K1 mark ii - speculation on development roadmap

**beachgardener** · 09-23-2017, 02:15 AM

another obstacle to tackle you reckon? par for the course?

**Rondec** · 09-23-2017, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by beachgardener

For the K-1, I have read in other threads that there is a major fault with the shutter at some standard speeds creating vibration and consequently images affected with less sharpness. If this is right then they need to publicly acknowledge this and fix this error before any new development of the K-1. And, publicise from serial number xxx??? onward the problem fixed.

I am thankful that further aps-c development is happening.

This can be a problem with any camera and is typically seen in tripod shooting, not when shooting handheld. Typically when on a tripod I use the electronic shutter and that takes care of it. It probably does exist to a lesser extent on APS-C cameras, but is more prone to occur on cameras with larger sensors.

If you want to read more, you can check this link: Mirror Slap and Shutter Shock – Catching the Light (It isn't something that Pentax is in a deep plot to hide and not something that is unique to their cameras).

**beachgardener** · 09-23-2017, 03:15 AM

thanks I'll read up on it

larsbars · 10-05-2017, 10:33 AM

Work on AF. Convince tamron and sigma to continue making lenses for pentax. I'd be a lifer at that point.

**pres589** · 10-05-2017, 11:21 AM

I would imagine that Tamron is exactly where they want to be; now and then working with Pentax on Pentax branded/improved versions of Tamron products. They would also have to have a pretty clear picture of how fast the 15-30 and 24-70 are selling so Ricoh would only convince them through selling a good number of those products.

"Convincing" Sigma seems like a waste of time. Maybe Tokina comes back first. What makes more sense is trying to figure out the lenses that Ricoh can make the most money on, either through volume or markup, that it doesn't already offer and do it themselves. 3rd party lenses are either for when the body manufacturer doesn't have a product of the type you want and 3rd party does, or to save money over buying the body OEM's lens. My lens needs are probably 95% met with Pentax products (the Tamron 28-75 is really tempting and I don't see anything else quite like it from Pentax, the D-FA 24-70 is too big/heavy/costly and I want the extra reach).

larsbars · 10-05-2017, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by pres589

I would imagine that Tamron is exactly where they want to be; now and then working with Pentax on Pentax branded/improved versions of Tamron products. They would also have to have a pretty clear picture of how fast the 15-30 and 24-70 are selling so Ricoh would only convince them through selling a good number of those products.

"Convincing" Sigma seems like a waste of time. Maybe Tokina comes back first. What makes more sense is trying to figure out the lenses that Ricoh can make the most money on, either through volume or markup, that it doesn't already offer and do it themselves. 3rd party lenses are either for when the body manufacturer doesn't have a product of the type you want and 3rd party does, or to save money over buying the body OEM's lens. My lens needs are probably 95% met with Pentax products (the Tamron 28-75 is really tempting and I don't see anything else quite like it from Pentax, the D-FA 24-70 is too big/heavy/costly and I want the extra reach).

Just having more options even if they overlap would modify the ecosystem, particularly the prices on used lenses. There are also lots of people who seem to really get into specialty lenses and are willing to spend lots of money on many of the same types of lenses. Pentax won't make money on the third party lenses but they could grow their user base overall by doing this especially in concert with the K-1. It's really unfortunate that their relationships with third party lens manufacturers seemed to have fallen apart right as the K-1 came out. We'll never know just how much business they lost from that. Generally I think people would love to move to pentax based on their philosophy as long as they could check off all the boxes in their head about what they require (and at least for me it's the two things listed above).

**pres589** · 10-05-2017, 11:49 AM

If people want to use 3rd party lenses that are available new, they won't buy a Pentax, there's no reason to do so. Sony has the "we have an adapter for that" market sewn up and Nikon/Canon get the most attention from the 3rd parties.

This probably sounds overly negative, but, group hugging the 3rd party lens manufacturers is not going to help Ricoh right now. Get more bodies sold and that would change the situation.

larsbars · 10-05-2017, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by pres589

If people want to use 3rd party lenses that are available new, they won't buy a Pentax, there's no reason to do so. Sony has the "we have an adapter for that" market sewn up and Nikon/Canon get the most attention from the 3rd parties.

