Pixel Shift in LR CC?

loco · 05-11-2016, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

When exporting as TIFF, I exported the 16 bit version and they are as huge as the RAW files. Is the pixel shift already performed or does Lightroom/ACR detect them as in need of "pixel shifting"?

It appeared the pixel shift is performed in PDCU. So when you save the image with processing from PDCU as a 16 bit TIFF, it is already pixel shifted when you import it into LR. At least it certainly looked that way to me.

Unregistered User · 05-11-2016, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by loco

It appeared the pixel shift is performed in PDCU. So when you save the image with processing from PDCU as a 16 bit TIFF, it is already pixel shifted when you import it into LR. At least it certainly looked that way to me.

Yes, but is it the DCU processing you see or the Adobe processing you see..

That is my question.

enoeske · 05-11-2016, 07:27 AM

So, am I correct in assuming that LR CC does not support Pixel Shift properly yet? Sounds like everyone is using the supplied Pentax software.

loco · 05-11-2016, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

Yes, but is it the DCU processing you see or the Adobe processing you see..

That is my question.

I may be wrong but I don't think Adobe would know to process a TIFF with pixel shift.

Unregistered User · 05-11-2016, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by loco

I may be wrong but I don't think Adobe would know to process a TIFF with pixel shift.

I am doing my own "testing" right now to see what happens. A TIFF file is the same as a RAW with a different files extention. Maybe the info in the TIFF tells adobe that it is a pixel shift. If I take a normal PEF file and just rename to TIFF it still opens in ACR with the same color etc as if PEF. It applies the sharpening I have told ACR to apply as a base when K-1 PEFs are opened. I do not know, trying to understand this so that I can benefit the most from it. So far everone else is getting wopping results and mine look quite dull.

**Rondec** · 05-11-2016, 08:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I am doing my own "testing" right now to see what happens. A TIFF file is the same as a RAW with a different files extention. Maybe the info in the TIFF tells adobe that it is a pixel shift. If I take a normal PEF file and just rename to TIFF it still opens in ACR with the same color etc as if PEF. It applies the sharpening I have told ACR to apply as a base when K-1 PEFs are opened. I do not know, trying to understand this so that I can benefit the most from it. So far everone else is getting wopping results and mine look quite dull.

If I open a pixel shifted RAW in Lightroom 5, I think it just opens the initial RAW image of the series of 4 and the image looks fine, but nothing spectacular. If I open it in DCU and click on the enable PS button, suddenly the image looks really sharp. I often will do a little tweaking of the image at that point -- bump shadows a little and export it. That's usually all it takes, although I do import the TIFF image to Lightroom and do any adjustment needed. You can try it in combination with any of the image presets in DCU -- landscape seems to bump saturation a fair amount, while natural tends to be more flat.

This is a PS image taken with the DFA 100 macro (full size on Flickr)

Zen4Life · 05-11-2016, 08:26 AM

Keep in mind, when you import a Pentax Pixel-Shifted RAW image into Lightroom, you need to crank up the sharpening amount to very high levels. This adjusts the amount of the pixel-shift blending... If you do not adjust this, it will appear identical to a non-Pixel Shifted version. Just an FYI.

Unregistered User · 05-11-2016, 08:48 AM

ACR and Lightroom do calculate the PS raw file. I can't get the results I see on the forum... from neither software... I see a small difference but not as with the test images that Adam has put up of the landscape... Time to go outdoors for some real world testing.

**wtlwdwgn** · 05-11-2016, 03:41 PM

My posted image had only default LR sharpening and no PP except exposure correction and opening shadows.

**Oakland Rob** · 05-16-2016, 09:56 AM

A TIFF doesn't have the four frames necessary for true pixel shifting. Combining the four in the camera, or in DCU, or in Lr can produce somewhat different results, even aside from motion correction.

I've seen that same odd histogram in DCU. And in DCU if I change the PS settings on Adam's sample DNG nothing changes.

Lr/Adobe can do a great job on PS images but it's the same as with most cameras: the manufacturer's software by default produces an initial rendering of the RAW that's preferable for many users. Unfortunately for me DCU is so slow and buggy that it isn't worth starting there. I can get the same results faster in Lr. And with both K-3II and K-1 PS's I can't see the difference between say Adam's outdoor shots. Studio shots with a target and maybe better lenses might be a better test. dcrawps also produces good results with better motion control.

