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03-02-2017, 09:10 AM   #16
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lol, at first I was like "hmm this sounds interesting!', then checked the link with the guide, saw a scalpel involved, and instantly lost interest xD With my luck, i'd poke a hole right through that thing

---------- Post added 03-02-17 at 10:15 AM ----------

Is there some sort of a dummy guide regarding the types of screens? I've used the split prism one with my old Zenit before, and my Yashica, that seems to simplify manual focusing significantly. But there are other types I've never experienced before (Focusing Screen). Also, what are downsides of installing this in a camera?

03-02-2017, 09:32 AM - 2 Likes   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Also, what are downsides of installing this in a camera?
Hmmmmm...
  • Loss of consistent spot metering when center focus aide is present
  • Potential for compromised metering in general*
  • Aftermarket screen may not be as bright as original equipment
  • Some designs (e.g. S-type) dim abruptly with slower lenses
  • It is very likely that the new screen will require shim adjustment for accuracy
There may be other issues as well that I have forgotten. Most of the time, the swap goes well for screens purchased from a reputable source, though I should mention that focusingscreen-dot-com does not warranty for metering or other performance issues with your camera/lens/subjects.


Steve

* As noted in other posts, Canon provides menu settings to match metering to their various screen offerings. Whether and how much metering is effected depends on the meter, focus aides, grid treatment, and overall screen brightness compared to the original equipment. I had a negative experience with the Type-S screen and laser-cut grid lines with my K-3. I place the blame on the very bright grid lines. Other users with the same screen on the K-5 had no problems.

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-02-2017 at 12:29 PM.
03-02-2017, 11:18 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I'm interested! I have a number of MF lenses and found the Katzeye on my K-30 nailed manual focus much better and quicker than say, the EVF on my Sony A7.
So have I. Very interesting!

QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
If they now have the S-type for K-1 I'm going to give it a try
I hope soon I am able to... I had Canon focusing screens for manuel lenses with Canon EOS 5D/5DMKII/6D and it worked very well according to my criterias although it adds some darkness in optical view finder..

QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I found the Katzeye screens better than the focusingxcreen brand and just purchased on for my D800 and used it for a week and switched back, I was not pleased with the Q of the focusingscreen brand
I hope they create some for Pentax K-1 users... Let us see.. 😏 😓
03-02-2017, 11:28 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Hmmmmm...
  • Loss of consistent spot metering when center focus aide is present
  • Potential for compromised metering in general*
  • Aftermarket screen may not be as bright as original equipment
  • Some designs (e.g. S-type) dim abruptly with slower lenses
  • It is very likely that the new screen will require shim adjustment for accuracy
There may be other issues as well that I have forgotten. Most of the time, the swap goes well for screens purchased from a reputable source, though I should mention that focusingscreen-dot-com does not warranty for metering or other performance issues with your camera/lens/subjects.


Steve

* As noted in other posts, Canon provides menu settings to match metering to their various screen offerings. Whether and how much metering is effected depends on the meter, focus aides, grid treatment, and overall screen brightness compared to the original equipment. I had a negative experience with the Type-S screen and laser-cut grid lines with my K-3. Other users with the same screen on the K-5 had no problems.
Ugh, that's a lot to compromise for vintage glass I use occasionally Not for me)

03-02-2017, 12:23 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Ugh, that's a lot to compromise for vintage glass I use occasionally Not for me)
Ha! I should probably have put emphasis on the waffle words For me it is not a matter of supporting vintage non-AF glass as it is attaining consistent hand-held focus with fast lenses. I bought my first Katz Eye because neither viewfinder AF nor focus confirm using PDAF nor manual focus using the stock focus screen were delivering the results I knew the lenses were capable of. The difference was night and day with the replacement screen. I must qualify, however, by saying that the Katz Eye required NO shim adjustment on the K10D. Doing that adjustment without live view would have been a royal pain. On current model Pentax cameras some shimming is usually required.

Just about every time I hand my camera off to a curious photographer friend, there is a quick "wow" comment regarding the screen followed by "where can I get one". As mentioned above, it is a real shame that Katz Eye is no longer in business. The good people at focusingscreen-dot-com make an excellent product that is superior to screens sold by eBay merchants. My suggestions from their lineup are the K3 (Nikon) and S-type. Another option might be Beattie Intenscreen. Although they don't support any current model 35mm or APS-C SLRs, rumor has it that they do offer custom fabrication. According to their brochure, they also offer their "T-Mog" service to apply their screen brightening treatment to non-Beattie screens. A K3 screen with the T-Mog treatment may well approximate a Katz Eye with Opti-brite.


