K5IIs Vs K-1 crop : anyone tried ?

Ken Pimontel · 08-05-2016, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Class A

The white balance is definitely warmer.

Noise seems slightly better controlled on the K-1.

@Ken Pimontel
How did you develop the images?

Seems like you used ACR.
Given that Adobe applies different processing depending on the camera brand/model, I'd say it would be more reliable to use dcraw or perhaps RAW Therapee for noise comparisons.

I have installed dcraw on my linux station.
What command shoud I run?
Can I crop afterwards in Lightroom?

Thx!

Ken

Class A · 08-06-2016, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Ken Pimontel

What command shoud I run?

Try dcraw -W -M <image-file-name>

If that doesn't work, you may want to look at the manual page for dcraw.

You can try to add "-p" as an option, if you want to use the specific colour profiles the cameras provide.

Originally posted by Ken Pimontel

Can I crop afterwards in Lightroom?

Once the image is in JPG (or really anything other than RAW), LR should behave neutrally, so I think cropping will be fine.

**interested_observer** · 08-14-2016, 02:42 PM

Using the Imaging Resources camera compare page, I see that the K1 at ISO 3200 has about the same noise as the K5IIs at ISO 1600. So, the K1 has at least a 1 stop advantage. ISO 6400 was definitely nosier, so a 2 stop advantage is a bridge too far.

The question that I would have then, with the K1 is the noise at ISO 3200 the same across the full frame as with shooting in the crop mode (on the K1)?

Class A · 08-14-2016, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

The question that I would have then, with the K1 is the noise at ISO 3200 the same across the full frame as with shooting in the crop mode (on the K1)?

No, in crop mode the K-1's image noise is about a stop worse than in full-frame mode because it is not using half of the light it could collect.

Noise at the level of an individual pixel is of course the same, but in the full-frame image more than double as many pixels are used to form an image compared to an APS-C crop.

That's were the "ISO advantage" of the K-1 is coming from.

**interested_observer** · 08-14-2016, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Class A

No, in crop mode the K-1's image noise is about a stop worse than in full-frame mode because it is not using half of the light it could collect.

Noise at the level of an individual pixel is of course the same, but in the full-frame image more than double as many pixels are used to form an image compared to an APS-C crop.

That's were the "ISO advantage" of the K-1 is coming from.

Thanks!! Where I was going with this is that then there would be a possible advantage to shooting with DA lenses in full frame mode, then cropping in post processing. I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage.

Class A · 08-14-2016, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage.

You will, but only if the DA lens allows you to capture more than the APS-C frame it was designed for. If you have to crop to APS-C dimensions in post (in order to avoid image deterioration towards the borders) then you might as well just shoot in crop mode to begin with.

kh1234567890 · 08-14-2016, 11:50 PM - **1 Like**

And yet another fine thread degenerates into total light boll*cks ...

GeneV · 08-15-2016, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by interested_observer

Thanks!! Where I was going with this is that then there would be a possible advantage to shooting with DA lenses in full frame mode, then cropping in post processing. I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage.

That is what I do most of the time, and quite a few of the crop format lenses do perform well at images larger than APS-C, but smaller than FF. However, that is the subject of another thread or two.

**Rondec** · 08-15-2016, 03:02 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kh1234567890

And yet another fine thread degenerates into total light boll*cks ...

What do you think happens when you shoot a larger sensor? One of two things, of course, either you have more pixels of equal size to your APS-C camera or, you have the same number of much bigger pixels. Either way, your performance is better with a larger sensor than with a smaller sensor.

I shoot with APS-C and full frame and am far from a being a full frame advocate. APS-C is more than adequate for most folks, but there is still no doubt that when you print an image (the gold standard in my book) a K-1 high iso image will wipe up the floor with a K3 or K5 II image. It really doesn't matter if you say that it is because the K-1 has more total light or more pixels or just a secret magic chip that lets it shoot better in low light, it just does better, by a little over a stop.

kh1234567890 · 08-15-2016, 09:00 AM

That is not what this thread was about. Any IQ improvement is just a result of the rescaling process. You could get the same by stitching two APS shots and then rescaling the image.