You need at least Lr 6.1.1 to get PS processed for at least the K-3II PS files; I dunno about the K-1. There's a note about PS next to the K-3II release, but nothing next to the K-1, which I guess can imply it DOES do PS. I assume so since the K-1 samples work that I've tried.

slip · 05-17-2016, 10:59 AM

as far as I read, it is something Adobe needs to address with an update. they recommend you use the Pentax software in the mean time. sorry I deleted the youtube link

Randy

melander · 05-17-2016, 12:54 PM

I was thinking today, if you take a PS image and the sensor is shifted 4 times.
Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution.
So the optical need for a tac sharp image is that the lens can resolve 9 MP.

Am I way of in my resoning? (or as we say in sweden "Am I ridning my bike")

funktionsfrei · 05-17-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by melander

Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution.

No. Somebody must have relocated your bike; you're riding something else.

Why should the lens "see" the sensor with a 4th of it's resolution? What leads you to this idea?

wmmariani · 05-17-2016, 01:22 PM

Is there a way to Batch process the Images in PDCU? .

I have been having the same troubles with light room. My work flow has been to create a scratch disk on my desk top and to select out the PS Images based on file size. The PS files I process individually in PDCU which is slow.. Of many little gripes with the product I have to manually override the camera Picture Settings and return them to Natural before exporting as a tiff. After the PS images are processed I Import the PS Tiffs along with the other DNG files (not copies of the tiffs but normal rez pictures taking in the photo stream) into LR.

This is about the best continuity I can come up with at present.

Unregistered User · 05-17-2016, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by melander

I was thinking today, if you take a PS image and the sensor is shifted 4 times.
Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution.
So the optical need for a tac sharp image is that the lens can resolve 9 MP.

Am I way of in my resoning? (or as we say in sweden "Am I ridning my bike")

No I do not think you are out riding your bike as Palme often was told to do. I think you have merit in that.

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05-11-2016, 07:09 AM	#16
loco Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,846	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 When exporting as TIFF, I exported the 16 bit version and they are as huge as the RAW files. Is the pixel shift already performed or does Lightroom/ACR detect them as in need of "pixel shifting"? It appeared the pixel shift is performed in PDCU. So when you save the image with processing from PDCU as a 16 bit TIFF, it is already pixel shifted when you import it into LR. At least it certainly looked that way to me.

05-11-2016, 07:18 AM	#17
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by loco It appeared the pixel shift is performed in PDCU. So when you save the image with processing from PDCU as a 16 bit TIFF, it is already pixel shifted when you import it into LR. At least it certainly looked that way to me. Yes, but is it the DCU processing you see or the Adobe processing you see.. That is my question.

05-11-2016, 07:27 AM	#18
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136 Original Poster	So, am I correct in assuming that LR CC does not support Pixel Shift properly yet? Sounds like everyone is using the supplied Pentax software.

05-11-2016, 07:29 AM	#19
loco Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,846	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 Yes, but is it the DCU processing you see or the Adobe processing you see.. That is my question. I may be wrong but I don't think Adobe would know to process a TIFF with pixel shift.

05-11-2016, 08:11 AM	#20
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by loco I may be wrong but I don't think Adobe would know to process a TIFF with pixel shift. I am doing my own "testing" right now to see what happens. A TIFF file is the same as a RAW with a different files extention. Maybe the info in the TIFF tells adobe that it is a pixel shift. If I take a normal PEF file and just rename to TIFF it still opens in ACR with the same color etc as if PEF. It applies the sharpening I have told ACR to apply as a base when K-1 PEFs are opened. I do not know, trying to understand this so that I can benefit the most from it. So far everone else is getting wopping results and mine look quite dull.

