Isn't K-1 crop mode a good place to allow flash with shutter speed faster than 1/200?

jake14mw · 06-09-2016, 08:21 AM - **1 Like**

OK, I'm back on my bandwagon again of Pentax allowing us to trigger a flash at a shutter speed faster than the sync speed and deal with any resulting black bars.

Firstly, I know about High Speed Synch mode. I'm not talking about that. There are limitations to HSS that I am trying to get around. In case you are not aware, both Nikon and Canon will allow you to trigger a manual flash at a shutter speed faster than the camera's flash sync shutter speed. That is all I am asking for. Just a menu override choice to allow the camera to fire a flash, when say the shutter is at 1/250.

Wouldn't crop mode of the K-1 be a place where that would make sense? I'm guessing that any black bar from the shutter at 1/250th would be cropped out anyway, right? Actually, a cool thing would be to make the sync speed of the K-1 1/250 when in crop mode! But I'm not even asking for that, just a firmware update adding a choice in the menu to allow she shutter to fire. Does anyone know why this simple thing can't be done?

stevebrot · 06-09-2016, 10:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jake14mw

Does anyone know why this simple thing can't be done?

Oh, it is probably quite possible. It depends on how the sync is managed.* The question might be how it looks in the cost benefit equation.

There is a cost to bring any feature to market. That being said, if work were already being done in regards to sync control it would be nice and not too costly to simply loosen the rules for M mode to trigger the sync regardless of shutter speed. Reworking QA test harnesses would be another expense.
Direct benefit is limited to potential sales to people wanting to use the flash sync for other than doing effective sync
There is an indirect liability in regards to depressed sales of Pentax HSS flashes
Another indirect liability is potential for increased support calls and warranty service requests related to uninformed users

I think Ricoh/Pentax will likely continue to be disincented to offer this behavior.

Steve

* If the sync is tightly gated to the physical position of the two curtains, making the change may not be possible without changing their manufacturing and design standards.

jake14mw · 06-09-2016, 12:56 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

Oh, it is probably quite possible. It depends on how the sync is managed.* The question might be how it looks in the cost benefit equation.

There is a cost to bring any feature to market. That being said, if work were already being done in regards to sync control it would be nice and not too costly to simply loosen the rules for M mode to trigger the sync regardless of shutter speed. Reworking QA test harnesses would be another expense.
Direct benefit is limited to potential sales to people wanting to use the flash sync for other than doing effective sync
There is an indirect liability in regards to depressed sales of Pentax HSS flashes
Another indirect liability is potential for increased support calls and warranty service requests related to uninformed users

I think Ricoh/Pentax will likely continue to be disincented to offer this behavior.

Steve

* If the sync is tightly gated to the physical position of the two curtains, making the change may not be possible without changing their manufacturing and design standards.

Yes, I am not sure of the physical limitations of the shutter mechanism, but I think in the past people have found some sort of wierd workarounds to demonstrate how much of a black band there would be at certain shutter speeds, so I don't think it should prevent it from happening. Also, Nikon and Canon allow it, so I wouldn't think it should be hard to do, but as you said, we don't know that for sure.

As far as the benefit to Pentax, I agree with you, this is a minor benefit. I'm just hoping that the effort to implement is low enough to get it done.

Adam · 06-09-2016, 01:02 PM

With the recent increase to 1/200s I'm sure it's only a matter of models now before 1/250s sync is added. It sounds like Pentax has been putting in a lot of effort recently on shutter design.

Adam
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**clackers** · 06-09-2016, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by jake14mw

Also, Nikon and Canon allow it, so I wouldn't think it should be hard to do, but as you said, we don't know that for sure.

As far as the benefit to Pentax, I agree with you, this is a minor benefit. I'm just hoping that the effort to implement is low enough to get it done.

To be honest, I think they just don't permit it by default, and don't rate overriding it in a menu as a much-needed option.

If you like, purchase a piece of hardware that separately sends a trigger down one cable to the flash, another to to the shutter port on the body. There must be such a thing.

jake14mw · 06-10-2016, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by clackers

To be honest, I think they just don't permit it by default, and don't rate overriding it in a menu as a much-needed option.

If you like, purchase a piece of hardware that separately sends a trigger down one cable to the flash, another to to the shutter port on the body. There must be such a thing.

Agreed. I think if that piece of hardware existed, I would have heard about it, but if anyone knows of one, please let me know!

jake14mw · 06-10-2016, 08:43 AM

Attached is a post showing how the black bars look at different shutter speeds with the Nikon D800.

Pushing the limits of the Nikon D800 flash sync speed | Nikon Rumors

**clackers** · 06-10-2016, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by jake14mw

Agreed. I think if that piece of hardware existed, I would have heard about it,

Even various wireless triggers like the Yongnuo RF 603 can do this, no?

