K1 mark ii - speculation on development roadmap

tomO2013 · 07-19-2016, 01:13 PM

Hi,

As we all know the K1 was just released and as a first digital FF entrant, it's a very solid delivery (along with an initial very solid lens lineup) - HD DFA's 24-70 2.8, 15-30 2.8, 70-200 2.8 and 150-450.

Looking to the future and as a full frame system, I have been considering where Pentax will go next.

My personal opinion is that they will not wait the typical Canonikon 3/4 year turnover period for their high end pro-dslr's. Obviously as soon as one product is released the development team is already hard at work on a successor, the real question is when and if a successor would come and what it would bring.

I think that within a year there will be a K1 iiS or K1 ii with updated USB3, same sensor, bigger buffer/frame rate, possibly upgraded video (4k???) and faster AF performance albeit with the same Safox 12 focus system (assuming they follow the same pattern as happened with K3 and K3ii).

I feel that Ricoh would do well to release an updated lens roadmap for owners - similar to the approach that Sony took with development of the A7 series.

Anybody have any thoughts - this is not a bash/whats wrong with K1 thread. Theme and topic is what could a future roadmap possibly hold and how agressive/invested are Ricoh in making their FF DSLR's succeed.

For what it's worth, I feel that Thom Hogans discussion on mirrorless and DSLR is right on the money - DSLR is not a static tech and as the D500 and D5 demonstrated , AF advantages have once again taken a massive leap frog on mirrorless. i.e. neither mirrorless or DSLR are standing still right now. There is plenty of development opportunity for Pentax right now.

Tom.

Kunzite · 07-19-2016, 01:26 PM

Within a year? Too early, IMO. Development takes time.

"Same sensor" doesn't work with "bigger frame rate" or "4k".

Paul2660 · 07-19-2016, 01:29 PM - **1 Like**

What I would like to see:

1. A much better raw converter, other than the software that ships with the camera, which IMO is terrible. Pentax could at least include a coupon for the full version of Silkypix software, to help defray the cost of having to add full Silkypix. Adobe's current attempt to work on pixel shift files, is less than stellar, and their track record on fixes is not very good. I also don't see Phase One coming out with a pixel shift solution either.

2. Much faster buffer or processing algorithm for Pixel shift, as currently it takes about 12 seconds for the camera to write a file which is way way too long. Pentax should have been able to send some of that processing to a buffer that would free up the camera to shoot again in more like 5 seconds.

3. Vastly improved AF, Coming from Nikon, the K1's current AF is lacking but I expected that.

4. Lenses it would be nice to see more D FA primes, or a better partnership with Sigma so that more of the newer Art lenses can be made in the K mount. Pentax could use a much faster super wide in the 14mm to 20mm range, even a F 2.8 would be great.

5. Battery life, Pentax could possible produce a battery with a great milliamp life. Current battery life is about 1/4 less than other comparable brands.

6. Improvements to pixel shift, which allows the photographer to work with motion. Currently even with the motion selection on, you really can't work with outdoor subjects that have much wind movement. Not sure if this is possible, but it would be a nice feature.

7. Consider moving the remote port to the left side of the body? Only camera I have used that has it on the right.

8. Better balance on highlights, as I have found the K1 much less forgiving on highlights, i.e. you really have to meter your clouds as they can go pure white very quickly.

9. Allow full bracketing control in M mode, as currently in M mode, bracketing (brackets) both aperture and shutter speed, something again I have never seen before. This forces you to Av mode as
you don't want your aperture to change during a bracketing sequence.

Overall a great camera, and it has enough potential that I have started leaving my Nikon's at home. Pixel shift is a true game changer, but needs a lot more focused attention by Pentax, both in raw software (Ricoh needs to work closer with Adobe and Phase One) and buffer/processing speed. 12 total seconds of being locked out of the camera, needs to be dropped by at least 1/2 of that, to more like 5/6 seconds.

Paul Caldwell
Photos Of Arkansas

Adam · 07-19-2016, 01:30 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tomO2013

I feel that Ricoh would do well to release an updated lens roadmap for owners - similar to the approach that Sony took with development of the A7 series.

There are 5 D FA lenses on the current roadmap:

2016 Pentax Full Frame Lens Roadmaps - CP+ 2016 | PentaxForums.com

I think this will be the short-term focus, rather than worrying about the body.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)

PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

LensBeginner · 07-19-2016, 01:33 PM

Given how long it has taken them to put out the first one - and I mean that in a good sense, because of the care and attention to detail is apparent - I believe at least a 2-year to be more realistic.

