K-1 Unusable at 1/200 using Studio Strobes???

dvcdude · 08-14-2016, 07:30 AM

I have a Yongnuo 560TX and a pair of 560 IV with no issue. I also have an Adoroma version of the Godox 600 AD and the X wireless trigger with no problem. I have used both together when i did not have line of sight to trigger the Yongnuo and that works fine.

BTW - for a hair light just put the Yongnuo in slave mode and it will fire when your Alien Bees fires.

dcpropilot · 08-14-2016, 03:38 PM

I had the time to investigate this a little more. It looks like both my Alien Bees 800 and 1600 can't go over 1/125 with the K-1 without dark banding on the top of the frame. I tried swapping the 560TX with the RF-605 and same thing. I even tried using optical sync to the AB 800 and 1600 from a remote the Yongnuo 540 IV. No dice. What's interesting is that is I am using the Yongnuo 560 IV on its own, I have no problem with the black banding all the way up to 1/200.

---------- Post added 08-14-2016 at 06:51 PM ----------

Holy cow! I Just used the sync cable directly from my K-1 to the AB1600 and we're in business! AB1600 works awesome at 1/200!

GeneV · 08-14-2016, 03:59 PM

I have the Yongnuo, Cactus V6 and a PC cable. After just finishing a shoot at a dance camp, I can also agree that the Yongnuo is worthless on the K1 at X sync on the Alien Bee. No problems with the Cactus or the cable.

I have used the Yongnuo and Alien Bees successfully for years with Pentax bodies, but I cranked the sync down to 1/125 using the M mode rather than the X. At 1/160, firing was usually fine on the K3, but working "usually" doesn't cut it. Because of connection issues, the Yongnuo is also pretty unreliable on a Sony mirrorless which syncs at 1/125. At this point, these cheap triggers are pretty much history.

**clackers** · 08-15-2016, 01:43 AM

Due to the lag in electronics, I often see pros shooting reliably at 1/125s with wireless triggers when the sync speed of their cameras is higher.

Part of the reason I rolled my eyes whenever people criticized Pentax for having 1/180 sync speed. :-)

RonHendriks1966 · 08-15-2016, 06:24 AM

Use the x-mode on the dial.

pathdoc · 08-15-2016, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by dcpropilot

What's interesting is that is I am using the Yongnuo 560 IV on its own, I have no problem with the black banding all the way up to 1/200.

Originally posted by dcpropilot

I Just used the sync cable directly from my K-1 to the AB1600 and we're in business! AB1600 works awesome at 1/200!

Timing is everything, it would seem. It's actually not often you get black banding on a DSLR, because my K-5 at least will not let the flash fire any faster than sync speed, and I have yet to enter the world of radio triggers; everything for me is on-camera or PC sync cables. I only wish Pentax would provide a tethered plug for the PC Sync port the way they do all the other interfaces; every time I use it, I'm scared I'm going to lose the screw-in cover!! (At the very least, give us a dummy port in some unobtrusive place to which the removed plug can be screwed to stop it from being inadvertently lost.)

**clackers** · 08-15-2016, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Use the x-mode on the dial.

But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron.

I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot.

GeneV · 08-15-2016, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by clackers

But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron.

I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot.

And I can't honestly say I lost much by going from 1/180 down to 1/125. There isn't a huge action stopping difference there, and I'm exposing for the Alien Bee which has a duration of not longer than 1/600.

Wheatfield · 08-15-2016, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by clackers

But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron.

I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot.

The other option is to buy something better quality like Pocket Wizards. I know they have no problem keeping up with the 1/250th sync on the top end Nikons.
They do cost, but they are reliable, and they don't lag.

dvcdude · 08-16-2016, 02:55 AM

I always shoot flash in Manual and normally at 125 or 160. I do not use the X mode because it restricts me to 200. Is there a reason why the OP needs to shoot at 200? I have attended several lighting classes and seminars and even Tony Corbell shot at 125 F8 to F13 depending on the look he wanted.

pathdoc · 08-16-2016, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by dvcdude

Is there a reason why the OP needs to shoot at 200?