06-09-2016, 08:21 AM - 1 Like	#1
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	Isn't K-1 crop mode a good place to allow flash with shutter speed faster than 1/200? OK, I'm back on my bandwagon again of Pentax allowing us to trigger a flash at a shutter speed faster than the sync speed and deal with any resulting black bars. Firstly, I know about High Speed Synch mode. I'm not talking about that. There are limitations to HSS that I am trying to get around. In case you are not aware, both Nikon and Canon will allow you to trigger a manual flash at a shutter speed faster than the camera's flash sync shutter speed. That is all I am asking for. Just a menu override choice to allow the camera to fire a flash, when say the shutter is at 1/250. Wouldn't crop mode of the K-1 be a place where that would make sense? I'm guessing that any black bar from the shutter at 1/250th would be cropped out anyway, right? Actually, a cool thing would be to make the sync speed of the K-1 1/250 when in crop mode! But I'm not even asking for that, just a firmware update adding a choice in the menu to allow she shutter to fire. Does anyone know why this simple thing can't be done?

06-09-2016, 10:09 AM - 1 Like	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jake14mw Does anyone know why this simple thing can't be done? Oh, it is probably quite possible. It depends on how the sync is managed.* The question might be how it looks in the cost benefit equation. There is a cost to bring any feature to market. That being said, if work were already being done in regards to sync control it would be nice and not too costly to simply loosen the rules for M mode to trigger the sync regardless of shutter speed. Reworking QA test harnesses would be another expense. Direct benefit is limited to potential sales to people wanting to use the flash sync for other than doing effective sync There is an indirect liability in regards to depressed sales of Pentax HSS flashes Another indirect liability is potential for increased support calls and warranty service requests related to uninformed users I think Ricoh/Pentax will likely continue to be disincented to offer this behavior. Steve * If the sync is tightly gated to the physical position of the two curtains, making the change may not be possible without changing their manufacturing and design standards. Last edited by stevebrot; 06-09-2016 at 11:21 AM.

06-09-2016, 12:56 PM - 1 Like	#3
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Oh, it is probably quite possible. It depends on how the sync is managed.* The question might be how it looks in the cost benefit equation. There is a cost to bring any feature to market. That being said, if work were already being done in regards to sync control it would be nice and not too costly to simply loosen the rules for M mode to trigger the sync regardless of shutter speed. Reworking QA test harnesses would be another expense. Direct benefit is limited to potential sales to people wanting to use the flash sync for other than doing effective sync There is an indirect liability in regards to depressed sales of Pentax HSS flashes Another indirect liability is potential for increased support calls and warranty service requests related to uninformed users I think Ricoh/Pentax will likely continue to be disincented to offer this behavior. Steve * If the sync is tightly gated to the physical position of the two curtains, making the change may not be possible without changing their manufacturing and design standards. Yes, I am not sure of the physical limitations of the shutter mechanism, but I think in the past people have found some sort of wierd workarounds to demonstrate how much of a black band there would be at certain shutter speeds, so I don't think it should prevent it from happening. Also, Nikon and Canon allow it, so I wouldn't think it should be hard to do, but as you said, we don't know that for sure. As far as the benefit to Pentax, I agree with you, this is a minor benefit. I'm just hoping that the effort to implement is low enough to get it done.

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06-09-2016, 01:02 PM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	With the recent increase to 1/200s I'm sure it's only a matter of models now before 1/250s sync is added. It sounds like Pentax has been putting in a lot of effort recently on shutter design. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-09-2016, 10:48 PM	#5
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jake14mw Also, Nikon and Canon allow it, so I wouldn't think it should be hard to do, but as you said, we don't know that for sure. As far as the benefit to Pentax, I agree with you, this is a minor benefit. I'm just hoping that the effort to implement is low enough to get it done. To be honest, I think they just don't permit it by default, and don't rate overriding it in a menu as a much-needed option. If you like, purchase a piece of hardware that separately sends a trigger down one cable to the flash, another to to the shutter port on the body. There must be such a thing.

06-10-2016, 06:47 AM	#6
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977 Original Poster	Originally posted by clackers To be honest, I think they just don't permit it by default, and don't rate overriding it in a menu as a much-needed option. If you like, purchase a piece of hardware that separately sends a trigger down one cable to the flash, another to to the shutter port on the body. There must be such a thing. Agreed. I think if that piece of hardware existed, I would have heard about it, but if anyone knows of one, please let me know!

06-10-2016, 08:43 AM	#7
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977 Original Poster	Attached is a post showing how the black bars look at different shutter speeds with the Nikon D800. Pushing the limits of the Nikon D800 flash sync speed \| Nikon Rumors

06-10-2016, 01:00 PM	#8
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jake14mw Agreed. I think if that piece of hardware existed, I would have heard about it, Even various wireless triggers like the Yongnuo RF 603 can do this, no?