[yozza]

At a photo shoot yesterday in which i was using my k1 up against quite a few people who were using 5d mark 3's, i noticed just how different the shots turned out. The main difference being that many of mine were soft or out of focus. I realised that single point focus on the k1 is very tough to see through the viewfinder so getting sharp onto the subjects eye was very hit or miss and a hope for the best scenario. As i shoot primarally all portraits and or full body shots this is quite a concern for me.

I'd be interested in your opinions on this, as i am looking at switching to the mark 3 which is of similar standard to k1, but af/seeing an illuminated focus point/even slightly bigger is very good.

[stevebrot]

A few other users have complained that the focus point on the K-1 is difficult to see. If the 5D III is easier for you to use, it may be a better match for you if you don't mind only having 22 Mpx resolution. That being said, may I point out that putting fine focus on the eye on a full body shot requires some skill regardless of system used. It is a small point at that distance with competing surfaces in close proximity.*

BTW...you have already posted regarding your difficulties with focus points and received many good hints and recommendations.


Steve

* Things like nose, cheek bones, brows, and possible ear (depending on pose). BTW, the "focus on eye" desire for full length or environmental portraits has always intrigued me since the model often has other features closer to/further from the camera that should also be in reasonably sharp focus (e.g. breast-line, clothing details, shoulders, nose, brows, hair, hands, and such). If DOF is so shallow that missed focus on eye is detectable at normal viewing distance, all of the former list would be compromised as well.

[C_Jones]

The focus indicator (hexagon) in "Spot" mode, the beep focus indicator, and view through the viewfinder are enough for me during shooting (using the shutter half press). Necessary depth of field and shutter speed to accommodate the subject type/motion are also imperative.

[yozza]

A few other users have complained that the focus point on the K-1 is difficult to see. If the 5D III is easier for you to use, it may be a better match for you if you don't mind only having 22 Mpx resolution. That being said, may I point out that putting fine focus on the eye on a full body shot requires some skill regardless of system used. It is a small point at that distance with competing surfaces in close proximity.*

BTW...you have already posted regarding your difficulties with focus points and received many good hints and recommendations.


Steve

* Things like nose, cheek bones, brows, and possible ear (depending on pose). BTW, the "focus on eye" desire for full length or environmental portraits has always intrigued me since the model often has other features closer to/further from the camera that should also be in reasonably sharp focus (e.g. breast-line, clothing details, shoulders, nose, brows, hair, hands, and such). If DOF is so shallow that missed focus on eye is detectable at normal viewing distance, all of the former list would be compromised as well.

Hi Steve,

Yes i just realised that. For shooting online i think 22 mp is enough. I'd rather to be able to see where i am focusing much clearer

Thanks

[stevebrot]

Hi Steve,

Yes i just realised that. For shooting online i think 22 mp is enough. I'd rather to be able to see where i am focusing much clearer

Thanks

For posting online, 10 Mpx is overkill. Out of curiosity, do you have the viewfinder diopter correctly adjusted? It is much easier to see the focus point indicator if the screen is in focus. The focus area brackets and center spot meter circle should be sharp when the diopter is properly adjusted.


Steve

[yozza]

For posting online, 10 Mpx is overkill. Out of curiosity, do you have the viewfinder diopter correctly adjusted? It is much easier to see the focus point indicator if the screen is in focus. The focus area brackets and center spot meter circle should be sharp when the diopter is properly adjusted.


Steve

Hi

I do yes

[UncleVanya]

Have you tried a K-3 - I realize it isn't FF but it is 24MP and plenty for online posts. The focus point indication is a bright red dot and while the AF can miss because the focus point is larger than the dot implies I have very good results with AF portraits most of the time.

OP had a K-3 earlier I forgot from past threads. Nevermind.

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Last edited by UncleVanya; 12-18-2016 at 01:11 PM.

[wibbly]

have you fine adjusted your lenses? perhaps you are attributing a problem to something that isn't the cause.

[lithedreamer]

At a photo shoot yesterday in which i was using my k1 up against quite a few people who were using 5d mark 3's, i noticed just how different the shots turned out. The main difference being that many of mine were soft or out of focus. I realised that single point focus on the k1 is very tough to see through the viewfinder so getting sharp onto the subjects eye was very hit or miss and a hope for the best scenario. As i shoot primarally all portraits and or full body shots this is quite a concern for me.

I'd be interested in your opinions on this, as i am looking at switching to the mark 3 which is of similar standard to k1, but af/seeing an illuminated focus point/even slightly bigger is very good.

How shallow DOF are you working with here? Are you having more trouble with the K-1 than you did your previous camera, and if so, which camera was that?

Besides coping with a larger sensor size, I find myself able to shoot portraits with a shallow depth of field without issue.