I've seen quite a few videos done on youtube (Gavin Hoey and Mark Wallace on Adorama) where the aim (stated or implied) is basically to shoot at as high a sync speed as possible in order to kill all ambient light with apertures that still give them blurred backgrounds (e.g. avoiding any issues with daylight and fluoro or tungsten clashes) and keep control of everything with flash.

Class A · 08-16-2016, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by clackers

I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot.

Another motivation to shoot at 1/125s is get a bit more out of your flash. A typical flash will not manage to dump all of its energy within 1/180s at full power (1/1).

I once did some measurements and got more contribution from the flash up to about 1/125s.

BTW, every radio trigger -- PWs are no exception -- introduces a bit of lag, but unless one is dealing with really bad ones, the lag is so small that it does not interfere at regular sync-speeds. Triggers that do not manage 1/180s reliably are pretty rare. A trigger definitely does not need to be expensive to manage 1/180s (or 1/200s for the K-1).

swanlefitte · 08-16-2016, 11:06 AM

On a cloudy day. Its downpouring actually. They don't need this north of the lake here in LA.
To kill the ambient light and eliminate the bright graffiti across the street at 125th i need f16. By 250th f11. In brighter light i pass f22 quickly at 125th. Its nice to have.

simbon4o · 08-16-2016, 12:28 PM

560TX is a very fast trigger, I always get even faster speeds than the official sync speed of the camera. About the 602... they must be good.

Jalexo · 08-16-2016, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by dcpropilot

1/200 isn't too usable to me using my Alien Bees B1600. There is some varying banding on the top of the frame, but it appears to go away at shutter speeds faster than 1/200. I'm not sure, I could be doing something wrong or if there's something wrong with my shutter.

Shot in portrait orientation (black banding on the left)

It´s probably something basic, but I don´t know If you noticed there´s a flash shutter speed setting in K1 menu as opposed to other models.
Have you checked the speed is not set up for something below 1/200s, if I remember correctly there´s setting for 1/125, 1/160, 1/180.
Page 30 on the manual, Custom Menu 1 - Item 7 - Flash Sync Speed.
Hope it helps, I have used three types of triggers all working fine.

08-14-2016, 03:59 PM	#18
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	I have the Yongnuo, Cactus V6 and a PC cable. After just finishing a shoot at a dance camp, I can also agree that the Yongnuo is worthless on the K1 at X sync on the Alien Bee. No problems with the Cactus or the cable. I have used the Yongnuo and Alien Bees successfully for years with Pentax bodies, but I cranked the sync down to 1/125 using the M mode rather than the X. At 1/160, firing was usually fine on the K3, but working "usually" doesn't cut it. Because of connection issues, the Yongnuo is also pretty unreliable on a Sony mirrorless which syncs at 1/125. At this point, these cheap triggers are pretty much history. Last edited by GeneV; 08-14-2016 at 04:12 PM.

08-16-2016, 03:07 PM	#30
Jalexo New Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 6	Originally posted by dcpropilot 1/200 isn't too usable to me using my Alien Bees B1600. There is some varying banding on the top of the frame, but it appears to go away at shutter speeds faster than 1/200. I'm not sure, I could be doing something wrong or if there's something wrong with my shutter. Shot in portrait orientation (black banding on the left) It´s probably something basic, but I don´t know If you noticed there´s a flash shutter speed setting in K1 menu as opposed to other models. Have you checked the speed is not set up for something below 1/200s, if I remember correctly there´s setting for 1/125, 1/160, 1/180. Page 30 on the manual, Custom Menu 1 - Item 7 - Flash Sync Speed. Hope it helps, I have used three types of triggers all working fine. Last edited by Jalexo; 08-16-2016 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Aditional info

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08-14-2016, 07:30 AM	#16
dvcdude Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 33	I have a Yongnuo 560TX and a pair of 560 IV with no issue. I also have an Adoroma version of the Godox 600 AD and the X wireless trigger with no problem. I have used both together when i did not have line of sight to trigger the Yongnuo and that works fine. BTW - for a hair light just put the Yongnuo in slave mode and it will fire when your Alien Bees fires.

