Slow Pentax AF.... ha, eat my shorts

**macman24054** · 11-03-2016, 11:01 PM - **1 Like**

I have read and watched numerous reviews that have found Pentax AF to be in the ballpark with Canikon as far as AF speed. And the majority of these reviews conclude that the Pentax AF system is more accurate at locking focus on the intended subject. I myself would rather have slightly slower but more accurate. What good is it lock focus lightning fast on something that was not meant to be the focal point. Pentax works for me and many of us here. So that is good for enough for me.

biz-engineer · 11-04-2016, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I might if I have the time.

I don't know if it was a clear statement. I wrote that if I set AFC to center point only and focus on a bird that is not covered by that AF point, the K1 focuses on the bird. How could the camera be able to do this is it wasn't using the AE sensor for AF?

mohb · 11-04-2016, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by macman24054

Pentax works for me and many of us here. So that is good for enough for me.

That just about sums it up, no need for endless threads.

Dan Rentea · 11-04-2016, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by normhead

How can you accept, the Canon, and Nikon are better than Pentax, word of mouth, and then challenge an actual testing site, providing actual numbers, and drawing conclusions from their testing data?

Or in short, just to be obnoxious, I'm going to challenge the Nikon and Canon have better AF, because i have never seen any data to support it. Like not ever, even before the K-1. The only real time tests I've seen showed a K-5 to be as fast in AF as a D7000, and that was 5 years ago. I have one test saying the K-1 AF is very good for a full frame, if you are going to challenge that, surely you have to provide something as technical basis for your argument? Something other than "I don't understand their methodology" which is more likely an admission of stupidity than a commentary on their conclusions.

Normhead, you have to decide which one can be considered facts:
- test reports from the internet (including DPreview, DXO, Imaging Resource, The Camera Store TV, etc.)
- people who uses different systems and give feedback (sometimes people find out that Pentax has slower Af than competition by trying multiple cameras/lenses from different brands, others finds out that Pentax has the same or better Af than competition, etc.)

If you ask me, both metods from above can give you some hints, but that's it. The best sollution (at least in my opinion) is to go to the store and rent the equivalent cameras and lenses from different brands and see for yourself the strenghts and weakness of each, based on your needs.

So (for me) charts, online reviews and feedbacks from forum members worth reading only because I can take a closer look on the weak points which they find on their reviews. But, at the end of the day I'm paying the money for the gear and I want it to satisfy my needs, not someone else's needs.

For someone who's using prefocusing technique and manual focus often (as you said more than once), getting into a "debate" about af speed and accuracy between brands based on some internet review it's...I don't know how to say it other than strange.

As you can see, there are people satisfied and happy with K1's Af. That's all that matter. It's as good or better than competition? Imaging Resources can't tell me that. It's a decision that I, you or someone else can take after putting our hands on K1, D810, 5DsR, A7RII and shoot with them under the same condition. We can be wrong with our final choices and conclusions in other people's eyes, but at least it's our decision and we don't rely on the conclusions from Imaging Resource, DPreview, DXO, etc.

Blacknight659 · 11-04-2016, 06:24 AM

I don't think there are a lot of Pentax haters. Most of the bad news comes from fans who want something more from their camera.

I think the people who "need" blazing fast AF need to purchase the camera they need and stop complaining about the camera they have. For the rest of us, lets just enjoy the great system we have.

normhead · 11-04-2016, 06:31 AM

So many really serious people, it's scary. This is an "in your face" thread for every person who's come at me with the Canikon AF is better. I know you all want to have a big discussion about it.and define what it means. All I'm saying is way to many discussions including buying advice have gone down the Canikon have better AF road. This is a response to those folks, and ammunition for the next time some one trots out that particular argument.

And that's how I see it, ammunition, not information, I don't even care what it means.

But if you guys want to tear it apart and figure out what it means, have at her.

What this is , is "in your face Canikons". And for that it's perfectly acceptable.

And despite the everyone's insistence to the contrary, that has happened on this forum hundreds o times including overtime someone asks for camera buying advice. Someone always says, "Canon and Nikon have faster AF." So protestations of reasonableness aside, I'm putting this info out there, for next time some one posts the nonsense. It's not useful information, it's "in your face" information. And for that, it's great.

