[MJKoski]

Yesterday I was shooting star trails in a valley with a river flowing nearby. It is usually not this cold in november but temps dropped to -21C locally with high humitidy present.

After an hour or so I was ready to relocate myself and noticed that one of the four poles had frozen in extended position in its rail as I always tend to keep the lcd away from the body during long exposures. Anyway, it did not feel right to move it with force.

Is there any safe antifreeze substance I can stuff in the rails to prevent this? I expect -35C temps and long shooting sessions during the winter period.

[funktionsfrei]

as I always tend to keep the lcd away from the body during long exposures.

Why? As long as it's turned off, it won't do any harm. And even when turned on, it does not produce much heat (in comparison to older, CCFL-backlighted displays, which had a far higher energy consumption).

[biz-engineer]

Is there any safe antifreeze substance I can stuff in the rails to prevent this? I expect -35C temps and long shooting sessions during the winter period.

I don't know, but would you stand in bikini like your K1 by -21C ? While topless could do fine in summer time, I suggest you dress up your K1 with Gore Tex suit for winter times: Gore-tex | Bill Campbell Photography

[screwdriver222]

I wouldn't use antifreeze in case it corrodes the metal or damages the seals. There are hand warmers - little pouches you squeeze to activate and put into your gloves- they might work if you put one in amongst the legs, then when the screen can move you can put the pouch in your glove to keep your hand warm.

Jeff

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Last edited by screwdriver222; 11-13-2016 at 05:35 AM. Reason: spelling

[MJKoski]

I composed my shot lcd pulled out before letting camera do its work. That is why I let it out.

Hand warmer might work but it may warm the sensor as well. I will try antifreeze if I find one which does not corrode the support mechanism parts.

[biz-engineer]

I will try antifreeze if I find one which does not corrode the support mechanism parts.

Don't complain that Pentax isn't not good if you have issues with LCD due to anti-freeze spray containing solvent. Also, if you damage the K1 don't complain that Pentax do not accept to repair it out of guarantee. If you want to inject sold anti-freeze spray on a camera, do it on a Canon or Nikon.

[MJKoski]

How was this articulating screen mechanism tested in the field before production? That is the question. Yes -21C is out of the specced operation range but who gives a damn about it when best stuff happens at -30C and colder. So there must be a way to work around it as I use it all the time with every composition. Sony's (A7R2) tilt mechanism also froze but it is much more weaker anyway in strength.

If someone has solid advice how to prevent this without destroying the body structures then please tell about it. Hand warmer stuffed in there prevents all kind of motion of the tilt base.

[Gimbal]

Ice does that to mechanical things. Living up north I thought you would know that by know.
Don't let water, snow, ice or breath get behind the LCD. Especially if the camera is warm (coming from the car or house) so that snow/ice melts at contact, only to freeze moments later.

[jatrax]

If someone has solid advice how to prevent this without destroying the body structures then please tell about it.

Without knowing why it "froze" advice might be a little difficult. I would not under any circumstances use anti-freeze near the camera much less on it.

I think first you should determine why the leg froze. I can think of two possibilities:

• due to high humidity some ice formed in the mechanism. In this case, warming or anti-freeze would melt the ice or prevent it and thus fix the problem. But I still would not use anti-freeze.
• due to the low temperature there was some differential metal shrinkage that caused the mechanism to bind. In this case warming might help but anti-freeze would not.

If this is a one off and never happens again I would say the precise positioning of the legs caused them to bind at extreme temperatures. A slightly different positioning might have gone through the same temperatures without any issue.

If this occurs regularly and you often shoot in those conditions consider a warming device, either those chemical hand warmers or something electrical. Yes the hand warmers would prevent LCD movement, but no reason you cannot remove the hand warmer, re-position the LCD and then replace the warmer. Is this ideal? No, but you are not operating in ideal conditions either.

[stevebrot]

How was this articulating screen mechanism tested in the field before production? That is the question. Yes -21C is out of the specced operation range

Yes, -21C is out of spec. Why you would expect the articulation struts or any other part of the camera to work under those conditions is beyond me. I know a few wildlife photography pros who have been doing winter work for decades and they use supplemental heat along with an external power source to keep their gear working. BTW...I am surprised your battery is still operational.


Steve

[MJKoski]

High humitidy caused the problem most likely. It started to accumulate on trees in that timeframe as well. Some ice formed on the lens barrel as well but not on the front lens fortunately. There was very slight breeze coming from the riverside which moved the mist around and boom! Kind of hoarfrost condition which is normal in Lapland at this time of the year. Only one of the poles was fully extended (moved to the other end of the rail) and that was the one which froze in place.

I have used D3x, D800E, D810 and 1Ds3 in those conditions a lot without any warming devices. D3x and 1Ds work for very long time thanks to their large battery. D8x0 needs some spares. Sony A7r1 and r2 have also survived but they need a bag full of batteries or warmed up USB powerpack (R2). K-1 battery worked VERY nicely - I took 150x 30 second exposures in a row and battery indicator was one tick lower from full condition after it. That is better than D810 or D800E did.

[JinDesu]

I'm confused. If the concern is to unfreeze it after your shots so that you can pack the gear, why not use the hand warmer as suggested? The poles are small and unlikely to take a large amount of heat and time to unfreeze them enough to pack, and it's not like the sensor will be affected at that time.

If the concern is to keep the poles unfrozen during the shoot, that might be quite difficult. Any joints on the articulation pole could be adversely affected by an anti-moisture repellant, and to be fair when it's that cold, even anti-moisture coating may not keep snow from collecting on top and then freezing anyways.

[MJKoski]

Yes yes, to keep the poles unfrozen during the shooting where it stays on tripod the whole time. That is what I am after. Because there will be periods when the camera is exposed to the cold for hours and hours. Many days a week. I will try to stuff some lock de-icer in the rails and see what happens next time the temps go low. If the camera dies, then it dies. I accept that risk.

[JinDesu]

The concern isn't so much that the camera is going to die randomly, but that the small joints in the articulation arms will react badly to any non-lubricating liquids being introduced into them. But that said, if you accept the responsibility, then that's your choice. I don't know of any coating that makes things freeze resistant. Most products in this category tend to be hydrophobic to prevent water from staying and freezing.

[MJKoski]

The de-icer I will try out has lubricating elements. A7r2 worked for hours in such conditions but its tilt screen froze to upright position after 15 minutes of staying there.



Any movement caused nasty creaking sound so I kept it like that. But there is always a risk of tumbling and crashing into the snow everywhere with snowshoes so its 50/60 chances to survive for the poor camera.