[beholder3]

At a photo shoot yesterday in which i was using my k1 up against quite a few people who were using 5d mark 3's, i noticed just how different the shots turned out. The main difference being that many of mine were soft or out of focus. I realised that single point focus on the k1 is very tough to see through the viewfinder

I happen to own and use both K-1 and 5D3, so I guess I can give some comments:

1. Since there have been a small handful but very loudmouthed whiners on forums crying for a constant red lighting of AF points in the viewfinder it is worth mentioning again that two large generations of 5D3 and 5D4 users never found this to be an significant issue, since you read very little about it on Canon user side. Much less than in Pentax-whiner-land at least even though probably 20x more Canon users are subjected to this (by sheer market share).
   Add to this the fact that on the K-1 you can simply press the AF mode button to get a constant red lighting on, which is completely impossible on those Canons, so their implementation is much behind the Pentax one.
   Thus be prepared to loose functionality there.
2. Generally the visibility of both black and red AF point LCD overlays are absolutely the same between both models.
3. The actual size of the AF points on both models also is the same (and on both models the black rectangle is about 1/6 of the actual area covered by the AF points). See the image in here: Google-Ergebnis für https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/images/articles/spot_af/spotaf_singlept_eos1dx.jpg
4. The one advantage you have on a 5D3 is the option to choose a smaller version of the AF point (they call it "spot AF", which means a different thing in pentax land). You can target smaller things with it. But: It also is less accurate than normal AF points in many scenarios.

[UncleVanya]

I happen to own and use both K-1 and 5D3, so I guess I can give some comments:

1. Since there have been a small handful but very loudmouthed whiners on forums crying for a constant red lighting of AF points in the viewfinder it is worth mentioning again that two large generations of 5D3 and 5D4 users never found this to be an significant issue, since you read very little about it on Canon user side. Much less than in Pentax-whiner-land at least even though probably 20x more Canon users are subjected to this (by sheer market share).
   Add to this the fact that on the K-1 you can simply press the AF mode button to get a constant red lighting on, which is completely impossible on those Canons, so their implementation is much behind the Pentax one.
   Thus be prepared to loose functionality there.
2. Generally the visibility of both black and red AF point LCD overlays are absolutely the same between both models.
3. The actual size of the AF points on both models also is the same (and on both models the black rectangle is about 1/6 of the actual area covered by the AF points). See the image in here: Google-Ergebnis für https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/images/articles/spot_af/spotaf_singlept_eos1dx.jpg
4. The one advantage you have on a 5D3 is the option to choose a smaller version of the AF point (they call it "spot AF", which means a different thing in pentax land). You can target smaller things with it. But: It also is less accurate than normal AF points in many scenarios.

The grass always seems greener... thanks for the detailed insider view on both cameras.

[dcpropilot]

I've also had difficultly using focus points in low light (I don't consider myself a loudmouth whiner).

[rawr]

I've also had difficultly using focus points in low light (I don't consider myself a loudmouth whiner).

I personally don't have much problem with the AF point visibility.

But if Ricoh simply extended the duration of the AF point illumination by 5 or 10 seconds after shutter button half-press, or just left the AF point illumination on while the shutter-button was half-pressed, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Probably not hard to achieve via firmware either.
They could modify the existing camera menu from this:

Menu > C2 > 9. Viewfinder Light > Auto | On | Off

to something like this:

Menu > C2 > 9. Viewfinder Light: Auto | On | Duration | Off

and add a sub-menu like:

> Viewfinder Light Duration: 5 sec | 10 sec | While Shutter Button Pressed

Alternatively, Ricoh engineers could simply modify the current 'Auto' setting to considerably extend the period of AF point illumination when the camera meter detects that the level of scene lighting is low.

[stevebrot]

Since there have been a small handful but very loudmouthed whiners on forums crying for a constant red lighting of AF points in the viewfinder it is worth mentioning again that two large generations of 5D3 and 5D4 users never found this to be an significant issue, since you read very little about it on Canon user side. Much less than in Pentax-whiner-land at least even though probably 20x more Canon users are subjected to this (by sheer market share).

Thanks for the useful and very pertinent post.

The statement copied above is accurate, but perhaps not applicable to the OP. The OP is not a whiner per se, just uncertain as to where technology ends and technique begins and who appears to be anxious to fast-track good results as a portrait/wedding photographer. A review of their post history* reveals some fogginess regarding DOF, naive expectations regarding focus, and a fairly low level of photographic understanding in general. In a scant two and a half months, the OP has been both a new K-3 owner and a new K-1 owner after moving to Pentax as a dissatisfied former D750 user. Now the 5D III holds promise as a camera that might provide the proper technology mix and perhaps it will. I don't offer these observations as a criticism of the OP or an indictment of any kind, just a bit of background on the OP's journey.

There are different approaches to any endeavor and some work better for some people than for others. Sometimes it takes several purchases to figure out that there are few "magic bullets" in the world of photography, that quality of gear is uniformly high, and that some of the best work is done without a high degree of automation.


Steve

* I routinely review post history for users who post troubleshooting requests and/or who have complaints regarding usability or poor results.

[beholder3]

Thanks for the useful and very pertinent post.

The statement copied above is accurate, but perhaps not applicable to the OP.

That part of my answer was intentionally not addressed directly at the OP at all, since he made no explicit references to darkness and the red lighting feature. I did and do assume he was talking about normal light black af point display mainly (which is just the same in both cameras).
I just included that part as additional information since it fits to the overall topic of "viewfinder overlay".

I do fully support any option models for any feature and rawr's suggestion is a very well thought out one for that. I have it covered here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/322777-thread-co...-requests.html in a more simple way for quite some time already.