And if every Canikon user was as reasonable as you guys seem to think they all are, I wouldn't even be down this road. Every Canikon user trolling the forum wants to rub Canikon AF in our face. Well this is "right back at you" info.

But don't let me stop you, continue figuring out exactly what it means.

Then give everyone advice on how to buy cameras.

I can't believe all the dudes who are trying to take a thread with "eat my shorts" in the title seriously.

wibbly · 11-04-2016, 08:33 AM

I absolutely cannot begin to understand how you care so much about this

Pentax is just another company, who gives a crap? why do you have to constantly compare? are you hoping to feel smug about your choice?

this thread reminds me of the ford/dodge/chev arguments than single brain-celled rednecks have with each other.

it literally could not matter less.

normhead · 11-04-2016, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by wibbly

I absolutely cannot begin to understand how you care so much about this

Pentax is just another company, who gives a crap? why do you have to constantly compare? are you hoping to feel smug about your choice?

this thread reminds me of the ford/dodge/chev arguments than single brain-celled rednecks have with each other.

it literally could not matter less.

And I absolutely can't understand why you're still making serious comments in a thread that has "eat my shorts" in the title.

OI guess it doesn't matter how stupid thread it is, some guys just have to come on and get all serious.

That being said I do find the responses interesting... it's like throw something out there and see who get's sucked in.

OK< now I feel like I did something mean.

So right back at you dude. I absolutely cannot understand why you would characterize me as someone who cares about it. Or why you would post in a thread you insist you don't care about. We are obviously striking some nerves here.

Oh I get it now, you'd be happy if i only cared about things you care about... eat my shorts dude.

wibbly · 11-04-2016, 09:08 AM

not at all. i'm not the one writing essays about it.

normhead · 11-04-2016, 09:20 AM

Whatever dude...

stevebrot · 11-04-2016, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I don't know if it was a clear statement. I wrote that if I set AFC to center point only and focus on a bird that is not covered by that AF point, the K1 focuses on the bird. How could the camera be able to do this is it wasn't using the AE sensor for AF?

If true, this behavior is bothersome. The last thing I want is for the camera to decide the subject is other than where I indicate the point of focus should be. I don't care how compelling, bright, or colorful the bird may be.

Are you able to provide an uncropped example image?

Steve

normhead · 11-04-2016, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

If true, this behavior is bothersome. The last thing I want is for the camera to decide the subject is other than where I indicate the point of focus should be. I don't care how compelling, bright, or colorful the bird may be.

Are you able to provide an uncropped example image?

Steve

I've also noticed similar behaviour, but haven't been able to replicate it. When i use the 1.7x, it reduces your options in AF.s to centre point only, I sometimes see the camera focusing on the bird off the centre point. It's kind of freaky, but it does get me some images. There may be a sequence of events that just tricks me into thinking that it might be happening, in either case, I understand what biz-engineer is referring to. I haven't myself come to the conclusion he has, I don't think about it that much, but I can confirm sometimes, something is happening that is performance that is a little different than what you'd expect, based on centre point only focus.

stevebrot · 11-04-2016, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Blacknight659

I don't think there are a lot of Pentax haters. Most of the bad news comes from fans who want something more from their camera.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!!

Steve

stevebrot · 11-04-2016, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I sometimes see the camera focusing on the bird off the centre point. It's kind of freaky...

I would be totally freaked!!

Steve

biz-engineer · 11-04-2016, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Are you able to provide an uncropped example image?

I have a few of them all in focus , groups of cranes flying passing over me. I don't remember which is which. What I remember is that the camera focused on the cranes and the center point blinked red which astonished me in a good way "wow, that camera is able to focus even if I miss the target".

---------- Post added 04-11-16 at 18:58 ----------

Should I return the K1 camera back to Ricoh saying AF does not behave like a normal Pentax where normally you should miss the shot?