Steve
03-02-2017, 12:29 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ha! I should probably have put emphasis on the waffle words For me it is not a matter of supporting vintage non-AF glass as it is attaining consistent hand-held focus with fast lenses. I bought my first Katz Eye because neither viewfinder AF nor focus confirm using PDAF nor manual focus using the stock focus screen were delivering the results I knew the lenses were capable of. The difference was night and day with the replacement screen. I must qualify, however, by saying that the Katz Eye required NO shim adjustment on the K10D. Doing that adjustment without live view would have been a royal pain. On current model Pentax cameras some shimming is usually required.

Just about every time I hand my camera off to a curious photographer friend, there is a quick "wow" comment regarding the screen followed by "where can I get one". As mentioned above, it is a real shame that Katz Eye is no longer in business. The good people at focusingscreen-dot-com make an excellent product that is superior to screens sold by eBay merchants. My suggestions from their lineup are the K3 (Nikon) and S-type. Another option might be Beattie Intenscreen. Although they don't support any current model 35mm or APS-C SLRs, rumor has it that they do offer custom fabrication. According to their brochure, they also offer their "T-Mog" service to apply their screen brightening treatment to non-Beattie screens. A K3 screen with the T-Mog treatment may well approximate a Katz Eye with Opti-brite.


Steve
Oh god, this photography thing never gets easy xD too much to learn and buy. I will bookmark this thread, see if in a year or two I'll reach the level I might need something like this
03-02-2017, 03:16 PM   #22
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In my experience Nikon F6A screens are better than Canon S Type screens.
Focusing on matte screens will never be as precise as focusing on split-image screens. However, almost all split-image screens have a very big area of focusing aids in the middle of a frame which is not very convenient. On the contrary, the Nikon F6A screen has a very small split-image area which is great! The only problem I had with the K-3 and the F6A screen is that focusing was so precise I wasn't able to find the right shim. The best focus was gained when the image in the center was still a little bit split.
03-02-2017, 03:55 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Some designs (e.g. S-type) dim abruptly with slower lenses
Can you expand on this a bit Steve?

I have vague recollections that the S type fitted to my K5 appeared darker overall, but when I installed the supplied shim the ability to focus with wide apertures more than justified any percieved dimming. I just don't recall it 'dimming abruptly' when I stopped down a lens. I mostly used my Zeiss lenses at apertures f5.6 and faster, and on a tripod I was likely using LV more than the viewfinder, particularly with the Sima f4-5.6 which I mostly used at f8-f11.

I think I have to grab the K5 out again and have a look myself this weekend, but any extra feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Tas

03-02-2017, 04:11 PM   #24
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It will be interesting to see how this works out since the markings are on the overlay and may conflict with the design of replacement screens. Still you can turn off the overlay but what else do you lose by doing that?
03-02-2017, 05:31 PM   #25
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So far I'm quite able to focus manual lenses using the stock K-1 screen, but I'm slow. I have to Zero-in by moving back and forth as I do with older film cameras' matte/collar screens. I'm not bothered by that - I'm not shooting action.

On the K-3 (which I sold) the KatzEye with OptiBrite, split spot and Thirds grid was fabulous - but that was an APSc viewfinder.
03-02-2017, 05:49 PM - 2 Likes   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Can you expand on this a bit Steve?
My recollection is that the S-type screen was acceptably bright down to f/2.8, but distinctly dim at f/4 with a distinct cusp at about f/3.5 when used with my Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 (C). The DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 was not really usable. The Canon documentation for the Super Precision Matte ("S") screens reads like this:
QuoteQuote:
A Super Precision Matte screen such as the Ec-S is optimized for wide-aperture lenses, specifically those that have a maximum aperture of f/1.8 – f/2.8. It’s best suited for users who frequently manually focus in dim light with fast lenses. Areas that are slightly out of focus will appear more out of focus, making it easier to tell when focus is right-on. Note, however, that with lenses that have a maximum aperture smaller than f/2.8, a Super Precision Matte screen will appear dark and grainy. (Emphasis supplied...original PDF attached)
At apertures f/2.8 and wider the S-type is nicely bright with a distinct pop when focus is attained. The "pop" is due to tuning that provides superior ability to detect an out-focus-condition in the target aperture range of f/1.8 - f/2.8. I did not evaluate at f/1.4 or f/1.2. At narrower apertures the ability to focus is still quite good, but the view is a bit dim.