This probably sounds overly negative, but, group hugging the 3rd party lens manufacturers is not going to help Ricoh right now. Get more bodies sold and that would change the situation.

Then the question is, what's the path to getting more bodies sold. They're already the cheapest option while still having an amazing product.

**pres589** · 10-05-2017, 03:10 PM

You would need to ask people that are being limited by the products in some way they can really point to. I feel like, at my level and what I do, my current crop body is more than sufficient. I think full framers have legit lens availability complaints but right now I'm fine there.

Munki · 10-05-2017, 10:50 PM

I personally feel their distribution channels and marketing are probably lacking. There's no real exposure to the Pentax brand here in Australia - except for one or two retailers who actually stock Pentax gear. However, then you have sales reps who have very limited knowledge of the Pentax range and capabilities, and so would rather push customers to Canikon than to showcase what Pentax can offer them. They'll need to get the name Pentax embedded into consumers' minds when they think of photography/cameras because I assure you, their brand presence is lacking in that regard.

biz-engineer · 10-05-2017, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

This can be a problem with any camera and is typically seen in tripod shooting, not when shooting handheld.

For claiming that shutter shock that is evidenced on tripod doesn't show up hand help, you must have a very skinning tripod.

**Rondec** · 10-06-2017, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

For claiming that shutter shock that is evidenced on tripod doesn't show up hand help, you must have a very skinning tripod.

Well, I guess I will just say that I haven't seen it with any of my lenses. I shoot hand held with SR on (I don't own the DFA 28-105 which has been implicated the most) and when I am on a tripod I typically shoot with the electronic shutter using a remote. When I see blur, it is typically subject movement and not related to the camera. I wouldn't say it has never happened, but it just doesn't seem to be an issue that I have dealt with much at all.

Gyroscope · 10-14-2017, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Ginnipe

I could see a mk2 version being put out, but not at least until 2018-2019. I would much rather see Pentax put out another flagship APSC camera in the interim than a meagerly updated K1.

Across the board though I think Pentax needs to improve two main things. AF performance and marketing. AF performance is the single biggest disadvantage to the Pentax lineup. It isn't bad by any means, but if you're going to pull users from CaNikon, you're going to have to start at the very least matching their 80D / 7200 series performance. This is the single biggest factor that I wish Pentax would work on. I would much rather see them pour resources into bringing their AF to the modern standard than see little niceties like a touch screen or improved Pixel Shift (though I would LOVE both of those features). If I could have my K1 as my go to powerhouse for landscapes and portraits (which is what it currently is) but then get a... K3m3...K2 (I know I know its a film camera I own one)...whatever they're going to call the next APSC Flagship for Sports and Wildlife with comparable AF performance to Canikon I would be a happy camper. This would allow Pentax to fill all the roles a Canon or Nikon can for about half the price. With the new KAF4 mount we may see more third party lenses coming in as well so the already very strong APSC camp will be bolstered while the admirable though small FF line up will be slowly brought to a comparable standard (in terms of both overall amount of lenses and overall amount of of lenses designed for digital sensors).

The other thing I'd love to see, as stated above, is better marketing. There is no reason for Pentax to not market their cameras in the way Subaru markets their cars. They're rugged dependable workhorses made for the outdoors with a bit of charm. I would love to see Pentax just take that fact and run with it. Have marketing of people using their cameras rock climbing, Kayaking, out in really rough landscaped with the K1. People love to be outdoors, whether they actually go out often or not is a different story, but people love to do it. Subaru's brand marketing is a testament to this. Go to Vermont or Maine and like 60% of cars on the road are subarus. Now imagine if Pentax could tap into that very market of outdoors-men and people who search for adventure. It would draw more people into the system, therefor bringing in more third party support and making it stronger over all.

I'm sorry I went on a bit of a rant, but I'm keeping it in. This is what I would love to see Pentax do. Improve AF performance and improve their marketing.

This.

A K1 like k3 successor with awesome AF would be a huge success.