Also, they don't have infinite resources and many products lines to follow (Q, APS-C, MF and now FF), plus they need to plug the holes in the FF lenses lineup.

mikeSF · 07-19-2016, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by tomO2013

...

For what it's worth, I feel that Thom Hogans discussion on mirrorless and DSLR is right on the money - DSLR is not a static tech and as the D500 and D5 demonstrated , AF advantages have once again taken a massive leap frog on mirrorless. i.e. neither mirrorless or DSLR are standing still right now. There is plenty of development opportunity for Pentax right now.

Tom.

I don't follow this person - do you have a link to the comment you are referencing? thx

Ginnipe · 07-19-2016, 01:52 PM - **2 Likes**

I could see a mk2 version being put out, but not at least until 2018-2019. I would much rather see Pentax put out another flagship APSC camera in the interim than a meagerly updated K1.

Across the board though I think Pentax needs to improve two main things. AF performance and marketing. AF performance is the single biggest disadvantage to the Pentax lineup. It isn't bad by any means, but if you're going to pull users from CaNikon, you're going to have to start at the very least matching their 80D / 7200 series performance. This is the single biggest factor that I wish Pentax would work on. I would much rather see them pour resources into bringing their AF to the modern standard than see little niceties like a touch screen or improved Pixel Shift (though I would LOVE both of those features). If I could have my K1 as my go to powerhouse for landscapes and portraits (which is what it currently is) but then get a... K3m3...K2 (I know I know its a film camera I own one)...whatever they're going to call the next APSC Flagship for Sports and Wildlife with comparable AF performance to Canikon I would be a happy camper. This would allow Pentax to fill all the roles a Canon or Nikon can for about half the price. With the new KAF4 mount we may see more third party lenses coming in as well so the already very strong APSC camp will be bolstered while the admirable though small FF line up will be slowly brought to a comparable standard (in terms of both overall amount of lenses and overall amount of of lenses designed for digital sensors).

The other thing I'd love to see, as stated above, is better marketing. There is no reason for Pentax to not market their cameras in the way Subaru markets their cars. They're rugged dependable workhorses made for the outdoors with a bit of charm. I would love to see Pentax just take that fact and run with it. Have marketing of people using their cameras rock climbing, Kayaking, out in really rough landscaped with the K1. People love to be outdoors, whether they actually go out often or not is a different story, but people love to do it. Subaru's brand marketing is a testament to this. Go to Vermont or Maine and like 60% of cars on the road are subarus. Now imagine if Pentax could tap into that very market of outdoors-men and people who search for adventure. It would draw more people into the system, therefor bringing in more third party support and making it stronger over all.

I'm sorry I went on a bit of a rant, but I'm keeping it in. This is what I would love to see Pentax do. Improve AF performance and improve their marketing.

biz-engineer · 07-19-2016, 01:58 PM - **1 Like**

4K video is already obsolete (before you even had time to use it), now it's going to be 8K.

serothis · 07-19-2016, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by mikeSF

I don't follow this person - do you have a link to the comment you are referencing? thx

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/173-general-photography/325663-thom-hogan...ting-dslr.html

**BigMackCam** · 07-19-2016, 02:45 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

4K video is already obsolete (before you even had time to use it), now it's going to be 8K.

Yes, but almost any technology has been superseded by the time it becomes mainstream... Once we start seeing 8K video in cameras, that - from a technology development perspective - will also be obsolete.

According to industry analysts, only 34% of US households will have a 4K television in 2019. Here in Europe, only 25% of homes will have it, and in Japan - where most people have relatively new TVs due to government eco subsidies, and where the fashion is for smaller TVs than other parts of the world - only 14% are forecasted to have 4K by then.

So, obsolete or not, it's going to be many years before a significant portion of homes even has the ability to benefit from 4K, let alone anything better...

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic!

rawr · 07-19-2016, 03:39 PM - **1 Like**

I think a lot of K-1 improvements could be achieved via a series of upgraded firmware improvements - in relation to auto-focus (eg continuous improvement of predictive algorithms), video features (eg toggle mechanical/digital SR in video, more frame rates) and a whole raft of other things. No need to always think of new hardware.

We've seen some examples of significant new camera features or improvements being added via firmware with Pentax and Ricoh before, and obviously we see it in other brands too (Fuji's rich firmware upgrades for the X series cameras, Samsung firmware for the NX-1, and indeed the whole Canon experience with Magic Lantern).