11-04-2016, 06:31 AM	#36
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	So many really serious people, it's scary. This is an "in your face" thread for every person who's come at me with the Canikon AF is better. I know you all want to have a big discussion about it.and define what it means. All I'm saying is way to many discussions including buying advice have gone down the Canikon have better AF road. This is a response to those folks, and ammunition for the next time some one trots out that particular argument. And that's how I see it, ammunition, not information, I don't even care what it means. But if you guys want to tear it apart and figure out what it means, have at her. What this is , is "in your face Canikons". And for that it's perfectly acceptable. And despite the everyone's insistence to the contrary, that has happened on this forum hundreds o times including overtime someone asks for camera buying advice. Someone always says, "Canon and Nikon have faster AF." So protestations of reasonableness aside, I'm putting this info out there, for next time some one posts the nonsense. It's not useful information, it's "in your face" information. And for that, it's great. And if every Canikon user was as reasonable as you guys seem to think they all are, I wouldn't even be down this road. Every Canikon user trolling the forum wants to rub Canikon AF in our face. Well this is "right back at you" info. But don't let me stop you, continue figuring out exactly what it means. Then give everyone advice on how to buy cameras. I can't believe all the dudes who are trying to take a thread with "eat my shorts" in the title seriously. Last edited by normhead; 11-04-2016 at 06:40 AM.

11-04-2016, 08:57 AM	#38
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by wibbly I absolutely cannot begin to understand how you care so much about this Pentax is just another company, who gives a crap? why do you have to constantly compare? are you hoping to feel smug about your choice? this thread reminds me of the ford/dodge/chev arguments than single brain-celled rednecks have with each other. it literally could not matter less. And I absolutely can't understand why you're still making serious comments in a thread that has "eat my shorts" in the title. OI guess it doesn't matter how stupid thread it is, some guys just have to come on and get all serious. That being said I do find the responses interesting... it's like throw something out there and see who get's sucked in. OK< now I feel like I did something mean. So right back at you dude. I absolutely cannot understand why you would characterize me as someone who cares about it. Or why you would post in a thread you insist you don't care about. We are obviously striking some nerves here. Oh I get it now, you'd be happy if i only cared about things you care about... eat my shorts dude. Last edited by normhead; 11-04-2016 at 09:04 AM.

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11-03-2016, 11:01 PM - 1 Like	#31
macman24054 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Axton, VA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 461	I have read and watched numerous reviews that have found Pentax AF to be in the ballpark with Canikon as far as AF speed. And the majority of these reviews conclude that the Pentax AF system is more accurate at locking focus on the intended subject. I myself would rather have slightly slower but more accurate. What good is it lock focus lightning fast on something that was not meant to be the focal point. Pentax works for me and many of us here. So that is good for enough for me.

11-04-2016, 12:13 AM	#32
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by rawr I might if I have the time. I don't know if it was a clear statement. I wrote that if I set AFC to center point only and focus on a bird that is not covered by that AF point, the K1 focuses on the bird. How could the camera be able to do this is it wasn't using the AE sensor for AF?

11-04-2016, 02:21 AM	#33
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by macman24054 Pentax works for me and many of us here. So that is good for enough for me. That just about sums it up, no need for endless threads.

