[Doundounba]

Hi all,

So I hope no one's planning to shoot manual flash in liveview mode on the K-1...

I'm not a K-1 owner, but I played with one today at Lozeau, one of the larger photo stores in Montreal, where the K-1 has landed. I wanted to see how the K-1's behavior compares with my K-3. Result: I believe they behave exactly the same. Meaning that (unless I missed something) it's impossible, in liveview, to disable exposure preview in the LCD screen. In fact, the K-1 goes further than the K-3. While the K-3 will only dim the LCD by up to -2 eV when it thinks your shot will be underexposed, the K-1 goes at least to -5 eV, and an almost totally black screen. The impossibility to turn this off is very irritating when shooting manual flash in liveview! In such circumstances, the camera artificially dims the LCD because it thinks the shot will be underexposed. But it won't, since the (manual) flash will fire!

With the K-3, I run into this all the time shooting macro in liveview with a manual (Yongnuo) flash. The artificial dimming of the LCD is really irritating (see a previous discussion). On the K-3, the only workaround I know of is to set aperture using the aperture ring on the lens rather than controlling it from the body. (Of course, this assumes you're using a lens with an aperture ring. Otherwise you are S.O.L..) Setting the aperture with the aperture ring disables exposure "preview" in liveview mode on the K-3. I did not have a chance today to test if this workaround also works on the K-1, but I would think it probably does. Of course, this workaround has drawbacks: 1) No aperture value in the EXIF, and 2) often there are fewer stops on the aperture ring than possible values when controlling aperture from the body.

So, Pentax, if you're reading this, please allow the option to disable exposure preview in liveview mode on your new flagship camera. This should be a simple firmware fix.

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Last edited by Doundounba; 05-03-2016 at 01:00 PM.

[disasterfilm]

Hmm, I'm sorry to hear that that's an issue.

I don't have a K-3 so I'm just spit-balling here... what if you set your camera to manual mode and maintained your exposure trio exactly as you planned - but to prevent the dimming, you used the exposure compensation function to trick the camera into thinking that its native (non-flash) state isn't as underexposed as it thinks it is?

Example:
You have a setting where you are adding +3 stops of exposure by flash.
When preparing the shot, the live view meter thinks you are at -3, so it applies the dimming you mentioned.
If you incorporate an exposure compensation of -2, it doesn't change your manual exposure settings, but the live view meter will only think you're -1 under proper exposure, thanks to the exp.comp.

Have you tried that? Obviously it isn't going to solve all situations like exclusion of ambient light by overpowering with strobes, but maybe it's a stopgap?

[Adam]

Doesn't exposure preview go away in M mode though?

[Doundounba]

You have a setting where you are adding +3 stops of exposure by flash.
When preparing the shot, the live view meter thinks you are at -3, so it applies the dimming you mentioned.
If you incorporate an exposure compensation of -2, it doesn't change your manual exposure settings, but the live view meter will only think you're -1 under proper exposure, thanks to the exp.comp.

No dice on K-3. Dialing in some exposure compensation changes the "eV bar display" but doesn't change the LCD's brightness. But I did not test this on K-1. (BTW, this workaround was also suggested in the previous thread... ;-) )

Doesn't exposure preview go away in M mode though?

Nope. The meter is still active and the camera will tell you if it thinks your manual settings will cause underexposure by dimming the LCD. That's precisely what I'd like to turn off. Tested on K-3 and K-1.

I'll probably go back to Lozeau later this week with a lens that has an aperture ring so I can test the workaround on the K-1...

[disasterfilm]

No dice on K-3. Dialing in some exposure compensation changes the "eV bar display" but doesn't change the LCD's brightness. But I did not test this on K-1. (BTW, this workaround was also suggested in the previous thread... ;-) )

My apologies, I hadn't read the other thread. I should have done that before jumping in and responding.

[stevebrot]

So, Pentax, if you're reading this, please allow the option to disable exposure preview in liveview mode on your new flagship camera. This should be a simple firmware fix.

Everything is a simple firmware fix

I was not sure what you mean by "exposure preview" and it took me a few trips through your post to realize that you are talking about the automated dimming/brightening of the LCD that provides an estimate of over/under exposure due to intentional over/under exposure.