Speaking of Magic Lantern, imagine if Pentax published a software development kit for the K-1, and allowed 3rd parties to produce modified firmware or firmware add-ons for the K-1 without any hassles ... That in itself would probably drive a huge level of new interest in the K-1, and open up a world of new camera capabilities.

CDW · 07-19-2016, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Yes, but almost any technology has been superseded by the time it becomes mainstream... Once we start seeing 8K video in cameras, that - from a technology development perspective - will also be obsolete.

According to industry analysts, only 34% of US households will have a 4K television in 2019. Here in Europe, only 25% of homes will have it, and in Japan - where most people have relatively new TVs due to government eco subsidies, and where the fashion is for smaller TVs than other parts of the world - only 14% are forecasted to have 4K by then.

So, obsolete or not, it's going to be many years before a significant portion of homes even has the ability to benefit from 4K, let alone anything better...

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic!

8K will be used mostly for acquisition/production rather than distribution. Just as 4K delivers a better than native 1080 image when down converted, we'll see the same thing with 8k being used to produce programming for distribution in 4K.

**Ash** · 07-19-2016, 04:28 PM - **1 Like**

They would have to be careful not to cannibalise their MF offerings with a whiz-bang FF camera that exceeds the 645Z in features. Or else release a 645Z II with the same or better feature set...

**monochrome** · 07-19-2016, 05:42 PM - **1 Like**

asahi man wrote yesterday there is NO other FF camera in development. No plans. Nothing above K-1. Nothing below K-1. They're working on lenses and APSc development.

He said in the K-1 sales thread Sony should be back to full sensor production and shipments by August, but Pentax won't be caught up with existing K-1 orders in the pipeline until December.

They don't need another FF to stimulate sales.

HopelessTogger · 07-19-2016, 05:55 PM

Sort the AF out. Been a struggle on a two day commercial shoot, it's too slow (D-FA* 2.8/70-200). Customise more of the buttons, especially back button AF. Buffer, needs way more. FPS, needs more. Shutter button needs feedback. Scroll wheels must work without half pressing the shutter button between shots (this is really doing my head in).

Other than that, it's perfect.

07-19-2016, 01:13 PM	#1
tomO2013 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 155	K1 mark ii - speculation on development roadmap Hi, As we all know the K1 was just released and as a first digital FF entrant, it's a very solid delivery (along with an initial very solid lens lineup) - HD DFA's 24-70 2.8, 15-30 2.8, 70-200 2.8 and 150-450. Looking to the future and as a full frame system, I have been considering where Pentax will go next. My personal opinion is that they will not wait the typical Canonikon 3/4 year turnover period for their high end pro-dslr's. Obviously as soon as one product is released the development team is already hard at work on a successor, the real question is when and if a successor would come and what it would bring. I think that within a year there will be a K1 iiS or K1 ii with updated USB3, same sensor, bigger buffer/frame rate, possibly upgraded video (4k???) and faster AF performance albeit with the same Safox 12 focus system (assuming they follow the same pattern as happened with K3 and K3ii). I feel that Ricoh would do well to release an updated lens roadmap for owners - similar to the approach that Sony took with development of the A7 series. Anybody have any thoughts - this is not a bash/whats wrong with K1 thread. Theme and topic is what could a future roadmap possibly hold and how agressive/invested are Ricoh in making their FF DSLR's succeed. For what it's worth, I feel that Thom Hogans discussion on mirrorless and DSLR is right on the money - DSLR is not a static tech and as the D500 and D5 demonstrated , AF advantages have once again taken a massive leap frog on mirrorless. i.e. neither mirrorless or DSLR are standing still right now. There is plenty of development opportunity for Pentax right now. Tom.

07-19-2016, 01:58 PM - 1 Like	#8
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	4K video is already obsolete (before you even had time to use it), now it's going to be 8K. Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-19-2016 at 02:07 PM.

07-19-2016, 02:45 PM - 2 Likes	#10
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by biz-engineer 4K video is already obsolete (before you even had time to use it), now it's going to be 8K. Yes, but almost any technology has been superseded by the time it becomes mainstream... Once we start seeing 8K video in cameras, that - from a technology development perspective - will also be obsolete. According to industry analysts, only 34% of US households will have a 4K television in 2019. Here in Europe, only 25% of homes will have it, and in Japan - where most people have relatively new TVs due to government eco subsidies, and where the fashion is for smaller TVs than other parts of the world - only 14% are forecasted to have 4K by then. So, obsolete or not, it's going to be many years before a significant portion of homes even has the ability to benefit from 4K, let alone anything better... Apologies to the OP for going off-topic! Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-19-2016 at 04:06 PM.