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09-23-2017, 02:15 AM	#46
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	another obstacle to tackle you reckon? par for the course?

09-23-2017, 02:26 AM	#47
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by beachgardener For the K-1, I have read in other threads that there is a major fault with the shutter at some standard speeds creating vibration and consequently images affected with less sharpness. If this is right then they need to publicly acknowledge this and fix this error before any new development of the K-1. And, publicise from serial number xxx??? onward the problem fixed. I am thankful that further aps-c development is happening. This can be a problem with any camera and is typically seen in tripod shooting, not when shooting handheld. Typically when on a tripod I use the electronic shutter and that takes care of it. It probably does exist to a lesser extent on APS-C cameras, but is more prone to occur on cameras with larger sensors. If you want to read more, you can check this link: Mirror Slap and Shutter Shock – Catching the Light (It isn't something that Pentax is in a deep plot to hide and not something that is unique to their cameras).

09-23-2017, 03:15 AM	#48
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	thanks I'll read up on it

10-05-2017, 10:33 AM	#49
larsbars Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 31	Work on AF. Convince tamron and sigma to continue making lenses for pentax. I'd be a lifer at that point.

10-05-2017, 11:21 AM	#50
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	I would imagine that Tamron is exactly where they want to be; now and then working with Pentax on Pentax branded/improved versions of Tamron products. They would also have to have a pretty clear picture of how fast the 15-30 and 24-70 are selling so Ricoh would only convince them through selling a good number of those products. "Convincing" Sigma seems like a waste of time. Maybe Tokina comes back first. What makes more sense is trying to figure out the lenses that Ricoh can make the most money on, either through volume or markup, that it doesn't already offer and do it themselves. 3rd party lenses are either for when the body manufacturer doesn't have a product of the type you want and 3rd party does, or to save money over buying the body OEM's lens. My lens needs are probably 95% met with Pentax products (the Tamron 28-75 is really tempting and I don't see anything else quite like it from Pentax, the D-FA 24-70 is too big/heavy/costly and I want the extra reach).

10-05-2017, 11:34 AM	#51
larsbars Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 31	Originally posted by pres589 I would imagine that Tamron is exactly where they want to be; now and then working with Pentax on Pentax branded/improved versions of Tamron products. They would also have to have a pretty clear picture of how fast the 15-30 and 24-70 are selling so Ricoh would only convince them through selling a good number of those products. "Convincing" Sigma seems like a waste of time. Maybe Tokina comes back first. What makes more sense is trying to figure out the lenses that Ricoh can make the most money on, either through volume or markup, that it doesn't already offer and do it themselves. 3rd party lenses are either for when the body manufacturer doesn't have a product of the type you want and 3rd party does, or to save money over buying the body OEM's lens. My lens needs are probably 95% met with Pentax products (the Tamron 28-75 is really tempting and I don't see anything else quite like it from Pentax, the D-FA 24-70 is too big/heavy/costly and I want the extra reach). Just having more options even if they overlap would modify the ecosystem, particularly the prices on used lenses. There are also lots of people who seem to really get into specialty lenses and are willing to spend lots of money on many of the same types of lenses. Pentax won't make money on the third party lenses but they could grow their user base overall by doing this especially in concert with the K-1. It's really unfortunate that their relationships with third party lens manufacturers seemed to have fallen apart right as the K-1 came out. We'll never know just how much business they lost from that. Generally I think people would love to move to pentax based on their philosophy as long as they could check off all the boxes in their head about what they require (and at least for me it's the two things listed above).

10-05-2017, 11:49 AM	#52
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	If people want to use 3rd party lenses that are available new, they won't buy a Pentax, there's no reason to do so. Sony has the "we have an adapter for that" market sewn up and Nikon/Canon get the most attention from the 3rd parties. This probably sounds overly negative, but, group hugging the 3rd party lens manufacturers is not going to help Ricoh right now. Get more bodies sold and that would change the situation.