08-14-2016, 03:38 PM	#17
dcpropilot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 941 Original Poster	I had the time to investigate this a little more. It looks like both my Alien Bees 800 and 1600 can't go over 1/125 with the K-1 without dark banding on the top of the frame. I tried swapping the 560TX with the RF-605 and same thing. I even tried using optical sync to the AB 800 and 1600 from a remote the Yongnuo 540 IV. No dice. What's interesting is that is I am using the Yongnuo 560 IV on its own, I have no problem with the black banding all the way up to 1/200. ---------- Post added 08-14-2016 at 06:51 PM ---------- Holy cow! I Just used the sync cable directly from my K-1 to the AB1600 and we're in business! AB1600 works awesome at 1/200!

08-15-2016, 01:43 AM	#19
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Due to the lag in electronics, I often see pros shooting reliably at 1/125s with wireless triggers when the sync speed of their cameras is higher. Part of the reason I rolled my eyes whenever people criticized Pentax for having 1/180 sync speed. :-)

08-15-2016, 06:24 AM	#20
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Use the x-mode on the dial.

08-15-2016, 09:05 AM	#21
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by dcpropilot What's interesting is that is I am using the Yongnuo 560 IV on its own, I have no problem with the black banding all the way up to 1/200. Originally posted by dcpropilot I Just used the sync cable directly from my K-1 to the AB1600 and we're in business! AB1600 works awesome at 1/200! Timing is everything, it would seem. It's actually not often you get black banding on a DSLR, because my K-5 at least will not let the flash fire any faster than sync speed, and I have yet to enter the world of radio triggers; everything for me is on-camera or PC sync cables. I only wish Pentax would provide a tethered plug for the PC Sync port the way they do all the other interfaces; every time I use it, I'm scared I'm going to lose the screw-in cover!! (At the very least, give us a dummy port in some unobtrusive place to which the removed plug can be screwed to stop it from being inadvertently lost.)

08-15-2016, 07:17 PM	#22
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Use the x-mode on the dial. But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron. I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot.

08-15-2016, 08:36 PM	#23
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by clackers But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron. I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot. And I can't honestly say I lost much by going from 1/180 down to 1/125. There isn't a huge action stopping difference there, and I'm exposing for the Alien Bee which has a duration of not longer than 1/600.

08-15-2016, 08:44 PM	#24
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by clackers But the issue is not the camera or the strobe but lag in the electronic trigger, Ron. I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot. The other option is to buy something better quality like Pocket Wizards. I know they have no problem keeping up with the 1/250th sync on the top end Nikons. They do cost, but they are reliable, and they don't lag.

08-16-2016, 02:55 AM	#25
dvcdude Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 33	I always shoot flash in Manual and normally at 125 or 160. I do not use the X mode because it restricts me to 200. Is there a reason why the OP needs to shoot at 200? I have attended several lighting classes and seminars and even Tony Corbell shot at 125 F8 to F13 depending on the look he wanted.

08-16-2016, 04:13 AM	#26
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by dvcdude Is there a reason why the OP needs to shoot at 200? I've seen quite a few videos done on youtube (Gavin Hoey and Mark Wallace on Adorama) where the aim (stated or implied) is basically to shoot at as high a sync speed as possible in order to kill all ambient light with apertures that still give them blurred backgrounds (e.g. avoiding any issues with daylight and fluoro or tungsten clashes) and keep control of everything with flash.

08-16-2016, 06:24 AM	#27
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by clackers I've seen pros dial down to 1/160s or even 1/125s because they don't want to put up with the occasional dud shot. Another motivation to shoot at 1/125s is get a bit more out of your flash. A typical flash will not manage to dump all of its energy within 1/180s at full power (1/1). I once did some measurements and got more contribution from the flash up to about 1/125s. BTW, every radio trigger -- PWs are no exception -- introduces a bit of lag, but unless one is dealing with really bad ones, the lag is so small that it does not interfere at regular sync-speeds. Triggers that do not manage 1/180s reliably are pretty rare. A trigger definitely does not need to be expensive to manage 1/180s (or 1/200s for the K-1).

08-16-2016, 11:06 AM	#28
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	On a cloudy day. Its downpouring actually. They don't need this north of the lake here in LA. To kill the ambient light and eliminate the bright graffiti across the street at 125th i need f16. By 250th f11. In brighter light i pass f22 quickly at 125th. Its nice to have.

08-16-2016, 12:28 PM	#29
simbon4o Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 258	560TX is a very fast trigger, I always get even faster speeds than the official sync speed of the camera. About the 602... they must be good.