For the understanding of folk who don't use manual flash, flash exposure is done by balancing flash intensity against lens aperture. It is not unusual to shoot at f/11 and 1/60s and if shooting in Live View, the viewfinder becomes very dim as a result. This is a huge issue for those using the rear LCD or a field monitor for flash-illuminated macro or even on-tripod studio work.

Ideally, Pentax should provide the means to disable this feature. I agree with Doundounba that this is a setting that should be very easy to implement in firmware and should be added to the list of bugs, problems, and operational issues being forwarded to Ricoh to be addressed in future firmware revisions.


Steve

[Adam]

Nope. The meter is still active and the camera will tell you if it thinks your manual settings will cause underexposure by dimming the LCD. That's precisely what I'd like to turn off. Tested on K-3 and K-1.

Oops, looks like I misunderstood what you meant.

Pentax changed the K-3 and later to reflect the actual exposure in M mode in live view, which is something people had been requesting for a while. I agree that having a setting to toggle this behavior would be nice.

Try this workaround, though: put the camera in TAv mode and limit the auto ISO to a narrow range. Does the LV exposure remain constant in that mode?

Adam
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[Doundounba]

I was not sure what you mean by "exposure preview" and it took me a few trips through your post to realize that you are talking about the automated dimming/brightening of the LCD that provides an estimate of over/under exposure due to intentional over/under exposure.

Right, sorry I wasn't clear. I mean the "feature" whereby the brightness of the LCD screen in liveview reflects whether your settings will produce under/over-exposure. So an under-exposed shot results in a dimmer rear LCD. Only it won't actually be under-exposed if you're shooting manual flash...

For the understanding of folk who don't use manual flash, flash exposure is done by balancing flash intensity against lens aperture. It is not unusual to shoot at f/11 and 1/60s and if shooting in Live View, the LCD becomes very dim as a result. This is a huge issue for those using the rear LCD or a field monitor for flash-illuminated macro or even on-tripod studio work.

Exactly.

Try this workaround, though: put the camera in TAv mode and limit the auto ISO to a narrow range. Does the LV exposure remain constant in that mode?

Very cool! Seems to work on the K-3! I tried a situation where in M mode, the camera thought 1/160s, F/2.8 and iso 250 was properly exposed. I then switched to TAv with 1/160s, F/2.8 and a possible iso range of 200-250. I then proceeded to smaller apertures (larger aperture values) and the LCD display did NOT get any dimmer. I will definitely go back to test this on the K-1 in the store, unless a K-1 owner gets to it before I do and reports here... Looks like this is a viable workaround! Thank you!

[Adam]

Very cool! Seems to work on the K-3! I tried a situation where in M mode, the camera thought 1/160s, F/2.8 and iso 250 was properly exposed in M-mode. I then switch to TAv with 1/160s, F/2.8 and a possible iso range of 200-250. I then proceeded to smaller apertures (larger aperture values) and the LCD display did NOT get any dimmer. I will definitely go back to test this on the K-1 in the store, unless a K-1 owner gets to it before I do and reports here... Looks like this is a viable workaround!

That's great! I'm sure it will also work on the K-1.

[stevebrot]

Very cool! Seems to work on the K-3! I tried a situation where in M mode, the camera thought 1/160s, F/2.8 and iso 250 was properly exposed.

Very COOL!

I will have to remember this one.


Steve

[rawr]

I will have to remember this one.

Certainly looks like a setting worth saving as a User Mode, if you do lots of manual flash and LiveView.

Agreed that this LV behaviour should be under user control [LiveView Exposure Dimming On | Off | Auto] in the K-3 and later firmware.

[tomas.paier]

I have the same issue on K-S2 and I confirm that the TAv method (read: hack) works well on K-S2 fw 1.11, it solves effectively the problem, with the only minor issue that you are not able to use ISO100 (the narrowest option is setting ISO 100-200 -- so the camera will use ISO200 as it is convinced there is low light) -- I can live with it. Thanks you!
However, if someone from Ricoh is reading this thread, a firmware update with clear option for disabling the "exposure preview" feature will be highly appreciated.

[Doundounba]

So, for the record, the TAv workaround also works on the K-1. I tested it today at a local store.

[sstrijak]

Also confirmed the workaround works on K-1 Mark II. Tested today. You do get to have 200 as your minimum possible max auto ISO. So my settings were Tav, 200 max auto ISO, aperture and shutter as required

[yuenslhk]

you can use X Mode to use this function on K-1/K-1 II