[camyum]

only a limited number of Pentaxians are holding off buying.

What makes you so sure about that?
Any insights into the international economic chamber of camera makers?
Any databases at your hands, that tell you where potential buyers may live, that bought a K-7, K-5, K-5II, K-3II and since that time only looted FF lenses but still not layed their hands on a K-1?
If so, I am sure that all the other forum members would be interested in the numbers.

Fact is: I already read a few times that people are waiting for a successor to the K-1...
And since most people with a last bit of sense abstain from postin on the internet(because mostly its like talking to a wall) i guess,
there could be loads of pentax owners that wait for the successor to the K-1...
Since most of us saw modern technology evolving, when we grew up, we know how things grow and that the early adopters suffer the most.
(that applies to nearly every sector)
... so rest assured... there are still enough people on hold.

(What doesnt mean we will see a second FF in the very near future.)

My educated guess: When Firmware development for K-1 stalls, you will have to wait 6 months more and then the successor to the K-1 will appear-
Or we may see a second line that is not dedicated to High-resolution stills but more to sports or photo reportage(better burst, less MP)

[Bob 256]

What makes you so sure about that?
Any insights into the international economic chamber of camera makers?
Any databases at your hands, that tell you where potential buyers may live, that bought a K-7, K-5, K-5II, K-3II and since that time only looted FF lenses but still not layed their hands on a K-1?
If so, I am sure that all the other forum members would be interested in the numbers.

Fact is: I already read a few times that people are waiting for a successor to the K-1...
And since most people with a last bit of sense abstain from postin on the internet(because mostly its like talking to a wall) i guess,
there could be loads of pentax owners that wait for the successor to the K-1...
Since most of us saw modern technology evolving, when we grew up, we know how things grow and that the early adopters suffer the most.
(that applies to nearly every sector)
... so rest assured... there are still enough people on hold.

(What doesnt mean we will see a second FF in the very near future.)

My educated guess: When Firmware development for K-1 stalls, you will have to wait 6 months more and then the successor to the K-1 will appear-
Or we may see a second line that is not dedicated to High-resolution stills but more to sports or photo reportage(better burst, less MP)

Hey - don't get miffed. I said "limited number" - not "no one", and I'm not sure of any numbers (did I say I was?) - it's only my perception based on comments in this forum and elsewhere. Of course there are Pentaxians who are waiting for a successor to the K-1, and there will be Pentaxians who will wait for the successor to that camera, ad infinitum, but for those who wanted and can afford a FF Pentax camera like the K-1, I personally don't believe too many are going to "hold off". If the K-1 had poor reviews, that would be another story, but the performance of the K-1 is fairly outstanding.

I not saying that there won't be a successor or that you'll have to wait "years" to see it. I'm just stating that it won't be tomorrow and those who hold off are missing out on what the current K-1 has to offer. Same conundrum as buying a computer - if you wait for something better, you'll never own a computer.

The bottom line is that Pentax won't release a successor just because people are holding off. They will come up with the next version when they see it to be profitable (more profitable than continuing the K-1 line). If you believe "holding off" will produce the next generation of the K-1 faster, you don't understand what a business model is. As long as the present K-1 is selling well and making a profit for Ricoh, chances are lower that a new model is going to show up - not that it isn't in development - just that it most likely won't be introduced during that time. And, you are probably quite correct - when firmware updates slow to a halt, the next gen will probably be near (but I would really hope that Ricoh continues to support the previous model through firmware updates even after the next gen is available - that's one of my criteria for staying with a company label).

[camyum]

Hey - don...

A)I personally don't believe too many are going to "hold off". If the K-1 had poor reviews, that would be another story, but the performance of the K-1 is fairly outstanding.

B)Same conundrum as buying a computer - if you wait for something better, you'll never own a computer.

C)The bottom line is that Pentax won't release a successor just because people are holding off.

D)They will come up with the next version when they see it to be profitable (more profitable than continuing the K-1 line).

E)If you believe "holding off" will produce the next generation of the K-1 faster, you don't understand what a business model is.

