What you could do with a K1 that you can't do without

Ptitboul · 07-04-2016, 12:25 AM - **1 Like**

Quote:

What you could do with a K1 that you can't do without

Have a swirling bokeh with the 60-250.

biz-engineer · 07-04-2016, 08:30 AM

It's easy, for a given framing (same subject) DoF depends only on lens aperture and sensor size. In others words, everyone saying that the same DoF can be achieved with the same field of view with apsc and full frame is simply wrong.

Unregistered User · 07-04-2016, 09:42 AM - **2 Likes**

My 2 cents or how the expression goes...

I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical.

I have a lens, say the FA77. Using it on my K-3 I get a certain framing and DOF. I like to shoot at f/2.0 to get a certain sharpness and bokeh. If I put it on my K-1 I get less DOF at the same framing, not much but enough to see a difference in appereance. I prefer the rendering done in combo with the K-1, if I want the same DOF as with the K-3 I just stop down. To get the same shot with the K-3 I would need a 51mm @f/1.4 if my math is correct and yes there is such a lens, the FA50/1.4 but that lens does not render the bokeh the same way and it is not very sharp at 1.4 and putting the 50/1.4 on the K-1 gives me even less DOF and the dominos keeps falling down.

One more practical thing talked about when it comes to Crop vs FF;

I am shooting a landscape and with the K-3 I get 24 MP using a 20mm @f/8. Using the K-1 I use 30mm for the same framing and f/11:ish for the same DOF and i get 36 MP. Some then say that I will get more noise because when stopping down I need to raise the ISO. Well, I just lower the shutter speed and therefor no noise penalty.
Using the stitching tech described is one way to do things but it is easier to just have to take one shot and be done with it.

As a Pentax user I have always justified not getting a FF from Canikon with telling myself that I can do the same images with my crop camera, I just need the right lens for the job. But I then started using medium format and found it to be so much easier to get the images I was wanting to take, same goes with the K-1, it makes it easier with the lenses I have. To achieve the same with the K-3 I will need to get very fast lenses, now I can stay at 2.8 or slower. Using the 77 going from 2.0 to 1.8 really changes the bokeh so even those tiny differences do change the look and feel of the photos.

biz-engineer · 07-04-2016, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

My 2 cents or how the expression goes... I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical. I have a lens, say the FA77. Using it on my K-3 I get a certain framing and DOF. I like to shoot at f/2.0 to get a certain sharpness and bokeh. If I put it on my K-1 I get less DOF at the same framing, not much but enough to see a difference in appereance. I prefer the rendering done in combo with the K-1, if I want the same DOF as with the K-3 I just stop down. To get the same shot with the K-3 I would need a 51mm @f/1.4 if my math is correct and yes there is such a lens, the FA50/1.4 but that lens does not render the bokeh the same way and it is not very sharp at 1.4 and putting the 50/1.4 on the K-1 gives me even less DOF and the dominos keeps falling down. One more practical thing talked about when it comes to Crop vs FF; I am shooting a landscape and with the K-3 I get 24 MP using a 20mm @f/8. Using the K-1 I use 30mm for the same framing and f/11:ish for the same DOF and i get 36 MP. Some then say that I will get more noise because when stopping down I need to raise the ISO. Well, I just lower the shutter speed and therefor no noise penalty. Using the stitching tech described is one way to do things but it is easier to just have to take one shot and be done with it. As a Pentax user I have always justified not getting a FF from Canikon with telling myself that I can do the same images with my crop camera, I just need the right lens for the job. But I then started using medium format and found it to be so much easier to get the images I was wanting to take, same goes with the K-1, it makes it easier with the lenses I have. To achieve the same with the K-3 I will need to get very fast lenses, now I can stay at 2.8 or slower. Using the 77 going from 2.0 to 1.8 really changes the bokeh so even those tiny differences do change the look and feel of the photos. /T

Very good summary indeed.

Barry Pearson · 07-04-2016, 11:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical.
<snip>

I agree. I read those theoretical arguments, which may have immaculate reasoning behind them.

Then I go into the field with my K-1, and I find that the K-1 makes it easier to get the photos I want, I get more keepers, and they are better keepers. (My previous camera was a K-3II).

I had a scientific education, but my career was as an engineer. All the theory in the world isn't a substitute for getting out and trying it for real.