10-05-2017, 01:57 PM	#53
larsbars Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 31	Originally posted by pres589 If people want to use 3rd party lenses that are available new, they won't buy a Pentax, there's no reason to do so. Sony has the "we have an adapter for that" market sewn up and Nikon/Canon get the most attention from the 3rd parties. This probably sounds overly negative, but, group hugging the 3rd party lens manufacturers is not going to help Ricoh right now. Get more bodies sold and that would change the situation. Then the question is, what's the path to getting more bodies sold. They're already the cheapest option while still having an amazing product.

10-05-2017, 03:10 PM	#54
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	You would need to ask people that are being limited by the products in some way they can really point to. I feel like, at my level and what I do, my current crop body is more than sufficient. I think full framers have legit lens availability complaints but right now I'm fine there.

10-05-2017, 10:50 PM	#55
Munki Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 246	I personally feel their distribution channels and marketing are probably lacking. There's no real exposure to the Pentax brand here in Australia - except for one or two retailers who actually stock Pentax gear. However, then you have sales reps who have very limited knowledge of the Pentax range and capabilities, and so would rather push customers to Canikon than to showcase what Pentax can offer them. They'll need to get the name Pentax embedded into consumers' minds when they think of photography/cameras because I assure you, their brand presence is lacking in that regard.

10-05-2017, 11:50 PM	#56
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Rondec This can be a problem with any camera and is typically seen in tripod shooting, not when shooting handheld. For claiming that shutter shock that is evidenced on tripod doesn't show up hand help, you must have a very skinning tripod.

10-06-2017, 02:38 AM	#57
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by biz-engineer For claiming that shutter shock that is evidenced on tripod doesn't show up hand help, you must have a very skinning tripod. Well, I guess I will just say that I haven't seen it with any of my lenses. I shoot hand held with SR on (I don't own the DFA 28-105 which has been implicated the most) and when I am on a tripod I typically shoot with the electronic shutter using a remote. When I see blur, it is typically subject movement and not related to the camera. I wouldn't say it has never happened, but it just doesn't seem to be an issue that I have dealt with much at all.

10-14-2017, 05:25 PM	#58
Gyroscope Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 166	Originally posted by Ginnipe I could see a mk2 version being put out, but not at least until 2018-2019. I would much rather see Pentax put out another flagship APSC camera in the interim than a meagerly updated K1. Across the board though I think Pentax needs to improve two main things. AF performance and marketing. AF performance is the single biggest disadvantage to the Pentax lineup. It isn't bad by any means, but if you're going to pull users from CaNikon, you're going to have to start at the very least matching their 80D / 7200 series performance. This is the single biggest factor that I wish Pentax would work on. I would much rather see them pour resources into bringing their AF to the modern standard than see little niceties like a touch screen or improved Pixel Shift (though I would LOVE both of those features). If I could have my K1 as my go to powerhouse for landscapes and portraits (which is what it currently is) but then get a... K3m3...K2 (I know I know its a film camera I own one)...whatever they're going to call the next APSC Flagship for Sports and Wildlife with comparable AF performance to Canikon I would be a happy camper. This would allow Pentax to fill all the roles a Canon or Nikon can for about half the price. With the new KAF4 mount we may see more third party lenses coming in as well so the already very strong APSC camp will be bolstered while the admirable though small FF line up will be slowly brought to a comparable standard (in terms of both overall amount of lenses and overall amount of of lenses designed for digital sensors). The other thing I'd love to see, as stated above, is better marketing. There is no reason for Pentax to not market their cameras in the way Subaru markets their cars. They're rugged dependable workhorses made for the outdoors with a bit of charm. I would love to see Pentax just take that fact and run with it. Have marketing of people using their cameras rock climbing, Kayaking, out in really rough landscaped with the K1. People love to be outdoors, whether they actually go out often or not is a different story, but people love to do it. Subaru's brand marketing is a testament to this. Go to Vermont or Maine and like 60% of cars on the road are subarus. Now imagine if Pentax could tap into that very market of outdoors-men and people who search for adventure. It would draw more people into the system, therefor bringing in more third party support and making it stronger over all. I'm sorry I went on a bit of a rant, but I'm keeping it in. This is what I would love to see Pentax do. Improve AF performance and improve their marketing. This. A K1 like k3 successor with awesome AF would be a huge success.