07-19-2016, 05:42 PM - 1 Like	#14
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	asahi man wrote yesterday there is NO other FF camera in development. No plans. Nothing above K-1. Nothing below K-1. They're working on lenses and APSc development. He said in the K-1 sales thread Sony should be back to full sensor production and shipments by August, but Pentax won't be caught up with existing K-1 orders in the pipeline until December. They don't need another FF to stimulate sales. Last edited by monochrome; 07-19-2016 at 05:47 PM.

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07-19-2016, 01:26 PM	#2
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Within a year? Too early, IMO. Development takes time. "Same sensor" doesn't work with "bigger frame rate" or "4k".

07-19-2016, 01:29 PM - 1 Like	#3
Paul2660 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 67	What I would like to see: 1. A much better raw converter, other than the software that ships with the camera, which IMO is terrible. Pentax could at least include a coupon for the full version of Silkypix software, to help defray the cost of having to add full Silkypix. Adobe's current attempt to work on pixel shift files, is less than stellar, and their track record on fixes is not very good. I also don't see Phase One coming out with a pixel shift solution either. 2. Much faster buffer or processing algorithm for Pixel shift, as currently it takes about 12 seconds for the camera to write a file which is way way too long. Pentax should have been able to send some of that processing to a buffer that would free up the camera to shoot again in more like 5 seconds. 3. Vastly improved AF, Coming from Nikon, the K1's current AF is lacking but I expected that. 4. Lenses it would be nice to see more D FA primes, or a better partnership with Sigma so that more of the newer Art lenses can be made in the K mount. Pentax could use a much faster super wide in the 14mm to 20mm range, even a F 2.8 would be great. 5. Battery life, Pentax could possible produce a battery with a great milliamp life. Current battery life is about 1/4 less than other comparable brands. 6. Improvements to pixel shift, which allows the photographer to work with motion. Currently even with the motion selection on, you really can't work with outdoor subjects that have much wind movement. Not sure if this is possible, but it would be a nice feature. 7. Consider moving the remote port to the left side of the body? Only camera I have used that has it on the right. 8. Better balance on highlights, as I have found the K1 much less forgiving on highlights, i.e. you really have to meter your clouds as they can go pure white very quickly. 9. Allow full bracketing control in M mode, as currently in M mode, bracketing (brackets) both aperture and shutter speed, something again I have never seen before. This forces you to Av mode as you don't want your aperture to change during a bracketing sequence. Overall a great camera, and it has enough potential that I have started leaving my Nikon's at home. Pixel shift is a true game changer, but needs a lot more focused attention by Pentax, both in raw software (Ricoh needs to work closer with Adobe and Phase One) and buffer/processing speed. 12 total seconds of being locked out of the camera, needs to be dropped by at least 1/2 of that, to more like 5/6 seconds. Paul Caldwell Photos Of Arkansas

07-19-2016, 01:30 PM - 1 Like	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by tomO2013 I feel that Ricoh would do well to release an updated lens roadmap for owners - similar to the approach that Sony took with development of the A7 series. There are 5 D FA lenses on the current roadmap: 2016 Pentax Full Frame Lens Roadmaps - CP+ 2016 \| PentaxForums.com I think this will be the short-term focus, rather than worrying about the body. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-19-2016, 01:33 PM	#5
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Given how long it has taken them to put out the first one - and I mean that in a good sense, because of the care and attention to detail is apparent - I believe at least a 2-year to be more realistic. Also, they don't have infinite resources and many products lines to follow (Q, APS-C, MF and now FF), plus they need to plug the holes in the FF lenses lineup.

07-19-2016, 01:37 PM	#6
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,620	Originally posted by tomO2013 ... For what it's worth, I feel that Thom Hogans discussion on mirrorless and DSLR is right on the money - DSLR is not a static tech and as the D500 and D5 demonstrated , AF advantages have once again taken a massive leap frog on mirrorless. i.e. neither mirrorless or DSLR are standing still right now. There is plenty of development opportunity for Pentax right now. Tom. I don't follow this person - do you have a link to the comment you are referencing? thx