07-04-2016, 08:30 AM	#77
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,245 Original Poster	It's easy, for a given framing (same subject) DoF depends only on lens aperture and sensor size. In others words, everyone saying that the same DoF can be achieved with the same field of view with apsc and full frame is simply wrong. Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-04-2016 at 08:37 AM.

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07-04-2016, 12:25 AM - 1 Like	#76
Ptitboul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 56	Quote: What you could do with a K1 that you can't do without Have a swirling bokeh with the 60-250.

07-04-2016, 09:42 AM - 2 Likes	#78
Unregistered User Guest	My 2 cents or how the expression goes... I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical. I have a lens, say the FA77. Using it on my K-3 I get a certain framing and DOF. I like to shoot at f/2.0 to get a certain sharpness and bokeh. If I put it on my K-1 I get less DOF at the same framing, not much but enough to see a difference in appereance. I prefer the rendering done in combo with the K-1, if I want the same DOF as with the K-3 I just stop down. To get the same shot with the K-3 I would need a 51mm @f/1.4 if my math is correct and yes there is such a lens, the FA50/1.4 but that lens does not render the bokeh the same way and it is not very sharp at 1.4 and putting the 50/1.4 on the K-1 gives me even less DOF and the dominos keeps falling down. One more practical thing talked about when it comes to Crop vs FF; I am shooting a landscape and with the K-3 I get 24 MP using a 20mm @f/8. Using the K-1 I use 30mm for the same framing and f/11:ish for the same DOF and i get 36 MP. Some then say that I will get more noise because when stopping down I need to raise the ISO. Well, I just lower the shutter speed and therefor no noise penalty. Using the stitching tech described is one way to do things but it is easier to just have to take one shot and be done with it. As a Pentax user I have always justified not getting a FF from Canikon with telling myself that I can do the same images with my crop camera, I just need the right lens for the job. But I then started using medium format and found it to be so much easier to get the images I was wanting to take, same goes with the K-1, it makes it easier with the lenses I have. To achieve the same with the K-3 I will need to get very fast lenses, now I can stay at 2.8 or slower. Using the 77 going from 2.0 to 1.8 really changes the bokeh so even those tiny differences do change the look and feel of the photos.

07-04-2016, 09:47 AM	#79
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,245 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 My 2 cents or how the expression goes... I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical. I have a lens, say the FA77. Using it on my K-3 I get a certain framing and DOF. I like to shoot at f/2.0 to get a certain sharpness and bokeh. If I put it on my K-1 I get less DOF at the same framing, not much but enough to see a difference in appereance. I prefer the rendering done in combo with the K-1, if I want the same DOF as with the K-3 I just stop down. To get the same shot with the K-3 I would need a 51mm @f/1.4 if my math is correct and yes there is such a lens, the FA50/1.4 but that lens does not render the bokeh the same way and it is not very sharp at 1.4 and putting the 50/1.4 on the K-1 gives me even less DOF and the dominos keeps falling down. One more practical thing talked about when it comes to Crop vs FF; I am shooting a landscape and with the K-3 I get 24 MP using a 20mm @f/8. Using the K-1 I use 30mm for the same framing and f/11:ish for the same DOF and i get 36 MP. Some then say that I will get more noise because when stopping down I need to raise the ISO. Well, I just lower the shutter speed and therefor no noise penalty. Using the stitching tech described is one way to do things but it is easier to just have to take one shot and be done with it. As a Pentax user I have always justified not getting a FF from Canikon with telling myself that I can do the same images with my crop camera, I just need the right lens for the job. But I then started using medium format and found it to be so much easier to get the images I was wanting to take, same goes with the K-1, it makes it easier with the lenses I have. To achieve the same with the K-3 I will need to get very fast lenses, now I can stay at 2.8 or slower. Using the 77 going from 2.0 to 1.8 really changes the bokeh so even those tiny differences do change the look and feel of the photos. /T Very good summary indeed.

07-04-2016, 11:37 AM - 1 Like	#80
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I have read most of the thread and of course you can achive the same framing and DOF with any sensor size but I think the reasoning arround the subject is kind of not practical. <snip> I agree. I read those theoretical arguments, which may have immaculate reasoning behind them. Then I go into the field with my K-1, and I find that the K-1 makes it easier to get the photos I want, I get more keepers, and they are better keepers. (My previous camera was a K-3II). I had a scientific education, but my career was as an engineer. All the theory in the world isn't a substitute for getting out and trying it for real.