F)And, you are probably quite correct - when firmware updates slow to a halt, the next gen will probably be near

G)(but I would really hope that Ricoh continues to support the previous model through firmware updates even after the next gen is available - that's one of my criteria for staying with a company label).

hmm... actually you repeated what i said... despite that you stay with saying there are not so many...

let's look at the points:

A: So you keep your stance and say that you dont believe many people would "hold off"...
I respect your oppinion, BUT:

To really believe that, one has to ignore that the K-1 is a camera made for
1)
pixel hungry Full-Frame enthusiasts that may not even have an idea about what exactly the advantages of having full frame are, that would immediately buy a Hassy or a 645Z if they would have the money.
(same people, that still believe, the DoF would be more shallow on FF where Depth of Field <or the field of sharpness to enlighten the ones who want to be enlightened> actually is bigger<deeper> on FF <given same lens, at the same distance focusing the same and shooting at the same aperture>then on crop. If you dont believe use a DoF calculator.)
2)
studio photographers or landscape photography professionals.

looking at its sluggish AF-performance and a burst mode,
that i can nearly outperform with a 23 years old camera(Z-1p)!!!! - there just is no way around that at least point 2) ...really hits the mark.


So actually "The First"(as i like to call it)is a camera that is not made for people that need gear which is fast, delivers good burst rates and who are up to catching "moments", but for people that think more megapixels will give them better photos.
(What the K-1 will actually do indeed, under calm conditions like when shooting in a studio or doing landscapes... it really is a fine cam for what its made)

Thing is:
You actually leave out all the people that bought K-5II and K-3 bodies for what they are... Pro-DSLRs that shoot fast and deliver crisp images.

I shot weddings with K-3 ... and i would say, that i really would not exchange it for a K-1 even if you would give me one for free.
Dont get me wrong the K-1 is a fine piece of kit, that delivers images with an impressive dynamic range, but I would use the K-1 for nothing more than studio. (I already used that cam-rent- so I know what I am talking about).

And since I dont believe, that I am the only guy on earth that knows how useful a fast burst is at shooting events, sports etc.:
There is no other option for me than to believe,
"there are still a lot of people out there with Pentax glass, that wait for something that can hold up to the feeling of the K-3/K-3II bodies or surpass it."

B:
B, tells me you want to imply that I (personally) would think that i could speed things up by not doing anything. = WRONG
--> especially with that comparison you did not do yourself a favor because:
FYI: I worked for nearly a decade with a MacBook Pro from 2007,...
i waited until i saw real improvements in things that matter and make a computer do its work faster and better:
1-evolution of SSD tech --> (500MB/s became a "quasi"-standard around 2015-2016)
2-evolution of RAM --> DDR4
3-extremely fast FSB speed --> (front side bus)
4-a socket for prosumer CPUs that will live a bit longer - "2011-3"
5-a CPU with amazing capabilities --> 12-Core Xeon

So know i have a System that is what i want and what i need, without a compromise.(so that is a system that shoulders a real big LR-lib with more RAW-files than you can ever imagine)
That is because i avoided the classical "ants in the pants"-failure ... and i think i will keep it that way, especially when i pay REAL money for a pro-grade Full-Frame.
The K-1 just doesnt fit my needs, so I will wait, until i feel the right product is there.

C:
for that i want to refer to my answer to "B", and want to add: no i dont believe that, i will just wait until performance increases in a way so it rectifys a price that may be 2000-3000bucks - so again: when the right piece of kit is there, I will buy it.
(so will others)

D: That may be true, but may be not true. Fact is, Ricoh didn't 100% believe in the success of the K-1.
Now they feel the upwind, are in the middle of the game and see that even some professionals, that do great studio or landscape artwork love their tech.
This situation literally is called: ATARI --- so i estimate a 30% chance that we will see a successor(or companion) much sooner than most people think we will.

E: again i really need you to read my answers to B and C so you understand that you are painting a wrong picture of me here.


F: thank you for letting me have at least that one.

G: You will for sure see minor updates to keep compatibility with lenses newer than the K-1 but I am pretty sure no new functions will be added,
because otherwise i would have to say:
You don't understand what a business model is.

[MarkJerling]

I think, like so many speculative threads, this one has outlived its usefulness as it has, like all the others before it, degraded into an argumentative tit for tat which serves no useful purpose.