Despite the dim view with most of my zooms, I remain enthusiastic about the screen and would have kept mine except that the optional laser-etched AF zone lines stayed bright even as the matte field grew dim. As a result, metering was incredibly sketchy with the Sigma 17-70, my main walk-around on the K-3. I sold the screen at a deep discount to a forum member for use on a K-5 with a strong caution regarding the metering with no post-sale complaints.


Steve
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File Type: pdf CDLC_FocusingScreens_QuickGuide.pdf (545.8 KB, 87 views)
03-02-2017, 05:54 PM - 1 Like   #27
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Of course the obvious conclusion to all of this, is that it's a crying shame that Pentax doesn't offer any (useful) alternative focusing screens themselves and that manual focus shooters have to rely on hacking up Canon and Nikon screens...
03-02-2017, 07:41 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Of course the obvious conclusion to all of this, is that it's a crying shame that Pentax doesn't offer any (useful) alternative focusing screens themselves and that manual focus shooters have to rely on hacking up Canon and Nikon screens...
Given that the screen on the K-1 is explicitly spec'ed as non-interchangeable, that is not surprising. As for APS-C, four screens are offered to fit most Pentax models since the K-7. Two additional models are available to fit the K10D and K20D. Unfortunately, all of those have the standard bright matte field and none have focus aides.

Addendum: For what its worth, I don't believe that Nikon offers optional screens for any of their current model cameras with the exception of the F6 35mm film SLR.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-02-2017 at 08:30 PM.
03-02-2017, 08:28 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My recollection is that the S-type screen was acceptably bright down to f/2.8, but distinctly dim at f/4 with a distinct cusp at about f/3.5 when used with my Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 (C). The DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 was not really usable. The Canon documentation for the Super Precision Matte ("S") screens reads like this:

At apertures f/2.8 and wider the S-type is nicely bright with a distinct pop when focus is attained. The "pop" is due to tuning that provides superior ability to detect an out-focus-condition in the target aperture range of f/1.8 - f/2.8. I did not evaluate at f/1.4 or f/1.2. At narrower apertures the ability to focus is still quite good, but the view is a bit dim.

Despite the dim view with most of my zooms, I remain enthusiastic about the screen and would have kept mine except that the optional laser-etched AF zone lines stayed bright even as the matte field grew dim. As a result, metering was incredibly sketchy with the Sigma 17-70, my main walk-around on the K-3. I sold the screen at a deep discount to a forum member for use on a K-5 with a strong caution regarding the metering with no post-sale complaints.


Steve
Thank you very much for that Steve, the Canon brief on their focus screens is a handy tool and good descriptor of the different attributes of each screen. It certainly reinforces the importance of identifying which one is most suitable for your style of photography and lenses. I'll grab out the K5 and have a play with the S screen again, to remind myself of what I preferred about that screen and whether I was just missing the dimming effect in the way I was using the viewfinder. At the moment I feel the benefit it gave me with the Zeiss lenses that I like to use is worth pursuing with the K-1. I also have four of the new D-FA's so I can check the screen with those too. I'm not planning on doing this before May so I've plenty of time to reassess before commiting to a change, and the info / feedback you've provided will assist me in making that decision, so thanks again.

Tas
03-02-2017, 11:59 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Of course the obvious conclusion to all of this, is that it's a crying shame that Pentax doesn't offer any (useful) alternative focusing screens themselves and that manual focus shooters have to rely on hacking up Canon and Nikon screens...
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Given that the screen on the K-1 is explicitly spec'ed as non-interchangeable, that is not surprising. As for APS-C, four screens are offered to fit most Pentax models since the K-7. Two additional models are available to fit the K10D and K20D. Unfortunately, all of those have the standard bright matte field and none have focus aides.

Addendum: For what its worth, I don't believe that Nikon offers optional screens for any of their current model cameras with the exception of the F6 35mm film SLR.


Steve
The reason for not offering screens for the K-1 is that the various screen for previous cameras vary the by etching or markings on them. Since this is handled by the viewfinder overlay there is no need to have different screens, or so the thought goes. Since no screens are officially offered to interchange the factory screen with I suppose that makes it non-interchangealbe.
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