08-14-2016, 02:42 PM	#33
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Using the Imaging Resources camera compare page, I see that the K1 at ISO 3200 has about the same noise as the K5IIs at ISO 1600. So, the K1 has at least a 1 stop advantage. ISO 6400 was definitely nosier, so a 2 stop advantage is a bridge too far. The question that I would have then, with the K1 is the noise at ISO 3200 the same across the full frame as with shooting in the crop mode (on the K1)?

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08-05-2016, 10:28 PM	#31
Ken Pimontel Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 42	Originally posted by Class A The white balance is definitely warmer. Noise seems slightly better controlled on the K-1. @Ken Pimontel How did you develop the images? Seems like you used ACR. Given that Adobe applies different processing depending on the camera brand/model, I'd say it would be more reliable to use dcraw or perhaps RAW Therapee for noise comparisons. I have installed dcraw on my linux station. What command shoud I run? Can I crop afterwards in Lightroom? Thx! Ken

08-06-2016, 04:59 AM	#32
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Ken Pimontel What command shoud I run? Try dcraw -W -M <image-file-name> If that doesn't work, you may want to look at the manual page for dcraw. You can try to add "-p" as an option, if you want to use the specific colour profiles the cameras provide. Originally posted by Ken Pimontel Can I crop afterwards in Lightroom? Once the image is in JPG (or really anything other than RAW), LR should behave neutrally, so I think cropping will be fine.

08-14-2016, 06:52 PM	#34
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by interested_observer The question that I would have then, with the K1 is the noise at ISO 3200 the same across the full frame as with shooting in the crop mode (on the K1)? No, in crop mode the K-1's image noise is about a stop worse than in full-frame mode because it is not using half of the light it could collect. Noise at the level of an individual pixel is of course the same, but in the full-frame image more than double as many pixels are used to form an image compared to an APS-C crop. That's were the "ISO advantage" of the K-1 is coming from.

08-14-2016, 07:05 PM	#35
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Originally posted by Class A No, in crop mode the K-1's image noise is about a stop worse than in full-frame mode because it is not using half of the light it could collect. Noise at the level of an individual pixel is of course the same, but in the full-frame image more than double as many pixels are used to form an image compared to an APS-C crop. That's were the "ISO advantage" of the K-1 is coming from. Thanks!! Where I was going with this is that then there would be a possible advantage to shooting with DA lenses in full frame mode, then cropping in post processing. I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage.

08-14-2016, 07:26 PM	#36
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by interested_observer I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage. You will, but only if the DA lens allows you to capture more than the APS-C frame it was designed for. If you have to crop to APS-C dimensions in post (in order to avoid image deterioration towards the borders) then you might as well just shoot in crop mode to begin with.

08-14-2016, 11:50 PM - 1 Like	#37
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	And yet another fine thread degenerates into total light boll*cks ...

08-15-2016, 12:34 AM	#38
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by interested_observer Thanks!! Where I was going with this is that then there would be a possible advantage to shooting with DA lenses in full frame mode, then cropping in post processing. I would think that then, you should get at least some of the full frame advantage. That is what I do most of the time, and quite a few of the crop format lenses do perform well at images larger than APS-C, but smaller than FF. However, that is the subject of another thread or two.

08-15-2016, 03:02 AM - 1 Like	#39
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by kh1234567890 And yet another fine thread degenerates into total light boll*cks ... What do you think happens when you shoot a larger sensor? One of two things, of course, either you have more pixels of equal size to your APS-C camera or, you have the same number of much bigger pixels. Either way, your performance is better with a larger sensor than with a smaller sensor. I shoot with APS-C and full frame and am far from a being a full frame advocate. APS-C is more than adequate for most folks, but there is still no doubt that when you print an image (the gold standard in my book) a K-1 high iso image will wipe up the floor with a K3 or K5 II image. It really doesn't matter if you say that it is because the K-1 has more total light or more pixels or just a secret magic chip that lets it shoot better in low light, it just does better, by a little over a stop.

08-15-2016, 09:00 AM	#40
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	That is not what this thread was about. Any IQ improvement is just a result of the rescaling process. You could get the same by stitching two APS shots and then rescaling the image.