11-04-2016, 06:02 AM	#34
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by normhead How can you accept, the Canon, and Nikon are better than Pentax, word of mouth, and then challenge an actual testing site, providing actual numbers, and drawing conclusions from their testing data? Or in short, just to be obnoxious, I'm going to challenge the Nikon and Canon have better AF, because i have never seen any data to support it. Like not ever, even before the K-1. The only real time tests I've seen showed a K-5 to be as fast in AF as a D7000, and that was 5 years ago. I have one test saying the K-1 AF is very good for a full frame, if you are going to challenge that, surely you have to provide something as technical basis for your argument? Something other than "I don't understand their methodology" which is more likely an admission of stupidity than a commentary on their conclusions. Normhead, you have to decide which one can be considered facts: - test reports from the internet (including DPreview, DXO, Imaging Resource, The Camera Store TV, etc.) - people who uses different systems and give feedback (sometimes people find out that Pentax has slower Af than competition by trying multiple cameras/lenses from different brands, others finds out that Pentax has the same or better Af than competition, etc.) If you ask me, both metods from above can give you some hints, but that's it. The best sollution (at least in my opinion) is to go to the store and rent the equivalent cameras and lenses from different brands and see for yourself the strenghts and weakness of each, based on your needs. So (for me) charts, online reviews and feedbacks from forum members worth reading only because I can take a closer look on the weak points which they find on their reviews. But, at the end of the day I'm paying the money for the gear and I want it to satisfy my needs, not someone else's needs. For someone who's using prefocusing technique and manual focus often (as you said more than once), getting into a "debate" about af speed and accuracy between brands based on some internet review it's...I don't know how to say it other than strange. As you can see, there are people satisfied and happy with K1's Af. That's all that matter. It's as good or better than competition? Imaging Resources can't tell me that. It's a decision that I, you or someone else can take after putting our hands on K1, D810, 5DsR, A7RII and shoot with them under the same condition. We can be wrong with our final choices and conclusions in other people's eyes, but at least it's our decision and we don't rely on the conclusions from Imaging Resource, DPreview, DXO, etc.

11-04-2016, 06:24 AM	#35
Blacknight659 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	I don't think there are a lot of Pentax haters. Most of the bad news comes from fans who want something more from their camera. I think the people who "need" blazing fast AF need to purchase the camera they need and stop complaining about the camera they have. For the rest of us, lets just enjoy the great system we have.

11-04-2016, 08:33 AM	#37
wibbly Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Edmonton Posts: 600	I absolutely cannot begin to understand how you care so much about this Pentax is just another company, who gives a crap? why do you have to constantly compare? are you hoping to feel smug about your choice? this thread reminds me of the ford/dodge/chev arguments than single brain-celled rednecks have with each other. it literally could not matter less.

11-04-2016, 09:08 AM	#39
wibbly Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Edmonton Posts: 600	not at all. i'm not the one writing essays about it.

11-04-2016, 09:20 AM	#40
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Whatever dude...

11-04-2016, 09:21 AM	#41
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by biz-engineer I don't know if it was a clear statement. I wrote that if I set AFC to center point only and focus on a bird that is not covered by that AF point, the K1 focuses on the bird. How could the camera be able to do this is it wasn't using the AE sensor for AF? If true, this behavior is bothersome. The last thing I want is for the camera to decide the subject is other than where I indicate the point of focus should be. I don't care how compelling, bright, or colorful the bird may be. Are you able to provide an uncropped example image? Steve

11-04-2016, 09:26 AM	#42
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot If true, this behavior is bothersome. The last thing I want is for the camera to decide the subject is other than where I indicate the point of focus should be. I don't care how compelling, bright, or colorful the bird may be. Are you able to provide an uncropped example image? Steve I've also noticed similar behaviour, but haven't been able to replicate it. When i use the 1.7x, it reduces your options in AF.s to centre point only, I sometimes see the camera focusing on the bird off the centre point. It's kind of freaky, but it does get me some images. There may be a sequence of events that just tricks me into thinking that it might be happening, in either case, I understand what biz-engineer is referring to. I haven't myself come to the conclusion he has, I don't think about it that much, but I can confirm sometimes, something is happening that is performance that is a little different than what you'd expect, based on centre point only focus.

11-04-2016, 09:40 AM	#43
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Blacknight659 I don't think there are a lot of Pentax haters. Most of the bad news comes from fans who want something more from their camera. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! Steve

11-04-2016, 09:47 AM	#44
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by normhead I sometimes see the camera focusing on the bird off the centre point. It's kind of freaky... I would be totally freaked!! Steve

11-04-2016, 10:54 AM	#45
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by stevebrot Are you able to provide an uncropped example image? I have a few of them all in focus , groups of cranes flying passing over me. I don't remember which is which. What I remember is that the camera focused on the cranes and the center point blinked red which astonished me in a good way "wow, that camera is able to focus even if I miss the target". ---------- Post added 04-11-16 at 18:58 ---------- Should I return the K1 camera back to Ricoh saying AF does not behave like a normal Pentax where normally you should miss the shot?