05-11-2016, 08:25 AM - 1 Like	#21
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I am doing my own "testing" right now to see what happens. A TIFF file is the same as a RAW with a different files extention. Maybe the info in the TIFF tells adobe that it is a pixel shift. If I take a normal PEF file and just rename to TIFF it still opens in ACR with the same color etc as if PEF. It applies the sharpening I have told ACR to apply as a base when K-1 PEFs are opened. I do not know, trying to understand this so that I can benefit the most from it. So far everone else is getting wopping results and mine look quite dull. If I open a pixel shifted RAW in Lightroom 5, I think it just opens the initial RAW image of the series of 4 and the image looks fine, but nothing spectacular. If I open it in DCU and click on the enable PS button, suddenly the image looks really sharp. I often will do a little tweaking of the image at that point -- bump shadows a little and export it. That's usually all it takes, although I do import the TIFF image to Lightroom and do any adjustment needed. You can try it in combination with any of the image presets in DCU -- landscape seems to bump saturation a fair amount, while natural tends to be more flat. This is a PS image taken with the DFA 100 macro (full size on Flickr)

05-11-2016, 08:26 AM	#22
Zen4Life Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 63	Keep in mind, when you import a Pentax Pixel-Shifted RAW image into Lightroom, you need to crank up the sharpening amount to very high levels. This adjusts the amount of the pixel-shift blending... If you do not adjust this, it will appear identical to a non-Pixel Shifted version. Just an FYI.

05-11-2016, 08:48 AM	#23
Unregistered User Guest	ACR and Lightroom do calculate the PS raw file. I can't get the results I see on the forum... from neither software... I see a small difference but not as with the test images that Adam has put up of the landscape... Time to go outdoors for some real world testing.

05-11-2016, 03:41 PM	#24
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,851	My posted image had only default LR sharpening and no PP except exposure correction and opening shadows.

05-16-2016, 09:56 AM	#25
Oakland Rob Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Bay Area California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 798	A TIFF doesn't have the four frames necessary for true pixel shifting. Combining the four in the camera, or in DCU, or in Lr can produce somewhat different results, even aside from motion correction. I've seen that same odd histogram in DCU. And in DCU if I change the PS settings on Adam's sample DNG nothing changes. Lr/Adobe can do a great job on PS images but it's the same as with most cameras: the manufacturer's software by default produces an initial rendering of the RAW that's preferable for many users. Unfortunately for me DCU is so slow and buggy that it isn't worth starting there. I can get the same results faster in Lr. And with both K-3II and K-1 PS's I can't see the difference between say Adam's outdoor shots. Studio shots with a target and maybe better lenses might be a better test. dcrawps also produces good results with better motion control. You need at least Lr 6.1.1 to get PS processed for at least the K-3II PS files; I dunno about the K-1. There's a note about PS next to the K-3II release, but nothing next to the K-1, which I guess can imply it DOES do PS. I assume so since the K-1 samples work that I've tried.

05-17-2016, 10:59 AM	#26
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	as far as I read, it is something Adobe needs to address with an update. they recommend you use the Pentax software in the mean time. sorry I deleted the youtube link Randy

05-17-2016, 12:54 PM	#27
melander Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden, Umea Posts: 876	I was thinking today, if you take a PS image and the sensor is shifted 4 times. Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution. So the optical need for a tac sharp image is that the lens can resolve 9 MP. Am I way of in my resoning? (or as we say in sweden "Am I ridning my bike")

05-17-2016, 01:14 PM	#28
funktionsfrei Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 183	Originally posted by melander Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution. No. Somebody must have relocated your bike; you're riding something else. Why should the lens "see" the sensor with a 4th of it's resolution? What leads you to this idea?

05-17-2016, 01:22 PM	#29
wmmariani New Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1	Is there a way to Batch process the Images in PDCU? . I have been having the same troubles with light room. My work flow has been to create a scratch disk on my desk top and to select out the PS Images based on file size. The PS files I process individually in PDCU which is slow.. Of many little gripes with the product I have to manually override the camera Picture Settings and return them to Natural before exporting as a tiff. After the PS images are processed I Import the PS Tiffs along with the other DNG files (not copies of the tiffs but normal rez pictures taking in the photo stream) into LR. This is about the best continuity I can come up with at present.

05-17-2016, 01:46 PM	#30
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by melander I was thinking today, if you take a PS image and the sensor is shifted 4 times. Then the lens sees the sensor as a 4th of its actuall resolution. So the optical need for a tac sharp image is that the lens can resolve 9 MP. Am I way of in my resoning? (or as we say in sweden "Am I ridning my bike") No I do not think you are out riding your bike as Palme often was told to do. I think you have merit in that.