07-19-2016, 01:52 PM - 2 Likes	#7
Ginnipe Junior Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 39	I could see a mk2 version being put out, but not at least until 2018-2019. I would much rather see Pentax put out another flagship APSC camera in the interim than a meagerly updated K1. Across the board though I think Pentax needs to improve two main things. AF performance and marketing. AF performance is the single biggest disadvantage to the Pentax lineup. It isn't bad by any means, but if you're going to pull users from CaNikon, you're going to have to start at the very least matching their 80D / 7200 series performance. This is the single biggest factor that I wish Pentax would work on. I would much rather see them pour resources into bringing their AF to the modern standard than see little niceties like a touch screen or improved Pixel Shift (though I would LOVE both of those features). If I could have my K1 as my go to powerhouse for landscapes and portraits (which is what it currently is) but then get a... K3m3...K2 (I know I know its a film camera I own one)...whatever they're going to call the next APSC Flagship for Sports and Wildlife with comparable AF performance to Canikon I would be a happy camper. This would allow Pentax to fill all the roles a Canon or Nikon can for about half the price. With the new KAF4 mount we may see more third party lenses coming in as well so the already very strong APSC camp will be bolstered while the admirable though small FF line up will be slowly brought to a comparable standard (in terms of both overall amount of lenses and overall amount of of lenses designed for digital sensors). The other thing I'd love to see, as stated above, is better marketing. There is no reason for Pentax to not market their cameras in the way Subaru markets their cars. They're rugged dependable workhorses made for the outdoors with a bit of charm. I would love to see Pentax just take that fact and run with it. Have marketing of people using their cameras rock climbing, Kayaking, out in really rough landscaped with the K1. People love to be outdoors, whether they actually go out often or not is a different story, but people love to do it. Subaru's brand marketing is a testament to this. Go to Vermont or Maine and like 60% of cars on the road are subarus. Now imagine if Pentax could tap into that very market of outdoors-men and people who search for adventure. It would draw more people into the system, therefor bringing in more third party support and making it stronger over all. I'm sorry I went on a bit of a rant, but I'm keeping it in. This is what I would love to see Pentax do. Improve AF performance and improve their marketing.

07-19-2016, 02:06 PM	#9
serothis Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 538	Originally posted by mikeSF I don't follow this person - do you have a link to the comment you are referencing? thx https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/173-general-photography/325663-thom-hogan...ting-dslr.html

07-19-2016, 03:39 PM - 1 Like	#11
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I think a lot of K-1 improvements could be achieved via a series of upgraded firmware improvements - in relation to auto-focus (eg continuous improvement of predictive algorithms), video features (eg toggle mechanical/digital SR in video, more frame rates) and a whole raft of other things. No need to always think of new hardware. We've seen some examples of significant new camera features or improvements being added via firmware with Pentax and Ricoh before, and obviously we see it in other brands too (Fuji's rich firmware upgrades for the X series cameras, Samsung firmware for the NX-1, and indeed the whole Canon experience with Magic Lantern). Speaking of Magic Lantern, imagine if Pentax published a software development kit for the K-1, and allowed 3rd parties to produce modified firmware or firmware add-ons for the K-1 without any hassles ... That in itself would probably drive a huge level of new interest in the K-1, and open up a world of new camera capabilities.

07-19-2016, 04:17 PM	#12
CDW Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Big Island, Hawaii & Utah Posts: 457	Originally posted by BigMackCam Yes, but almost any technology has been superseded by the time it becomes mainstream... Once we start seeing 8K video in cameras, that - from a technology development perspective - will also be obsolete. According to industry analysts, only 34% of US households will have a 4K television in 2019. Here in Europe, only 25% of homes will have it, and in Japan - where most people have relatively new TVs due to government eco subsidies, and where the fashion is for smaller TVs than other parts of the world - only 14% are forecasted to have 4K by then. So, obsolete or not, it's going to be many years before a significant portion of homes even has the ability to benefit from 4K, let alone anything better... Apologies to the OP for going off-topic! 8K will be used mostly for acquisition/production rather than distribution. Just as 4K delivers a better than native 1080 image when down converted, we'll see the same thing with 8k being used to produce programming for distribution in 4K.

07-19-2016, 04:28 PM - 1 Like	#13
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	They would have to be careful not to cannibalise their MF offerings with a whiz-bang FF camera that exceeds the 645Z in features. Or else release a 645Z II with the same or better feature set...

07-19-2016, 05:55 PM	#15
HopelessTogger Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Roi-et, Thailand Posts: 773	Sort the AF out. Been a struggle on a two day commercial shoot, it's too slow (D-FA* 2.8/70-200). Customise more of the buttons, especially back button AF. Buffer, needs way more. FPS, needs more. Shutter button needs feedback. Scroll wheels must work without half pressing the shutter button between shots (this is really doing my head in). Other than that, it's perfect.