 4x6 to 5x7 for instance. There is a point where automation is a hindrance, not a help.

05-02-2016, 08:31 PM	#26
kvetcha Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 92	Originally posted by rawr But Lightroom? Also if, for example, you want a 1:1 crop, how do you tell the import process that you want the 1:1 crop to apply 10 degrees to the left of the image centre, not at the dead centre of the frame, for example? Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others.

05-02-2016, 09:28 PM	#27
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by kvetcha Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others. I get the feeling that some people would be happier with a robot that they can send out to take pictures for them while they sit on the couch watching Oprah reruns. People, some of this stuff requires user intervention. It's called the creative process. Is it really that hard to frame a picture and then crop it in post?

05-02-2016, 09:43 PM	#28
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by kvetcha Easy enough to make the change on one image and paste the crop settings to the others. That's true. But still very manual. Ideally, I guess, as you import the image RAW, LR would read the camera EXIF and only show in Library mode the cropped image, including if applicable the ratio (eg 1:1) that was used when LiveView was used to frame the shot. I wonder if the LiveView crop framing perspective is recorded in the EXIF? If yes, that info could certainly be accessible for scripting. ---------- Post added 2016-05-03 at 02:46 PM ---------- Originally posted by Wheatfield ... Is it really that hard to frame a picture and then crop it in post? It doesn't bother me, since I don't use fancy crops like 1:1. But if you were processing 200 shots (school portraits or something, perhaps), some automation would be handy.

05-02-2016, 09:48 PM	#29
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	I don't use LightRoom, never had and know for nothing about it. Adobe Bridge you select the RAW files you want to work on in the browser and open them in Bridge. Click select all. Apply the crop any any other adjustments you want. Click "synchronize", check "crop" and any other adjustments you want applied to all selected. Click "appy/ok". Click "done". Then run image processing from Bridge to develop the RAWs

05-02-2016, 09:57 PM	#30
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Well, try to frame a square picture in rectangular one. Crop lines in VF are the absolute minimum otherwise yoill is the target or do it fuzzy way. We don't use a DSLR with glass prism and 100% FoV to frame a picture +/-10% and crop it later in post. My smartphone is there for such uses. I'm sorry but there's no point in framing if I have to do the job again. The creative process is supposed to happen when taking the picture not ad an after thought because I framed 4:3 and botched it so I 1:1 will kind of make it not too bad. Well, YMMV of course, this is just me. ---------- Post added 03-05-16 at 05:58 ---------- Originally posted by Wheatfield Not that I've seen. I picked my K1 up this afternoon and have been through the entire menu several time. I think people who want 1:1 or any other crop will have to do it the hard way. Thanks for checking !